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HEARINGS,
BEFORE THE . •>
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
FEBRUAllY 25, 28, AND 27, 1953
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
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PlTB L I G
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
30172 WASHINGTON : 1953
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Boston Public Library
Superintendent of Documents
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman
UKRKARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania
DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri
KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California
GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee
Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel
Louis J. Russell, Chief Investigator
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Cleric
n
CONTENTS
February 25, 1953 : Page
Testimony of Robert Gorham Davis 1
February 26, 1953 :
Testimony of —
Daniel J. Boorstin 47
Wendell Hinkle Furry 62
Granville Hicks 95
February 27, 1953 :
Testimony of Barrows Dunham 117
ni
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
WEDNESDAY, FEBRXJARY 25, 1953
United States House of Kepresentatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
PUBLIC HEARING
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to notice,
at 10 : 35 a. m., in the caucus room, Old House Office Building, Hon.
Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy,
Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde
Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., committee counsel;
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk ; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator;
Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; Donald T. Appell and Earl
L. Fuoss, investigators.
Mr. Velde. The committee will come to order.
Let the record show that all of the committee members are present
and a quorum of the full committee is present for the purposes of this
hearing.
Mr, Counsel, do you have a witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. I don't see the witness present. Mr. Robert Gorham
Davis.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, will you raise your right hand ?
In the testimony you are to give before this committee do you
solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Davis. I do:
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, it is our understanding that you are a mem-
ber of the teaching profession. In opening this hearing, it is well to
make clear to you and others just what the nature of this investigation
is.
From time to time, the committee has investigated Communists and
Communist activities within the entertainment, newspaper, and labor
fields, and also within the professions and the Government. In no
instance has the work of the committee taken on the character of an
investigation of entertainment organizations, newspapers, labor
unions, the professions, or the Government, as such, and it is not now
the purpose of this committee to investigate education or educational
institutions, as such. The committee will follow its long-established
policy of investigating Communists and Communist activities wher-
ever it has substantial evidence of its existence.
2 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
When investigating Communists and Communist activities within
certain labor unions, the committee was met with the charge by alarm-
ists and partisans within that field that the committee was a group
of Fascists and the enemy of labor, and that the real purpose of the
investigation was to destroy labor unions. Similar and equally un-
founded charges have been made with regard to this hearing. In
pursuing its work within the field of labor, the committee carefully
refrained from taking any part in any internal disputes within labor
or any disputes between employers and employees and confined its
activities to the ascertainment and identification of leaders in the labor
unions who were members of the Communist Party and were using
their influence to promote the objectives of the Communist Party
within the field of labor, and to the character, extent, and objects of
their Communist Party activities. The work of the committee in this
respect has met with such growing success that many labor unions are
now actively engaged in eliminating from positions of influence union
officials known to be members of the Communist Party and engaged in
Communist activities.
The purpose of the committee in investigating Communists and
Communist activities within the field of education is no greater and
no less than its purpose in investigating Communists and Communist
activities Avithin the field of labor or any other field.
The committee is charged by the Congress with the responsibility
of investigating the extent, character, and objects of un-American
propaganda activities in the United States, the diffusion within the
United States of subversive and un-American propaganda that is in-
stigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Con-
stitution and all other questions in relation thereto that would aid
Congress in any necessary remedial legislation.
It has been fully established in testimony before congressional com-
mittees and before the courts of our land that the Communist Party
of the United States is part of an international conspiracy which is
being used as a tool or weapon by a foreign power to promote its own
foreign policy and which has for its object the overthrow of the gov-
ernments of all non-Communist countries, resorting to the use of force
and violence, if necessary. This organization cannot live except by
the promulgation and diffusion of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda and in the view of this committee every person who remains
a member of it is contributing to the ultimate accomplishment of its
objectives. Communism and Communist activities cannot be investi-
gated in a vacuum. The investigation must, of necessity, relate to in-
dividuals and, therefore, this morning the committee is calling you as
a person known by this committee to have been at one time a member
of the Communist Party.
The question is sometimes asked whether it is necessary to call as
witnesses those who are no longer members of the Communist Party.
It is quite obvious for a number of reasons that the answer should be
"Yes." Such witnesses add immeasurably to the sum total of the
knowledge of the character, extent, and objects of Communist activi-
ties. The testimony of former Communist Party members resulted
virtually in immobilizing the Communist Party in Hollywood. These
witnesses considered it their patriotic duty to answer under oath
questions relating to their knowledge of Communist infiltration into
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 3
the organizations of which they had been members, and to their knowl-
edge of other Communist Party activities. Witnesses from the Screen
Writers' Guild, the directors' guilds, labor unions, the legal profession,
the medical profession, and other groups have made a great contribu-
tion to the defense of their country by disclosing to this committee
facts within their knowledge.
Former Communist Party membership, in the view of the commit-
tee, should not be held against an individual whose testimony admit-
ting former Communist Party membership has that character of
trustworthiness which convinces one that he has completely and finally
terminated his Communist Party membership and has been given in
all good faith. It is of great aid in determining who remain in the
Communist Party to ascertain who have left it.
The committee was greatly concerned with the evidence developed
in the Plollywood hearings with respect to the type of "thought con-
trol" practiced by the Communist Party upon its members. Screen
writers were told how and what they should write. The testimony
of Budd Schulberg and Edward Dmytryk demonstrate the point as
clearly as laboratory experiments would prove a chemical reaction.
The same influence was found to exist in the field of art and music.
An objective study of this testimony will lead to the inescapable con-
clusion that it is the Communist Party which is the enemy of academic
freedom.
The committee is equally concerned with the opportunities that the
Communist Party has to wield its influence upon members of the
teaching profession and students through Communists who are mem-
bers of the teaching profession. Therefore, the objective of this
investigation is to ascertain the character, extent and objects of
Communist Party activities when such activities are carried on by
members of the teaching profession who are subject to the directives
and discipline of the Communist Party.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner,
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT GORHAM DAVIS
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Davis, will you state your full name, please ?
Mr, Davis. Robert Gorham Davis.
Mr. Tavenner. Now when and where were you born, Mr. Davis?
Mr. Davis. In Cambridge, Mass., June 8, 1908.
Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ?
Mr. Davis. I teach at Smith College.
Mr. Fr^izier. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr, Frazier.
Mr, Frazier. I want to ask Mr. Davis whether or not he wants to
be represented by counsel. I think we should ask him — or whether he
had counsel.
Mr. Velde. All right. Ascertain that, Mr. Counsel.
Mr, Tavenner. Do you have counsel present with you in the hear-
ing room?
Mr. Davis. No ; I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. It is the practice of the committee to encourage the
use of counsel by witnesses if they desire. So I would like to ask you
if you desire counsel present ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I do not.
4 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, what your
educational training has been ?
Mr. Davis. I was educated in the public schools of Cambridge ; went
to Harvard as a scholarship student in the class of '29; received my
master's degi'ee in 1930; returned to Harvard for further graduate
work in 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain at Harvard in 1933,
when you went there in 1933 'i
Mr. Davis. I taught 10 years until 1943.
Mr, Tavenner. I want to ask you at this stage whether you object
to the cameras, the photographs that are being taken, and I believe
the movies which are being taken?
Mr, Davis. No ; I do not.
Mr. Clardy, You understand you have a perfect right to do so if
you wish ?
Mr, Davis, Yes,
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state, please, what your employment has
been since the completion of your education?
Mr, Davis, I taught at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute from 1930
to 1933 ; was an assistant at Harvard from 1933 to 1934 ; an instruc-
tor from 1934 to 1940 ; a faculty instructor from 1940 to 1943, I went
to Smith as a visiting lecturer and was made an associate professor
in 1945 and full professor in 1952,
Mr. Tavenner. Professor Davis, are you now a member of the Com-
munist Partv ?
Mr. Davis. I am not,
Mr, Tavenner. Have you ever been a member?
Mr. Davis, Yes.
Mr, Tavenner, Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you became a member ; how long you remained
a member; and the circumstances under which you left the party?
Mr, Davis. I joined the Communist Party in January of 1937, I
left the Communist Party in the fall of 1939, after the pact between
the Germans and the Russians,
Mr, TA^^NNER. Since 1939 have you consistently been an opponent
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. I have.
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you state more in detail the circumstances
under which you became a member of the party ?
Mr. Davis. Do you wish to know the influences that led me to join?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I think we should have the entire picture
for the benefit that it may be to others.
Mr, Davis, Well, I should say that ideologically there were three
elements: First, the fact of the depression. To my generation it
seemed intolerable that men should be unemployed; that food and
cotton should be destroyed while people were hungry in a country as
advanced technologically as the United States, and with such tre-
mendous natural resources. We sought to understand the reason for
the depression, for the waste of human and natural resources, and
were led because of the spirit of the thirties to concern ourselves with
the Marxist explanation.
One reason why Marxism appealed to my generation is because we
were products of the twenties, educationally — a period of uncertainty
and skepticism, Marxism seemed to offer a positive solution — an
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 5
affirmative philosophy. We also had been taught that the First World
War accomplished nothing despite the 4 years of suffering and slaugh-
ter. We were determined that another fruitless war of that kind
should not occur.
Finally, we were very much aware of the growing menace of Hit-
lerism, and it seemed that Hitlerism could be stopped internationally,
and a developing Fascist movement, or what might turn into a Fascist
movement, in this country, could be stopped only by organizing a very
broad, united front — and this the Communist Party purported to do.
They did seem to be taking the lead against Hitlerism.
As you remember, this was the period of the movement for col-
lective security in the League of Nations. This was also the period of
the Spanish Civil War, when the democracies seemed to be fighting
against the armed forces of Hitler and Mussolini in Spain.
All these influences converging made me feel before I went into the
party that it was my idea to aline myself with this leadership.
I discovered in the 2 years which followed that I had made a mis-
take, but my break did not come finally until after the Hitler-Molotov
pact, which initiated the Second World War.
I left then not only because the shift of the line led me into a position
which was politically and morally intolerable, but also because I had
had such experience of the intrigues and duplicity that are inseparable
from Communist Party membership with the requirement that one
critically defend the Soviet Union, that as a person of morality and
sincerity I could remain in that position no longer.
I not only broke with the party, but increasingly in the years that
have followed have I felt it necessary to fight the influence of the
Communist Party in those areas where I could be most effective.
Mr. Clardy. And you regard your appearance here today as falling
in that category, I take it ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. It is an unpleasant duty, but one I feel I must
accept.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have the feeling during the period of your
membership in the Communist Party that the Communist Party was
being used as a tool by a foreign power for the advancement of its
own foreign policy?
Mr. Davis. That was less clear at the time because the Russian poli-
cy then — the policy of collective security to which I refer — seemed
an effective policy against fascism; and, therefore, not only did I
accept it, but as you know, many liberals and progressives were ready
at that time to unite with the Communist Party because it did seem
to be working for peace and against fascism.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your view change as a result of subsequent
events ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. The shift of policy after 1939 and the rapidity with
which the Communist Party in this country fell in line with the Rus-
sian policy, even though they didn't understand it, made it quite clear
that they were acting for the Soviet Union ; that they were in a cer-
tain sense Soviet nationalists and not working for the broader inter-
ests of the American people.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you stated that you became a member of
the Communist Party in September of 1937?
Mr. Davis. No. I believe it was January.
Mr. Tavenner, In January of 1937 ?
6 COMIVIITNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Davis. Sometime in the middle of that winter.
Mr. Ta\'enner. How- were you emph)ye(l at that time ?
Mr. Davis. I was teachinc: at Harvard.
Mr. Ta\tenner. What type of a <>roup of Connnunists were you as-
sigrned to upon joining the party?
Mr. Davis. It was a very small group. I think tlie active members
were no more than 6 or 7 at that time and they comprised 2 or 3 per-
sons connected with Harvard and some townspeople.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Was it the type of an organization which has been
frequently referred to as a neighborhood group ?
Mr. Davis. No. I think it had a rather more special connection
than that. I think most of the people in it were professionals, or the
wives of professionals in academics.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of that par-
ticular group?
Mr. Davis. That is the only group I ever belonged to, but it changed
its character after a few months.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain that, please?
Mv. Davis. Because of the temper of the time more teachers were
coming into the Communist Party and, therefore, the group was made
exclusively a Harvard teachere' or graduate student group.
Mr. Kearney. How many members were in that group when you
first joined?
Mr. Davis. I remember at the first meeting I went to — it is a very
dim image now, but as I say, I don't think there were more than 7
or 8, or 6 or 7 people there.
Mr. IvEARNEY. Did the membership increase as time went on ?
Mr. Davis. It increased, but I don't believe that it ever comprised
more than 15. I would say that was the maximum.
Mr. Kearney. Was the membership of this organization that you
at that time joined — were they mostly confined to membership in the
neighborhood surrounding Harvard, with Harvard teachers?
Mr. Davis. As I say, they were — after a few months they became
either exclusively Harvard teachers or graduate students at Harvard,
or fellows.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, you asked him to what group he
was assigned, Mr. Kearney. Could you elaborate on that? Did you
join somewhere else or did you just join that group ?
Mr. Davis. What I did was talk to a person whom I assumed to be
a Communist Party member, and he invited me to the meeting.
Mr. Kearney. He invited you to the Communist Party meeting?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. And you assumed that he was a member ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. Did you later discover that he was a Communist?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was his name ?
Mr. Davis. I am not certain at this distance which of two persons
it was.
Mr. Tavenner. Were both of the persons that you have in mind
persons known to you to be members of- the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Then I will ask you to give the names of both of
them.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 7
Mr. Davis. Louis Harap.
Mr. Ta\T3Nner. Will you spell the last name, please?
Mr. Davis. H-a-r-a-p.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. And I think you should spell the first name.
Mr. DA\^s. L-o-u-i-s.
Mr. Ta\tcnner. If you know what his subsequent connection was
witli the Communist Party I think you should tell us. That is, if
you know of your own knowledge whether he has remained in the
Communist Party for any definite period of time or whether he with-
drew from the party at any time, I would like you to so state.
Mr. Davis. I have no first-hand knowledge. I have read writmg
by him in recent years which would suggest that his tendency had
remained the same.
Mr. Kearney. Is he a professor at Harvard ?
Mr. Davis. No; he was not. He was employed in a very minor
capacity as librarian, I believe, of the jihilosophy librari^.
Mr. Ivearney. Is he still connected in that position?
Mr. Davis. No. He left Harvard many years ago.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know what he is doing now ?
Mr. Davis. I believe he is editor of a magazine.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know the name of the magazine?
Mr. Davis. It is the Jewish Affairs, I believe. Some such magazine.
Mr, Velde. Will you spell that, please ?
Mr. Davis. The name of the magazine ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Davis. Yes. J-e-w-i-s-h A-f-f-a-i-r-s.
Mr. Kearney. He is the editor, you think ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. I think he is editor.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know where that is published?
Mr. Davis. In New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you give us the name of the second person
who may have been the person whom you first interviewed with regard
to joining the Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. William Parry — P-a-r-r-y.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he remained in the Commu-
nist Party for any period of time or whether he is still in the Com-
munist Party, to your knowledge ?
Mr. Davis. I have known nothing of him since, I believe, 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you required to sign a card, or were yoit.
issued a card evidencing your Communist Party membership ?
Mr. Davis. For the purpose of collecting dues the treasurer of the
unit had a group of booldets in which stamps were pasted to show that
the dues had been paid.
Mr. Clardy. You said "the union" ?
Mr. Scherer. Unit.
Mr. Davis. Unit. I'm sorry.
Mr. Clardy. Oh, you said unit. I'm sorry. I can't hear you up
here.
Mr. Dam:s. Do you want me to adjust the microphones?
Mr. Tavenner. Did that card have your name on it ?
Mr. Davis. No. It had either initials or a pseudonym, and the ini-
tials were not actually the initials of the person.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the reason for that ?
S COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Davis. This was a professional unit and professional units were
always particularly protected so that there would be no publicity
which would be harmful to the careers of the individual members.
Mr. Tavenner. By that you mean that your Communist Party mem-
bership was kept secret from the rank-and-file members of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Davis. Yes. To a very large extent.
Mr. Tavenner. And it was in order to preserve that special privilege
of immunity, or immunity, that pseudonyms were used?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your pseudonym ?
Mr. Davis. I don't remember because we simply made up one as
the books were issued and didn't use it in any other connection. It
was purely an aid to memory, so to speak, when the dues were paid.
The treasurer called out the names and the persons identified them-
selves.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the decision to have the names kept secret one
of national policy of the Communist Party in such organizations as
yours, or Avas it the result of a decision of your own group ?
Mr. Davis. This was regular practice, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner. How was that practice and other Communist prac-
tices relaj^ed to your group ?
Mr. Daais. The treasurer was informed by tlie officials what the
practice was and instructed in the use oi thesebooks.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your treasurer at that time ?
Mr. Davis, I can't remember. The officers within the group kept
changing and the membership kept changing. This is, as you kn-ow, 15
years back.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of any Communist Party
functionaries who relayed the instructions and directives from the
Communist Party to your group ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. There was a paid functionary named Hy Gordon.
Mr. Clardy. What was his capacity with the party?
Mr. Davis. He was an official of some sort. I don't know his title,
but he devoted his full time to these activities and was paid some small
salary to which this unit contributed.
Mr. Clardy. He was the chief giver of directions, shall we say?
Mr' Da\t:s. Yes. There also was a girl named Margot Clark.
M-a-r-g-o-t C-1-a-r-k.
Mr. Clardy. Was she a paid functionary also ?
Mr. Davis. No, I don't tjelieve she was a paid functionary, but she
went back and forth between this unit and the officials.
Mr. Taa^nner. Do you recall how Margot Clark was employed at
that time?
Mr. Davis. Then or later she ran a book shop near Harvard Square
called something like The Progressive Book Shop.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she have any other employment during the time
you knew of her Communist Party activities?
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Kearney. Was your group ever addressed by high function-
aries of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. A man named Phil Frankfeld. P-h-i-1
F-r-a-n-k-f-e-l-d.
COAOIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 9
Mr. I^ARNEY. Phil Frankfeld?
Mr. Davis. Phil Frankfeld visited it from time to time.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know where he lives ?
Mr, Davis. Where he lived then ? No ; I don't
Mr. Kearney. Did you discover where he lived later?
Mr. Davis. He has had a very public career since then. He was
involved in one of the trials, I think, at Philadelphia.
Mr. Kearney. I think you are quite correct in assuming he has had
quite a public career.
Did you ever know whether the gentleman in question came from
Baltimore or Washington?
Mr. Davis. It is my impression that he came from Baltimore or
Washington.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the testimony before the committee
shows that he was sent from Philadelphia to the Baltimore area and
was at one time the head of the Communist Party for the Washington
district, which consisted of the District of Columbia and Maryland.
Mr. Walter. Where is he now, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. He was recently convicted at Baltimore along with
others for violation of the Smith Act.
Mr. Kearney. I think he is serving sentence now.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. I think so.
Mv. Scherer. Professor, do j^ou Icnow where Hy Gordon is today ?
Mr. Davis. No. I have never seen him since the thirties.
Mv. Scherer. Do you know where the Clark woman is today ?
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state how frequently the group met ?
]\fr. Davis. During the academic year I think it was once a week.
Certainly it was as often as twice a week.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were these meetings held ?
Mr. Davis. In the apartments of the members.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the business that was con-
ducted at the meetings ?
Mr. Davis. It consisted, as I remember it, of three activities : First,
discussing the policies of organizations to which we belonged, like
the Teachers' Union, or the front organizations, and determining upon
the role that the individual member should play in those organiza-
tions ;
Secondly, the question of Marxist education — organizing study
groups to which teachers would be invited ; and, thirdly, various fund-
raising activities for united front organizations or for the party itself.
^Ir. Tavenner. Let us consider each of those functions in the order
in which you named them.
Now what was the policy of the Communist Party with reference
to your activities in outside organizations ?
Mr. Davis. We were to assume positions of leadership so that their
policies would be as close to the policies desired by the Communist
Party as possible.
Mr. Tavenner. How was that information transmitted to you as
to what organizations you were to infiltrate ?
Mr. Da^t:s. I think it hardly needed to be transmitted, because our
immediate concern was with the Teachers' Union and with organiza-
tions like the [American] League for Peace and Democracy.
10 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. It may be well at this point for you to ^ive us the
names of all the organizations which your cell or group of the Com-
munist Party infiltrated or endeavored to infiltrate.
Mr. Davis. The so-called front organizations change so rapidly that
it is hard for me to remember them. But during the period in which
I was active we were concerned dominantly with the Teachers' Union.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that merely a local union at Harvard, or was
that a national union?
Mr. Davis. It was the national union affiliated with the American
Federation of Teachers, which belonged to the A. F. of L.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what instructions were given you by
the Communist Party, or any functionaries of the Communist Party,
with regard to that particular organization ?
Mr. Davis. I think we were left pretty much to ourselves as far as
the local organization is concerned, because we all read the party
press and were aware of what the general line was. We got the
various publications of the Teachers' Union
Mr, Kearney. But isn't it also true that from time to time you
received instructions from national headquarters on your procedure?
Mr. Davis. Oh, yes. As I say, persons like Frankfeld sat in with
us, but that was on the whole to educate us because the party felt we
were liberals and progressives, and we were not thoroughly grounded
enough — not thoroughly disciplined enough — so that, as I recall these
conversations, they were of a fairly general nature since the persons
who came to visit us were not very well informed about the Teachers'
Union itself.
On a national scale the situation was different. There there was a
Communist Party faction which did receive
Mr. Kearney. Pardon me. Was Frankfeld a member of the teach-
ing profession?
Dr. Davis. No. So far as I know he had no connection with it.
ISIr. Tavenner. You were familiar with the teachings of Lenin on
the subject of the activity of teachers and what they should endeavor
to do, I assume?
Mr. Davis. I have seen a passage quoted often since. I don't recall
it from those days.
Mr. Tavenner. I have before me volume 23 of Lenin and I find at
page 499 this statement:
But today the chief task of those members of the teaching profession who
have taken their stand with the International and the Soviet Government is
to worlc for tlie creation of a wider and, as nearly as possible, an all-embracing
teachers' union.
Mr. Davis. Yes. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. And again on page 500 there is this statement :
Your union should now become a broad teachers' trade-union embracing vast
numbers of teachers ; a union which will resolutely take up its stand on the
Soviet platform and the struggle for socialism by means of a dictatorship of
the proletariat.
You are aware of those purposes and of that thinking of the Com-
munist Party?
INIr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Was that book referring to the teachers in our edu-
cational institutions, or just as representatives?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 11
Mr. Tavenner. This has reference to the teachers' trade-unions
throughout the world and not any one particular country or any one
segment of the country.
Mr. Davis. Of what date are those passages ? Lenin was not speak-
ing of the United States, of course.
Mr. Velde. We hope not.
Mr. Tavenner. What activity did your group engage in which
might be said to have carried out the policy as expressed by Lenin of
assisting in the organization of teachers' trade-union movement which
would be adaptable to the purposes of the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Davis. We worked very hard to build up the Teachers' Union in
Harvard and to build up teachers' unions generally, and we did this
with a comparatively clear conscience because our objectives, our im-
mediate objectives, were to improve teaching conditions, raise salaries,
and so on; but also obviously we wished teachers to take the same
position that we took on public questions.
Mr. Ta\T!;nner, Was there a local of that organization at Harvard ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did it have a name ?
Mi\ Davis. It was called the Cambridge Union of University
Teachers, as I recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain the manner in which the Com-
munist members of your group functioned within the Teachers'
Union — your local Teacher's Union ?
Mr. Davis. We usually discussed before a meeting what policies we
would urge at the meeting; and whenever there were elections we
would decide in advance what candidates we would propose or support.
Mr. Tavenner. And the purpose of that was to make certain that
the plans of your group were cariied out because the vast majority of
members of your local were non-Communist ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your group ever oppose the election of an official
of the local group who was opposed to the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. That would follow almost inevitably from the fact we
did support some. Naturally we would oppose their opponents, but I
can't remember specific instances.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the gi'oup of Communists who were working
within the Teachers' Union also sponsor the passage of resolutions
Avhich the Communist Party as a wliole was interested in having
endorsed or adopted by various groups ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall any specific instance?
Mr. Davis. No ; I can't, but they would have to do again with the
national political situation at that time.
Tlie Communists supported the New Deal, supported the Roosevelt
administration until the Russian pact of 1939 ; and many of the meas-
ures which they supported were, I think, good measures — against anti-
Semitism ; against fascism ; for minority rights.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your group of Communist Party members en-
deavor to control the selection of delegates from the local Teachers'
Union to national conventions ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. TAMiNNER. And also to district conventions ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
12 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Of wliat district was the local at Harvard a
member ?
Mr. Davis. The Massachusetts Teachers' Union — whatever its title
was.
Mr. Clardy. Can I interject there?
"Were yon successful in your efforts to obtain that control in the
selection of delegates ?
Mr. Davis. During that period ; yes.
Mr. Clardy. Was that because you had been a cohesive body, knew
where you were going, and worked hard at it?
Mr. Davis. And also because, as I say, the policies we supported
were policies supported by many liberals and progressives at that time.
Mr. Clardy. And you had the support of many other people who
would probably have rebelled at communism as a word or party ?
Mr. Davis. I am not even sure the last is true, because many were
willing to work with Communists in the united front at that time.
Mr. Clardy. Even though they knew they were working with
Commies ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. What year was that, please ?
Mr. Davis. That was between 1937 and 1939.
Mr. Clardy. We are talking now about those in the teaching pro-
fession particularly?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr, Clardy. You understand that ?
Mr. Davis. They would have said, though, they objected strongly to
certain Communist policies, they felt the good ends justified the means
of collaboration at that time.
Mr. Scherer. I believe you said. Professor, that the group, party,
at that time apposed anti-Semitism?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. Today, of course, you know it is as anti-Semitic as the
Nazi Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. That's why I was particularly interested in the
position of Louis Harap.
Mr. Clardy. I don't follow you there.
Mr. Davis. P)ecause, as editor of the magazine, whatever it may
be called, Jewish Affairs, I believe, he is now defending the Prague
trials, contending that they are not anti-Semitic.
Mr. Clardy. Do you happen to have a copy of that available? T
would like to see one.
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't.
Mr. Clardy. If you could obtain one and send it to me, I would ap-
preciate it. We may have it in the files, but I would like to see a recent
issue.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you proceed, please, to describe the meth-
od by which you endeavored to control the selection of delegates to the.
district and national convention of the Teachers' Union?
Mr. Davis. One reason why Connnunists were successful was be-
cause in these organizations all service was voluntary. The teachers
were very busy ; trips were expensive, and very frequently those who
offered to go were asked to go because no other persons were available,
and if a member of the Communist Party offered to go his offer was
usually accepted, if he offered to go to a national convention.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 13
Mr. Tavenner. And were those offers made as a result of a de-
cision by your Communist Party group that they should be made?
Mr. Davis. Yes. Again, if persons were willing to go, even within
the Communist group, there was not immediate pressure or orders
which had to be carried out. That is, the members of this group still
retained a great many of their liberal attitudes and were handled, on
the whole, with kid gloves by the officials.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a district or State or National con-
vention of the Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Davis. I went to two national conventions.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not Communist Party in-
fluences were brought to bear on the conventions that you attended ?
Mr. Davis. There was always a Communist Party caucus.
Mr. Moulder. What years
Mr. Tavenner. Describe that
Mr. Mculder. What years were those?
Mr. Davis. These were in the academic years 1937-38 and 1938-39.
The convention I remember most clearly was at Buffalo, and it oc-
curred just at the time of the pact in late August 1939.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, are you sufficiently acquainted with the facts
as of today to tell us whether or not the same techniques are being
followed today ?
Mr. Davis. Oh, I'm sure that can be taken for granted. The Com-
munists always meet and consult together.
Mr. Clardy. And the things you've been describing as taking place
in the tliirties, in your judgment, are taking place today?
Mr. Davis. Yes; except that the situation probably requires much
more secrecy. These activities were comparatively open at that time.
Mr. Clardy. You think there is more of an underground now tlian
there was at that time ?
Mr. Davis. Yes, and a much smaller one.
And I should like to interject at this point the fact that at the
present time among teachers the influence of Communists is very
slight because the times have changed and because the teachers have
been so shocked by the events in the Soviet Union in the last 8 years ;
and among students at colleges like Smith any evidence of radical
activity has disappeared entirely.
Mr. Clardy. Would you say the things you and others like you
have been doing to combat the Communist influence may have had
something to do with making it more difficult for the Communists to
get along?
Mr. Davis.^ a little, I hope ; but mostly it is a matter of world
events — the Korean war ; the purge trials in the Soviet Union and the
inhumanities practiced by Communist regimes. It's very hard for
anyone to defend those today.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you also say that knowledge of the manner
in which the Communist Party endeavors to exert influence over its
own members and to effect their thinking, and particularly their
views as to academic freedom, have awakened the teachers and stu-
dents in a measure to the dangers of communism ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. I think those who entered the Communist Party
for good reasons, for democratic and progressive reasons, discovered
that the activities of the party were inconsistent with democracy and
30172—521 2
14 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
progressivism and left ; and I think those who left have liad a much
greater insight into the dangers of communism, both intellectually
and politically, than they otherwise would have had. They've sal-
vaged that at least from the experience.
Mr. Clardt. You wouldn't say the job of cleansing the temple has
been finished, though, would you?
Mr. Davis. No ; but I am speaking now of general influence among
teachers and students. The open influence is very slight now.
Mr, Tavenner. I was
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, may I ask you : Do you feel a person who is
a Communist, belongs to the Communist Party, adheres to the prin-
ciples of the Communist Party, follows the Communist Party line,
is a free agent, especially with reference to his teaching ability?
You mentioned something awhile ago about the control the Com-
munist Party has over the thinking of teachers and American citizens,
how it attempts to control the thinking of American teachers and
citizens generally. I'm just wondering if you have any further com-
ment to make on that particular phase.
Mr. Davis. So far as my own experience'goes, there was no direct
attempt to influence teaching. There was never in the unit to which I
belonged any discussion of what we did in class. It was always an
indirect influence through Marxist-Communist political education.
Mr. Velde. I am referring to this : Do you think a Communist
Party member can have a free and open mind, especially in teaching in
a classroom, even though he was given no instruction bj^ the Com-
munist Party as to what he should teach ?
Mr. Davis. It depends on his subject. I should think a teacher of
music or mathematics might teach in a way that was quite unaffected
by his political theories. In the political sciences, and even in the
humanities, I doubt if this can be so; and I, myself, now feel that
no one who is generally genuinely humane could be a defender of
what goes on now in the Soviet Union and the Communist countries.
Mr, Velde. Then, within the classroom it is possible, in your
opinion, that a Communist can teach without instilling Communist
philosophies in students, providing he taught the proper subjects.
Now, how about his influences outside the classroom on our thinking?
Mr. Davis. There he's likely to have more influence. This often,
too, will be indirect because of his influence on other faculty mem-
bers, because of the talks he gives at public meetings. It's not been
my experience that Communists, partly for reasons of security, try
very generally to indoctrinate students specifically. I think the
influence does tend to be an indirect one.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, you have mentioned, discussed this cell,
Communist Party, in Harvard. I would like to state, for the benefit
of the public press, that in the committee's opinion the fact that the
testimony at this hearing involves a Communist cell at Harvard is
no reason that inferences should be drawn that we are investigating
Communist activities only at Harvard University or that these activ-
ities are any more serious at Harvard than at any other of our great
universities.
Mr. Kearney, Professor Davis, a few days ago, in the newspapers,
tliere was a hue and cry raised by certain educators throughout the
country protesting against the investigation of communism and Com-
munists in the universities and colleges of the country. In other words,
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 15
these individuals stated there was an interference with freedom of
thought.
Do you believe that this committee should proceed in exposmg
communism and Communists in the colleges and universities of this
country ?
Mr. Davis. I think in the present situation that the Government
should explore and expose the ramifications of the Communist Party ;
but I think this has to be done with great caution by persons who are
politically informed. I think that the testimony should be cautious
testimony that would stand up in court. I think any loose charges,
particularly a loose use of the word "Communist" or "Red" applied
to teachers who are speaking their honest convictions about national
or international ali'airs, can be extremely harmful. I think it's en-
tirely a question, therefore, of the manner in which this is done, the
scrupulousness.
Mr. IvEARNET. With that I heartily agree with you, but at the same
time do you see any objection to the investigation of Communists
and communism in labor unions, in other phases of our national life,
to the exclusion of universities and colleges?
Mr. Davis. No. I do feel it necessary to have all possible infor-
mation about the activities of the Communist Party itself for security
reasons.
Mr. Clardt. Could you put it this way ; If we treat the other wit-
nesses as you have been treated thus far, would you not say we are
conducting it fairly and as you would like it ?
Mr. Davis. So far, yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you feel that your experience today here has
interfered in any way with your academic freedom or the academic
freedom of any professor at Smith College?
Mr. Davis. That I will learn in the weeks to come.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this right along that line : Have you been
subpenaed to come before this committee?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. And you came as a result of being subpenaed?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Doyle.
Mr, Doyle. Would you have felt it your duty to in any way contact
this committee or any other governmental agency or department and
reveal anything which you have today revealed if you hadn't been
subpenaed ?
Mr. Davis. I did not do so because I had reason to suppose that the
facts were available to the necessary — to the Government agencies.
Mr. Doyle. You mean the facts as regards you, yourself?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Having been a member back in 1937-38 ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Along the line of the cell at Harvard, am I in error
that that cell, so far as you know, no longer exists; does it?
Mr. Davis. I have no direct knowledge of it ; no.
Mr. Doyle. And you have had no direct knowledge of it since
approximately what year?
Mr. Davis. Nineteen— the fall of 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. An investigator of this committee came to see you
before any subpena had been issued?
16 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Davis. At the same-
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't that true?
Mr. Davis. At the time of the issuing of the subpena. It was not
presented until after he talked to me,
Mr. Tavenner, So that the information you have given the com-
mittee was given actually before any subpena was served on you ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Or at least some information relating to the general
problem ?
Mr, Davis, Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You indicated that the members of your group at
the time you were a member of the Communist Party did not make
an effort to recruit students into the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. No; definitely not.
Mr. Tavenner, Well, was the emphasis of recruitment made in any
other field?
Mr, Davis. Yes ; the effort was to recruit faculty members.
Mr. Tavenner. Why was it the decision was made to attempt to
expand the Communist Party within the faculty instead of branching
out also and including students?
Mr. Davis. I think
Mr. Tavenner. Was there a reason?
Mr. Davis. I think there were a variety of reasons, but the first
one is that it would have been much too risky as students join some-
thing and leave it and they talk freely and it would have led to the
exposure of the individual members.
But I also think, as I say, that the group at Harvard were at heart
democrats, liberals, progressives. I think they disliked using any
pressure they might have on individual students, even though this
seems inconsistent with their policy and position as Communists.
In any case, though, members of the group spoke as individuals
before general student meetings and rallies. There was a very mini-
mum of direct personal contact.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it common knowledge at Harvard that a Com-
munist Party cell existed among the faculty members?
Mr. Davis. Yes, among liberals close to those who were party
members.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, that fact in itself would have been an induce-
ment to members of the student body to unite in some group of their
own, such as the Young Communist League, would it not ?
Mr. Davis. It might be an influencing factor, but there were so
many other factors in that time. The students were even more polit-
ically conscious tlian tlie instructors, and there were all sorts of or-
ganizations for tliem which were directed from above, quite independ-
ently of this group, so that even if the group hadn't existed I think
student organizations would have taken very much the same character.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not there were student or-
ganizations of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. This was almost certainly, although I had no direct
contact with it, the Young Communist League. It may have had a
different name, although tliat was what it was.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Did you have any infonnation as to the numbers
that were of that group ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 17
Mr. Davis, I would have the impression there the membership was
quite small, though it exerted, a larger influence than the number
would indicate.
JSIr. Tavenner. Were there other groups members of the Communist
cell within the faculty?
Mr. Davis. I have no certain knowledge of that. I have no reason
to suppose there were.
JMr. Clardy. Counsel, may I interrupt?
You say they would exert influence far greater than their numbers
would seem to indicate possible. What do you mean by that?
Mr. Davis. I mean among the students the same thing would hap-
})en in student organizations that happened to us in the Teachers'
Union — that is, a small group whose policies were in general accord-
ance with the left-wing and progressive movements at that time could
assume a position of leadership, and they were often very intelligent
and well-informed students.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to return now to the action that was
taken at the national conventions of the Teachers' Union.
I understand you to say that caucuses were held at both of the con-
ventions that you attended and that those caucuses were made up of
Communist Party members.
Mr. Davis. I can't remember attending a caucus at the first one I
went to. I think they may have slipped up or my name wasn't known,
or something. I can't remember going to any of the first, but I do
remember the second.
Mr. Tavenner. W^ell, tell us all you know about that, please.
Mr. Davis. These were fairly large, as I remember, and would
discuss what was occurring at the convention and what was needed
to shift opinion or to get someone elected. It operated very much
as the unit at Harvard operated within the local Teachers' Union;
and at that time they were rather careless so far as publicity was
concerned — people at the convention — in the sense that this was going
on, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner. How many composed that caucus meeting ?
Mr. Davis. It was quite large, and even that ma}- have been selective.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee any reasonable idea
as to the number ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I would — I really can't.
Mr. Walter. Where were they held? You testified one was held
in Buffalo. Where was the other convention ?
Mr. Davis. In a place in Ohio, on a lake. I don't remember it now.
Mr. Ta%^nner. How many of your associates from Harvard at-
tended that convention with you ?
Mr. Davis. The second one?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Davis. I remember only one other person.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was his name ?
Mr. Davis. Let me preface the naming of names by expressing
my extreme concern over the necessity of naming names — not be-
cause I don't agree with what I said earlier about the necessity of
studying the ramifications of the Communist Party, but because
these events occurred from 12 to 15 years ago. I knew many
teachers in many diffierent connections, professional and personal,
18 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
and I have moments of doubt even among — about those whom I
assumed I knew best in these connections.
But do you still wish me
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, let me say this: I do not want you to-
state in open session the name of any person as to whom you are
not sure or as to whom you are in doubt as to membership.
Mr. Velde. You are referring to membership in the Communist
Party, aren't you, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Taa^nner. Yes, and that was my question.
Mr. Davis. Yes.
IVIr. Tavenner. As to who it was that attended this Teachers' Union
convention wnth you who was a member of the Communist -Party
with you at Harvard.
Mr. Davis. Yes. That is why I hesitated.
Mr. Tavener. And if you are in doubt as to the name, I do not
want you to state it in public session.
JNIr. Davis. I would prefer not to, then.
Mr. Clardy. Well, let me say this : As a new member of the com-
mittee, I join in what has been said and I want you to thoroughly
understand that we do not want you, as individual members to give us
any wild rumors or guesses. We want you to speak only of your
knowledge.
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question at this point, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Is the doubt in your mind. Professor, as to whether
or not this individual was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. No; in this case it's a doubt whether the person I'm
thinking of is the one who actually attended the convention.
Mr. Velde. But I take it you are certain that this person you are
thinking of, who attended the convention, was a member of the
Communist Party; is that right?
Mr. Davis. No; I am not certain about the person who attended
the convention with me — the second convention. That is what I am
uncertain about.
Mr. Velde. But you remember him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. One of the persons I have in mind was a member of the
Communist Party ; yes, but I am not certain he is the one who went to
the convention.
Mr. Velde. Well, will you state, then, for the benefit of the com-
mittee the name of that person and how you know he was a member
of the Communist Party without reference to the convention?
Mr. Doyle. Now, may I ask this, please, at that point ?
Mr. Velde. Well, just a minute. Will you let the witness answer
my question ?
Mr. Doyle. No ; I want to interpolate right here before the witness
answers that question, if I may, please.
Mr. Velde. All right, proceed.
Mr .Doyle. I want to compliment the witness on being extremely
careful. I want to compliment our counsel on the statement he made^
interpreting to the witness the kind of evidence we want, and I wish
to go on record now, as I have often, that I, as a member of the
committee, want to state to the witness if there is any reasonable doubt
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 19
in your mind as to whether or not this person or any person about
whom you are testifying now or do before you are through with your
testimony is a Communist, in line with the question you are asked,
I would say as a member of the committee I don't want you to give
the name of a person unless you are dead sure that person was a
member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Velde. I would like to concur here in the statement, as far as
that is concerned, Mr. Doyle, and further state should any person
be mentioned in public hearing and that person feels that he would
like to come forward and talk to the committee counsel and committee
investigator with reference to the testimony about him, or would like
to come forward in opposition and refute that testimony, he is cer-
tainly welcome to do so by applying to our counsel or one of our
investigators.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr.-
Mr. Velde. I think I have the question that hasn't been answered
yet.
Will the reporter restate the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I had planned before the testimony
is completed to give him an opportunity to state who were associated
with him in this work, and the circumstances, and I don't know
whether it can be done very well by just asking him one particular
name at a time.
Mr. Velde. All right; I will withdraw the question, and we will
proceed.
Continue, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you proceed to describe for the committee
the action that was taken in the caucus that you referred to and just
how the caucus was managed ?
Mr. Davis. That caucus, as I say, discussed policies and events at
the convention itself.
I remember more clearly a caucus which I attended in New York
during the academic year and not at a time of convention. This was
a caucus of representatives from different parts of the country. It
was addressed by Jack Stachel, an official of the
Mr. Tavenner. Now, was this meeting you referred to in New York
a Communist Party meeting or was it a caucus of a group within the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Davis. It was a caucus of the group within the Teachers' Union.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, if you have a convenient breaking-off
point, the committee would like to recess.
Mr. Ta\^nner. May I finish this one point ?
Mr. Velde. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. You say Jack Stachel spoke to the group of teachers
of the Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was Jack Stachel's position in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. He was a high official of some kind.
Mr. Tavenner. He is one of those who was convicted in the first
trial of the Communists in New York
Mr. Davis. Yes; under
Mr. Tavenner. Under the Smith Act, was it not ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
20 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 11 : 52 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 2 p. m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(At the hour of 2 : 03 p. m. of the same day the proceedings were re-
sumed, the following committee members being present: Represent-
atives Harold H. Velde, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H.
Scherer, Francis E. Walter, Morgan M. Moulder (appearance noted in
hearing), Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted
in hearing).)
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Davis, be seated, please.
Professor Davis, in your testimony this morning you set forth the
activities of the members of your cell in three categories. One was
the aid and assistance that you as Communist Party members should
give in infiltrating and aiding Communist front-organizations
Mr. Davis. Or professional organizations.
Mr. Tavenner. Or professional organizations; and second, Marx-
ist study groups that you participated in ; and, third, was fund-raising
campaigns for the benefit of organizations in which the Communist
Party w^as interested.
I am just reminded sometimes you nod your head in approval rather
than to specifically answer, and the reporter
Mr. Daves. I see.
Mr. Tavenner. Can't put down the nodding of the head.
Mr. Davis. This summary seems to be correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
When we concluded the morning session, you were about to tell us
of a caucus meeting that occurred in New York City which was ad-
dressed by Jack Stachel. Now, will you inform us fully about that
meeting, what it was, its purposes and any other information you can
give us about it.
Mr. Davis. It was to determine the policies of the Communist lead-
ers within the A. F. of T.
Mr. Clardt. Within what?
Mr. Davis. Within the American Federation of Teachers.
At that time
Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. Will you state that over, please?
Mr. Davis. It was called to determine the policies of the Commu-
nists who were in positions of leadership within the American Federa-
tion of Teachers.
(Representatives Morgan M. Moulder and James B. Frazier, Jr.,
entered the hearing room at this point.)
Mr. Tavenner. In ascertaining who were those leaders
Mr. Davis. I don't think I can
Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose in attempting to ascertain
the names of the leaders in that organization ?
Mr. Davis. Oh, no; these were Communists who were in position
of leadership, and they were called by the party to the meeting in
New York to determine future policy
Mr. Tavenner. Oh, I
Mr. Davis. Of the American Federation of Teachers.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 21
Mr. TA\'EN]srER. I'm sorry — I misunderstood you.
Mr. Clardy. They wanted to resolve a course of action ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; and this course of action was outlined by Stachey.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what area were these people selected who at-
tended that meeting?
Mr. Davis. From a quite wide area — from New England, the Middle
Atlantic States, and I think there were some representatives from the
West, the Middle West at least.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, to be certain, I understand that this was a
meeting of Communist Party members
Mr. Davis. I understood it to be ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And it was a meeting of Communist Party per-
sons who were also members of the Teachers' Union
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that correct ?
Mr. Davis. Of the national federation.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the National Federation of Teachers?
Mr. Davis. Teachers.
Mr. Tavenner. Was a person by the name of Hulda McGarvey
present at that meeting?
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Hulda McGarvey?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I had met her at Smith at the time she was teach-
ing there, and I met her at caucuses of the New England representa-
tives meeting in Boston.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, when you say "caucus" — caucus of what?
Mr. Davis. Of Communist Party members within the State Federa-
tion of Teachers.
Mr. Tavenner. And you met with her as a member of that caucus?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Taa^nner. Wlien was that?
Mr. Davis. I can only fix it within the years of my party member-
ship. I can't fix the exact date.
]\Ir. Tavenner, Did I understand you to state she was employed in
some capacity at Smith?
Mr. Davis. At that time.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. How long was she employed at Smith College ?
Mr. Davis. I don't know because she had left when I went there
myself to teach.
Mr. Tavenner. Oh, she was not there when you were there as a
teacher ?
Mr. Da\t:s. No.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you know whether she held any position in the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Davis. She represented in some capacity the local at Smith.
Mr. Tavenner. Does that local still exist at Smith College?
Mr. Davis. No ; I think it went out of business about 2 years ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether Doxie Wilkerson was present
at that caucus in New York ?
Mr. Davis. No ; he was
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat position did he have in the union ?
Mr. Davis. He was one
Mr. Tavenner. Teachers' Union ?
( PUBLIC J
22 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Davis. He was one of the national board of American Federa-
tion of Teachers.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not he was also a function-
ary of the Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. Not at the time in any open way, but I assumed from
his presence there that he was a member.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Samuel Sillen at that meeting?
]\Ir. Davis. Not at the caucus in New York, but I met him at the
Communist caucus at one of the two meetings of the American Fed-
eration of Teachers I attended, and presumably tlie second because,
as I said this morning, I don't remember going to a caucus of the
first.
Mr. Clardy. Counsel, what is that name?
Mr. Tavenner. Sillen — S-i-1-l-e-n.
Mr. Clardy. His first name?
Mr. Tavenner. Sam — Samuel Sillen.
What was his position at that time ; do you know?
Mr. Davis. No ; he was either teaching or had been teaching some-
where in the New York area.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Do you know whether or not he held an official
position in the Teachers' Union at that time ?
Mr. Davis. That, I do not remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he held any position within
the Communist Party at that time ?
Mr. Davis. No; I know only he was a delegate to the convention;
that he also was a Communist.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he is the same person as Sam-
uel Sillen who was or is affiliated with the Daily Worker at this time?
Mr. Davis. I know him through the magazine Masses and Main-
stream, of which he is an editor.
Mr. Velde. Is he an editor of Masses and Mainstream at present
time, Mr. Davis?
Mr. Davis. I think so ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, can you recall the names of any other func-
tionaries of the Communist Party or members of the Communist Party
who were present at that caucus which was addressed by Jack
Stachel
Mr. Davis. Charles
Mr. Tavenner. In New York ?
Mr. Davis. Charles Hendley — H-e-n-d-1-e-y — was present. He was
at that time head of the New York local of the American Federation
of Teachers.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what position he held at that time
in the teaching profession ?
Mr. Davis. No; I don't. I assume he was a teacher in the New
York public schools, but I am not certain.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of others ?
Mr. Davis. I think Bella Dodd was present on that occasion.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Bella Dodd at that time one of the officers of
the Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Davis. Yes; I think she was a legislative representative but
that may have occurred later.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she later become a member of the National
Committee of the Communist Party ? /
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 23
Mr. Davis, I believe so.
Mr. Tavenner. And she lias now withdrawn from the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. Yes. .
Mr. Tavenner. And is very much opposed to it ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Ta-s-enner. And is active in her opposition to it?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; she has testified in New York.
ISIr. Tavenner. Was Katherine Lumpkin present at the meeting
in New York?
Mr. Davis. No. I met her at the — well, I have known her in many
connections but she was present at the second convention I attended,
I'm pretty sure at the time of the Russian-German pact, that is, the
meeting of late August 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what meeting was that to which you refer ?
Mr. Davis. That was the convention of the national federation in
Buffalo.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she hold any official position in the Teachers'
Union?
Mr. Davis. She was a delegate and has at times since then been
secretary of the Smith College local.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, was she on the faculty of Smith College at
that time ?
Mr. Davis. I don't know if she's ever been on the faculty ; no. She
has been a teacher in the past and, therefore, had a right to belong to
the union, but she was not formally connected with Smith College.
Mr. Tavenner. She had never been employed at any time by Smith
College, to your knowledge?
Mr. Davis. Not to my knowledge ; no.
Mr. Clardy. What was her first name. Counsel ?
Mr. Ta%t:nner. Katherine.
Mr. Davis. Katherine.
Mr. Tavenner. The spelling is K-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-e, I believe.
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Did she reside in that community, Northampton,
though not attached in any way to the school ?
Mr. Davis. Did she resign, you said ?
Mr. Ta\'enner. Reside.
Mr. Davis. Yes ; she resided in Northampton.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Dorothy W. Douglas ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship
with her ?
Mr. Daates. I've known her as a teacher at Smith, but I also knew
her in the American Federation of Teachers before I came to Smith,
and I knew her as a Communist in that federation, both through
contact in caucuses in Massachusetts and also at the national con-
vention.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Is she still affiliated with Smith College?
Mr. Davis. No ; she left, I think, 21/2 years ago.
Mr. Clardy. Where is she now ?
Mr. Davis. She is residing, I believe, in Bryn Mawr, but is not
-connected with the college so far as I know.
24 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Was she in attendance at the caucus held in New
York City which was addressed by Jack Stachel?
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, can you recall the names of any other
persons who attended the caucus in New York City which was ad-
dressed by Jack Stachel ?
Mr. Davis. Not with the complete confidence we discussed this
morning; no.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you advise the committee more fully as to the
action that was taken at that caucus meeting?
Mr. Davis. At that time, as I recall it, Stachel was in a conciliatory
mood because of the requirements of the united front policy and
wanted the Communist members to accept the leadership of the so-
called Chicago group,
Mr. Clardt. The what?
Mr. Davis. Of the Chicago gi'oup.
The Chicago local was at that time considered to be far more con-
servative politically than the New York tendency and, for political
reasons, to preserve the union of the federation, the members at that
caucus were instructed not to fight the Chicago local, to permit it to
carry out some, at least, of its policies.
That's the best of my recollection after all these years.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you acquire information at that time as to what
percentage of the membership of the Teachers' Union were members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. No. This was a very selective caucus.
Mr. Clardy. How many were present altogether ?
Mr. Davis. I should say about 20. but we weren't introduced to each
other and, so, I can name only those whom I recognized from at-
tendance at the conventions.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, let us return to the second of the national
conventions which you attended and at which you said there was a
caucus of the Communist Party members. Will you advise the com-
mittee what the result of the caucus was that was had ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I'm soiTy to say I cannot because it was a matter
of very complex union affairs and after this period of time I simply
can't reconstruct it in any meaningful way. It was not a matter of
broad national policy, but of factional controversies within the union.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you give us, please, the names of persons
who attended that caucus and whose names you have not already given
us?
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't remember any others.
Again, we were not introduced to them, you see. They preserved
the secrecy of names as much as possible.
]VIr. Tavenner. You referred to your local at Harvard being a
member of the district ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. How many schools were represented in that dis-
trict organization ?
Mr. Davis. Well, both the colleges and the public schools were in-
cluded. A very large number were because there were public school
locals in at least 8 or 10 of the, local schools in Massachusetts. The
college representation was much smaller, but I suppose at least 6 col-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 25
leges were represented— not by Communist Party members; I'm
speaking now of the Teachers' Union itself and the Massachusetts Fed-
eration of Teachers.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, what were the names of the colleges who were
affiliated with or a part of that district?
Mr. Davis. Smith was ; Simmons College ; I think there probably
was a Wellesley local. I can't be sure. I think Tufts at times may
have had representation. Amherst, I think, may have.
Mr. Moulder. I think we should make the record clear they weren't
representing those schools there at that meeting, were they ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I am not speaking now of Communists, but simply
of the locals, college locals who were affiliated with the National Fed-
eration of Teachers.
Mr. Cl.\rdt. Did each of them, however, have a Communist cell
within their representation?
Mr. Davis. Not so far as I know. Smith is the only one I can recall
that did have.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any caucus meetings at that dis-
trict — —
Mr. Davis. Of
Mr. Tavenner. Convention?
Mr. Davis. Of Massachusetts?
Mr. Taatnner. Yes.
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I think I must have attended at least one. That is
why I remember the presence of Dorothy Douglas and Hulda Mc-
Garvey.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the same procedure used in the district con-
ventions as in the national of having a caucus of Communist Party
members ?
Mr. Davis. Yes. That met fairly infrequently because the State
organization was less important than either the locals or the national.
It was simply an in-between link.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of any Communists who
met in a Communist caucus attended by you at a district convention
which you have not already given us?
Mr. Davis. No ; I can't, and I attempted to recall, but none come to
me.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your last connection with the Teachers'
Union as a members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. It continued as long as my membership in the party con-
tinued. That is, I was a Communist, Communist Party member,
within the union and that status changed, of course, when I stopped
being a member of the Communist Party; but I remained active in
the union and found myself in opposition to my former comrades.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make known in any special way the fact
that you had withdrawn from the Communist Party to those that you
had been formerly associated with in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Oh, they knew it, of course, instantly.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, your activity and that of the other members
of the Communist Party in promotion of the interest of the Com-
munist Party within the Teachers' Union was only one of the various
activities, I understand
Mr. Davis. Yes.
26 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Ta\t.nner. In which members of your cell or group engaged?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you stated that another function of your
party, of your group, was to join American League for Peace and
Democracy ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; politically, in the struggle against war and fascism,
that was the major popular front.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you tell the committee what led up to
the work of the Communist Party within that organization, as you
understood it ?
Mr. Davis. This organization had existed in various forms since at
least 1933, and I think
Mr. Ta\tenner. It was formerly the American League Against
War
Mr. Davis. War and Fascism.
Mr. Ta\tenner. And Fascism.
Mr. Davis. It grew out of an international conference, I think, in
Brussels around 1933, a peace conference, and continued on an inter-
national scale from that time on and through that whole period I
think it was a direct instrument of the Communist Party — one of its
most important fronts.
Mr. Tavenner. The American League for Peace and Democracy
was cited for subversion and having Communists by Attorney Gen-
eral Tom Clark on June 1, 1948, in this language:
Established in the United States in 1937 as successor to the American League
Against War and Fascism in an effort to create public sentiment on behalf of
a foreign policy adapted to the interests of the Soviet Union.
The American League for Peace and Democracy was designed to conceal Com-
munist control in accordance with the new tactics of the Communist Inter-
nationale.
Is that citation in accordance with the facts as you understood them
and believed them to be?
Mr. Davis. Yes; it seems entirely correct, except I would add, as
I did this morning, to many in the late thirties the policy of the Soviet
Union seemed consistent with American interests so far as the strug-
gle against fascism and Hitler was concerned.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the overall policy of that organi-
zation as you were connected with it ?
Mr. Davis. It was to a large extent a neighborhood organization
and was intended to draw in people who were not primarily intellec-
tuals, to educate them, to get them to take, as citizens, the political
line which the Communist Party desired to see followed. It was not
a tightly organized society.
Mr. Tavenner. And that political line was to oppose Hitler?
Mr. Davis. But it also included defense of the Soviet Union, as
they say.
Mr. Tavenner. And defense of the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, did the policy of that organization change
and even the character of the organization change ?
Mr. Davis. After the pact ?
INIr. Ta\tdnner. Yes.
Mr. Davis. It tried to continue but it collapsed. Tlie position the
Soviet Union was following in the fall of 1939 was so inconsistent with
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 27
the previously stated objectives of the league that I think the Com-
munists abandoned it and started other organizations in its place,
such as the Peace Mobilization, the Yanks Are Not Coming Commit-
tees, and so on.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, the American Peace Mobilization organiza-
tion really took up where the other organization, American League
for Peace and Democracy, left off.
Mr. Davis. That's my impression ; yes.
INIr. TA^TNNER. And the change in the Communist Party line was
that it w^as necessary when the pact had been signed between Soviet
Russia and Germany to then criticize the United States for preparing
for war and calling it a warmonger.
Mr. Davis. Yes; the war was declared to be an imperialist war.
(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Tavenner. And that change took place almost as quickly as the
signing of the pact, didn't it ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; there was a week of confusion in which the Com-
munist Party publications were uncertain as to what line to take, but
after about a week they got the line which was completely incon-
sistent with what had gone before.
Mr. Ta\^nner, Well, w^hat effect did that have upon the professors
at Harvard who were members of this Communist Party group ?
Mr. Davis. It was extremely unsettling. I started to break at once,
within that week, but then I wondered if there w^as any justification
for this strategy. I thought possibly the Soviet Union, knowing that
Hitler was going to war anyway, had tried to make a bargain that
would save as much territory as possible from Hitlerism; and so I
decided to wait, to give them the benefit of the doubt, but after I had
waited about a month and a half, or 2 months, I knew I could not
accept this and resigned.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Well, during that period of time were you visited
by functionaries of the Communist Party who endeavored to give the
party line or the new^ party line to your group ?
Mr. Davis. Indeed, yes ; it was a period of intense activity, especially
among professional groups because they realized how profound a
shock this was to genuine anti-Fascists and they had to work desper-
ately to hold the line to keep people from breaking. There were a
succession of meetings — very long meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. And, as you look back upon it now, was this just
not another effort on the part of the Communist Party to dictate to
its members how they should think
Mr. Davis. Certainly.
Mr. Tavenner. And act upon any given subject?
Mr. Davis. Certainly, except that in this country it had to take the
form of persuasion, since they had no means physically of keeping a
person from leaving the party. Therefore, they had to do it through
argument and pressure of all kinds.
Mr. Tavenner. But was opposition tolerated among those who re-
mained in the party ?
Mr. Davis, Not opposition ; no. There was a period of discussion,
as they called it, before the new line was formed ; but, once the new
line was formed, then criticism of it would lead to expulsion.
28 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. So, if a person desired to remain a Communist he
had to agree with the Communist Party line that was handed down
to him?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavt:nner. Now, who were those who attempted to control the
thought of you professors at Harvard on that subject?
Mr. Davis. They were the official leaders of the party in New
England, and if I'm not mistaken Frankfeld was still there at that
time — oh, yes; I am sure he was. He was the principal speaker.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, were there any other organizations which you
were directed or induced to become active in? I mean organizations
which were not Communist organizations?
Mr. Davis. There was an association of scientific workers, I remem-
ber, but those who joined that were scientists and not the members of
the group generally.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it a union ?
Mr. Davis. No ; it was a more or less informal voluntary organiza-
tion of scientific workers.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose in having the members of
your group to infiltrate that group of scientists ?
Mr. Davis. I don't know because I didn't take part in it, you see,
since I wasn't a scientist ; but I knew there was a good deal of interest
in it on the part of some members of the group.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, was it true that only those Communists who
were scientists were asked to unite with that group ?
Mr. Davis. So far as I remember ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear any discussions which would indicate
the purpose of infiltrating this group of scientists ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't recall discussions. It would be pure infer-
ence on my part. Some of the members in Cambridge were also re-
sponsible for founding the magazine Science and Society which is a
broad theoretical quarterly which has continued until the present
time.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you urged to become active in any other group
or organization that you can now recall?
Mr. Davis. No; I don't remember any specific suggestions. Com-
munists always worked principally in their professional or trade
unions.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, let us turn now, then, to the second division
of the activities of your group, that is, the conduct of Marxist study
groups. Will you tell us about that, please ?
Mr. Davis. It was fairly easy to form them because at this time,
again for the reasons I stated this morning, there was lively interest
in Marxism; and though I think persons joining these groups had
some idea that the instructors were close to .he Communist Party they,
nevertheless, were ready to discuss Marxism with them, and in some
cases actually the pei-sons whom the party secured were not actually
party members but were intellectual social scientists who knew a good
deal about Marxism and were willing to discuss it before a group.,
Mr. Tavenner. And what was the Communist Party purpose in
establishing these Marxist groups?
Mr. Davis. They had a double purpose ; first, to disseminate Marx-
ism, which is one of their important principles always and every-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 29
where ; and also these were very — it was a very good way of recruiting
members into the Communist Party because if members of these study
groups seemed convinced of the truth in Marxism, then they were
urged to join the party.
Mr. Tamdnner. Do you recall any instances in which members of
the faculty at Harvard were recruited to the Communist Party
through the Marxist group studies?
Mr. Davis. I can't recall the names because I don't remember now
by what process the various parties came into the party, but I am
sure it was effective in 2 or 3 cases at least.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you describe it as an effective means of
recruiting persons into the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Extremely effective among intellectuals, yes, because
intellectuals ordinarily joined immediately at least for theoretic or
intellectual reasons.
Mr, Tavenner. Were those study groups provided in any manner
by functionaries of the Communist Party on a higher level?
Mr. Davis. Not directly; no. They encouraged the formation of
them, but they left this to the members of the teachers' group who were
better able to persent it to other teachers.
JNIr. Ta\t:nner. Did these study groups include the issuance of
Communist Party literature to the individuals and the requirements
of study of particular documents and books in which the Communist
Part}' was interested at the time ?
Mr. Davis. Yes, but primarily these were the classics, Marx' Das
Kapital, the works of Engels, and so on.
Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Manifesto
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I assume was one. State and Revolution?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Left -Wing Communism?
Mr. Davis. I don't know that they were — that they would deal with
quite so a sectarian work with a broad group.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you said Das Kapital
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was one of the studies.
History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union?
Mr. Davis. No; that again was a little too immediately a party
document and might alienate intellectuals.
We were, however, instructed to distribute that book as widely as
possible.
Mr. Ta^tnner. But you thought it was a little dangerous or the
group thought it was a little dangerous to do so until the jDcrson
invited in liad become well indoctrinated in Marxian theory?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; that is right^
Mr. Tavenner. Generally.
Did you read and study any of the works of Foster ?
Mr. Davis. Foster?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, the head of the Communist Party of the
United States.
Mr. Davis. Not systematically, but members, themselves, were ex-
pected to keep up with all the relevant party literature and it was
very often brought to meetings for the use of members.
30172—53 3
30 COIMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. I want to read you a paragraph from Towards
Soviet America by William Z. Foster, printed in 1932, relating to the
subject of education. I quote as follows :
Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt
to further the culture revolution are the following :
The schools, colleges, and universities will be coordinated and grouped under
the National Department of Education and its State and local branches.
The studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and
other features of the bourgeois ideology.
The students will be taught on the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism,
internationalism, and the genei'al ethics of the new Socialist society.
Present obsolete methods of teaching will be superseded by a scientific
pedagogy.
Religious schools wiU be abolished.
Do you recall having read or having that passage brought to your
attention while you were a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. No. This is the pattern, however, that had been fol-
lowed in Communist countries and one could assume now, and assume
then, it would be followed if a Communist government came into
power in the United States ; but the Communist line had shifted some-
what in the later 1930's — that was the period when Browder's slogan
"Communism Is 20th Century Americanism" was being used — and
again the Communists were reluctant to offend those they might bring
into the broad united front and they used a somewhat subtler ap-
proach.
Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Party, as such, however, was ex-
tremely interested in the teaching profession; was it not?
Mr. Davis. Certainly.
Mr. Clardy. Still is; isn't it?
Mr. Davis. I would guess so.
Mr. Tavenner. And let me read you an excerpt from the Commu-
nist of May 1937, entitled, "The Schools and the People's Front," by
Richard Frank. Richard Frank was a member of the Education Com-
mission of the Young Communist League. He had this to say :
The task of the Communist Party must be, first and foremost, to arouse the
teachers to class consciousness and to organize them into the American Fed-
eration of Teachers, which is the main current of the American labor movement.
In the effort to organize the teachers, every care must be taken to bring to-
gether in united front actions all existing teacher organizations. Especial at-
tention must be paid to secure such action with the American Association of
University Professors, the National Educational Association, and the Guild.
Our party members in these organizations must work actively toward this end.
Well, did your experience in the Communist Party at that time in-
dicate to you that the Communist Party members in those organiza-
tions were working
Mr. Davis. Certainly.
Mr. Tavenner. To that extent ?
Mr. Davis. Certainly.
The AUP, as I remember, was not active at Harvard. The energies
there were thrown entirely in the Teachers' Union, but what you just
read was consistent with my experience of what occurred in the
Teachers' Union.
Mr. Tavenner. I continue to read :
Communist teachers cannot afford to ignore this fact : That they come in con-
tact with the children of the masses ; that they are responsible for training these
children.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 31
Communist teachers are, therefore, faced with a tremendous social responsi-
bility. They must consider not merely their own teacher problems but the prob-
lems of the children. They must take advantage of their positions without
exposing themselves to give their students, to the best of their ability, working-
class education.
Now, it appears from that the Communist Party had for its objec-
tive the influencing of students without the student realizing or know-
ing that the teacher was, in fact, a Communist Party member.
Well, now, again the reporter is unable to get your answer.
Mr. Davis. Oh, I see. Yes.
Mr. Tavexner. Again, from your experience while a member of the
Communist Party for this short time, did you recognize that that was
the purpose and the objective of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. That was quite clear from the publications of the Amer-
ican Federation of Teachers or some articles in these publications
intended for the teachers in the public schools.
As I said this morning, for a variety of reasons at Harvard there was
never any direct attempt to influence the teaching in the classes.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Did any of your students at any time suggest to you
that they had concluded that you were a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. No ; as I told the investigator, quite the contrary hap-
pened. The year when I was most active as a member of the Com-
munist Party — and it was also a year in which the students were also
conscious politicallj' — a politically conscious student came up to me
at the end of the year and said he had been trying to figure all year
just what my position was, and I think all of us who were at Harvard,
who were liberals, had a somewhat ambiguous attitude toward this.
We did want to influence our equals intellectually, but we had a lurk-
ing feeling that it wasn't quite good sportsmanship to try to influence
young people — at least to make use of our position in the classroom
to do this.
It seems inconsistent, but I think the evidence of others in that same
group will be of the same character.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Well, I am very glad to know you had that feeling
about it, but how can you be certain that all had that feeling?
Mr. Davis. Oh, I can't. I am speaking now only of the group of
people in the unit at Harvard, most of whom broke with the Com-
munist Party shortly afterward because at Harvard they were not
indoctrinated Communists.
Mr. Tavenister. It is true, however, the opportunity for such influ-
encing existed ?
Mr. Davis. It had.
Mr. Ta\^nner. And it is merely a matter as to whether the Com-
munist Party took advantage of it ?
Mr. Davis. And I am quite sure in many places teachers did take
advantage of it.
Mr. Clardy. Of course, you are speaking now only within the class-
room ; you are not talking about activities that may have been indulged
in outside of that ?
Mr. Davis. Oh, no. The members of this group often addressed
political meetings of students.
Mr. Clardy. There they did
Mr. Davis. Then they did.
32 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy, Pardon me.
Mr. Da\^s. Go ahead.
Mr. Clardy. They did address meetings outside the classroom to
accompHsh the party objective without any feeling they were running
contrary to their conscience ?
Mr. Davis. They did address political meetings, yes, and did take
the Communist line in these meetings; and students attended these
meetings and the prestige of the teacher there would undoubtedly
have had an effect.
Mr. Tavenner. Continuing to read from the article mentioned :
To enable the teachers in the party to do the latter—
And by "latter" is meant the teaching of the working class, the
giving of a working-class education —
the party must take careful steps to see that all teacher comrades are given
thorough education in the teachings of Marxism and Leninism.
Only when teachers have really mastered Marxism and Leninism will they
be able skillfully to inject it into their teaching at the least risk of exposure
and at the same time to conduct struggles around the schools in a truly Bolshevik,
manner.
Such teachers can also be used to advantage to conduct classes in Marxism,
Leninism, for workers generally, and many such teachers should be assigned
not to school units but to factory or industrial units where they can have great
aid in party education in helping with leaflets, shock papers, and so forth.
Othei's can play an important role in the educational activities of the Young
Communist League.
Now, do you know, from your experience, whether any members
of your group taught Marxist-Lenin classes in industry or in any group
outside of the faculty at Harvard ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I think they certainly did go to lecture to groups
in various outlying suburbs.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of those group meetings they
attended ? Were they regular Marxist classes ?
Mr. Davis. In some cases, yes, corresponding to the classes that were
run for teachers. Teachers would also be asked to go to places like
Revere and Chelsea and speak to study groups.
j\Ir. Tavenner. Now, can you be more definite as to the places at
which some classes were conducted?
]SIr. Davis. No ; I can name only the towns. They are the industrial
towns around Boston where there were Communists in the unions
at that time, and the Communists in the unions would organize Marx-
ist study groups just as the teachers did, and from time to time indi-
vidual teachers would be asked to come and speak to those Marxist
study groups.
Mr. Tavenner. How were those invitations extended? Were you
directed to go by a higher functionary of the- party or was it just on
invitation ?
Mr. Davis. It was done
Mr. Tavenner. On the rank-and-file members?
Mr. Davis. In a more or less personal way, yes. Trade union
organizers would meet teachers in various front organizations and
would ask them to come and speak.
Mr. Tavnner. I would like to read one more paragraph from this
article :
In rural communities teachers who are among the few educated people are
looked up to with tremendous respect. They are in a position to become com-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 33
munity leaders. As a means of mobilizing the people in the villages and country-
side, steps should be taken to try to send Communist teachers into rural com-
munities where they should become active in all community organizations.
Did you have any experience with a matter of that kind ?
Mr. Davis. No ; my activities didn't extend that far.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you advise the committee of any other
matters relating to your study groups and your programs as con-
ducted in your meetings which would throw any light upon the activ-
ities of your organization ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't think I can add anything significant.
A great deal of time was spent in going over the names of persons
who might be sympathetic to the party and might be drawn closer
to its activities.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you recall that your group engaged in the
preparation of any pamphlets for use by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes, Granville Hicks and I collaborated on a pamphlet
against anti-Semitism.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Granville Hicks a member of your group ?
Mr. Davis. For 1 year.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. For 1 year; yes.
Mr. Tavenner, I should state, Mr. Chairman, that jNIr. Granville
Hicks has cooperated with the investigators of the committee and
we are expecting his full cooperation and that, according to our invest-
igation, he withdrew from the Communist Party at approximately
the same time that the witness did and that he's been active in his
opposition to the Communist Party ever since.
Mr. Velde. I take it, from your testimony so far, Mr. Davis, that
you also have been active against communism since your withdrawal?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I have some quotations from my published writings
here if an3'one wishes to see them.
Mr. Tavenner, I am going to ask you about that in a few minutes.
Now, did you submit the material which you were proposing to use
in pamphlet — that is, you and Mr. Granville Hicks — to any function-
ary of the Communist Party for review?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; Phil Frankf eld went over it with great care and
attention.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Do you know whether Phil Frankfeld, himself,
was capable of giving it the criticism that was given it or whether he,
in turn, transmitted the material on to some higher functionary of
the Communist Party, such as V. J. Jerome, who was about that time
the cultural head of the Coimnunist Party ?
Mr. Da\t[s. He may have but I don't think this was important
enough from their point of view. His suggestions were largely po-
litical. I think he was a high enough functionary so that he would
have been entrusted with that responsibility.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a memorandum in relation to that
matter?
Mr. Davis. Yes; I submitted
Mr. Ta\tenner. Which you submitted to the committee ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
I\lr. Ta^t:nner. I hand you a document which I will ask be marked
"Davis Exhibit 1" for identification only, and ask jon whether or not
that is the document to which you refer.
Mr. Davis. It is.
34 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. TA^^ENNER. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Davis Exhibit No. 1"
Mr. Velde. Without any objection, it will be received.
(Said document was received in evidence as "Davis Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I desire, Mr. Chairman, to read this comment
in evidence because it points out the approach of the Communist func-
tionary not only to the particular subject under consideration, but to
writings generally.
Comment
Excellent material ; the historical material and quotations are well selected
and introduced.
The conclusions are not sharply drawn. The argumentation remains some-
what suspended in the air.
There is completely defensive argumentation on the question of the Jews and
communism. There must be a straightforward presentation of the right of Jews
to be revolutionists. The argument of the pamphlet follows almost exactly tbat
of the American Jewish Congress.
The point should be introduced about the support given by the rich Jews to
Hitler in his first stages of development. The poor Jews supported the Com-
munist Party. There is no sufficiently sharp line drawn between the rich Jews
and tlie poor Jews. A good illustration of this point would be the Boston garment
workers' strike of 1936 when the Jewish bosses called out the Irish cops to club
Jewish and Italian workers indiscriminately.
More facts should be introduced about numbers of Jews on relief, and so forth.
There is very little appeal made to the Protestants ; also, the section on the
Catholics should be strengthened.
At the close, introduce the relationship of anti-Semitism and the American
reaction today. Illustrate the use of anti-Semitism against even Roosevelt,
aganist Lehman in the recent election campaign. Point out that the only answer
of Jews to Coughlin must be to identify themselves more and more with the
progressive camp, against reaction and Red-baiting, for the building of a strong
peace movement, which is, itself, the struggle against fascism and anti-Semitism.
Raise the question of the unity of the labor movement and building it, the sup-
port for social and labor legislation as the truest basis for democracy and the
elimination of the basis for anti-Semitism.
Mr. Jackson. Will counsel identify that again ? Is this the critique
by Frankfeld on the work you had done, Mr. Davis?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; the rough draft of the pamphlet.
Mr. Jackson. Were those suggested changes incorporated in final
draft?
Mr. Davis. I believe so.
Mr. Jackson. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Professor Davis, we have ascertained by a very
definite evidence in the course of our hearings in Hollvwood of the
effort made by the Communist Party to put its members, who are
writers, in a mental straitjacket in determniing how they shall write
and how they shall treat their subject. Did you have any experience
with the Communist Party in writing other than this?
IMr. Davis. No ; this is the only indication which I remember direct
advice of this sort, because I think this is the only work I did under
Communist Party control of this nature.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you given to understand that your work had
to be acceptable ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavi;nner. To the higher functionaries of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. But, of course, at that time we, ourselves, tried to make it
conform to the line because we accepted the line.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 35
Mr. Tavenner. Now, let us go to the third and last division of the
activities of your group — that of fund raising.
Now, will you tell the committee what the activities of your group
were in that respect ?
Mr. Davis. The party was extremely greedy for money. Not only
did we pay quite large dues, but extra donations or assessments were
constantly being made. All sorts of means were being used to raise
money, by having parties, dances, lectures, and so on. This was a
very large part of our activity.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the dues that you paid ?
Mr. Davis. As I recall correctly, they were 5 percent of one's salary.
Mr. Tavenner. Why, they charged you more than they did the
directors in Hollj^wood. It was only 4 percent there.
Mr. Clardy. The directors' salaries were slightly larger than yours,
weren't they ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Did all the members of your group pay 4 percent
of their salary while members ?
Mr. Davis. It may have been graduated according to the size of
the salary. That I don't remember; but, in my own case, it seems
to me 5 percent was the amount.
Mr. Tavenner. Then, were special assessments made for particular
projects of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Constantly. It was always represented that the Daily
Worker or some other magazine was in a state of emergency and that
extra efforts must be made to obtain money.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, who was the contact with your committee on
matters of that kind ?
Mr. Davis. ^^Tioever was moving between us and the central office
of the party — people like the ones I mentioned this morning, such
as Hy Gordon or Margot Clark.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell Clark?
Mr. Davis. C-1-a-r-k.
Then, also, we raised money for Spain, but a good deal of that, I
suspect, went actually to the party, not to Spain.
Mr. Tavenner. What reason do you have for stating that much
of the funds raised for Spain or Spanish relief were used by the Com-
munist Party for its own purposes ?
Mr. Davis. I didn't know at that time. It was just as a result of
subsequent revelations.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Tell us a little more in detail about these special
assessments for the benefit of the Daily Worker and other
Mr. Davis. Sometimes
Mr. Ta^tenner. Communist Party enterprises.
Mr. Davis. Sometimes it was a definite assessment. That is, each
member was expected to give the equivalent of his dues — I mean an
additional amount the equivalent of his dues. Sometimes it was vol-
untary, just asking for money; sometimes members were instructed
to apjproach sympathizers and ask them to give money — not to the
party, but to some cause, like a magazine or Spanish relief.
Mr. Tavenner. At an earlier point in your testimony you identi-
fied Bill Parry as a person who was known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party. Wliat was the basis of your knowledge?
Mr. Davis. Participation in imit meetings.
36 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Was lie a member of your individual group?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Jack Rackliffe
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. E-a-c-k-1-i-f-f-e?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a person known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. On what do you base your information, your knowl-
edge ?
Mr. Davis. Appearance at a large number of Communist unit
meetings.
Mr. Doyle. Which meetings you also attended
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. With him ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Was that your own group or cell of the Communist
Party which you previously identified ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name
of John Henry Reynolds?
Mr. Davis. Yes, and I recall that one of the emergency meetings
I spoke of that occurred after the pact was held at his house.
Mr. Tavenner. And I should ask you at this time if you know of
your own knowledge that any of these persons have since terminated
their affiliations with the Communist Party, that you should state so.
Mr. Davis. I surely will.
Mr. Tavenner. Up to this point, you have no loiowledge?
Mr. Davis. No, except in the case of Granville Hicks.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Daniel J. Boorstin ?
Mr. Davis. He was a member, but I know he has broken long since.
Mr. Tavenner. And, Mr. Chairman, Dr. Boorstin, according to our
investigation, did withdraw many years ago from the Communist
Party and has cooperated and is cooperating with this committee in
giving it the benefit of information he has and, like this witness, has
been an outstanding opponent of communism since taking that action.
Richard Schlatter?
Mr. Davis. Yes; he was also a member.
Mr. Tavenner. Of this same group ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And what I had to say about Mr. Boorstin stands
equally for Richard Schlatter.
W^ere you acquainted with Richard Goodwin ?
Mr. Davis. Yes; he also was a member of the group of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any information as to whether or not
he has withdrawn from the Communist Party ?
Mr. Davis. I don't know directly, but all impressions I've gathered
would lead me to suppose so.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
George Mayberry ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; he was a membei* of the group.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 37
Mr. Tavenner. Of this same group?
INIr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Israel Halperin ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. H-a-1-p-e-r-i-n — Halperin.
Mr. Davis. I am. Yes, I was. He was a member of the group.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become acquainted with him?
Mr. Davis. I'm not sure. I don't think he was a member when I
first joined. It must have been the next academic year.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there anything outstanding or unusual about
his contribution to the work of the Communist Party in your group,
while you were a member ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't recall any. I remember him very well. I
know he was interested in the foundation of the magazine of Science
and Society, but was also very critical of the editors of it.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now ?
Mr. Davis. I know of his subsequent history from the accounts of
the Canadian spy investigations. I know he was involved in that
case but not convicted.
Mr. Tavenner. He is in Canada today now ?
Mr. Davis. I assume so.
Mr. Ta'\t:nner. Herbert Bobbins ?
Mr. Davis. He was a member the first year I belonged. He left
Harvard the second year. I have every reason to believe, on the basis
of a long conversation with him 3 years ago, that he broke perhaps
before I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Eubby Sherr — S-h-e-r-r?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; he was a member of the group for a comparatively
short time, but I think he was still a member when I left.
^Ir. Tavenner. Or Wendell Furry— F-u-r-r-y ?
]Mr. Davis. I knew him very well. He was a member of the group.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Was he a member of the group when you left
Harvard ?
Mr. Daat:s. Yes — not when I left Harvard. I have no way of
knowing when I left Harvard because I left Harvard 3 years after I
left the party, nearly 4 years.
Mr. Tav'enner. Oh, yes, but was he a member of the party when you
left the party?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the Henry Thoreau pro-
fessional section of the Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. No ; I never heard of that, to my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period of your experience in the Com-
munist Party did you learn whether members of the Communist Party
from England, who were in attendance at universities in this country,
on any occasions would have their membership transferred to the
Communist Party of the United States?
Mr. Davis. I recall a Henry fellow, I believe he was called — a Henry
fellow — who came to our unit when he was doing graduate work at
Harvard. I do not recall his name now.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you know of any other occasions when students
from England were transferred to membership in the Communist
Party in the United States ?
38 C0]V1MUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Davis. There may have been two of these Henry fellows, of
that I can't speak certain, but that is the only connection I recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I asked you in the beginning of your testi-
mony wliether or not you had been active in your opposition to the
Communist Party since you withdrew, as you have indicated. What
in general has been the nature of your work against the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. It's been partly organizational, but mostly literary. I
resigned in protest from the League of American Writers early in
1940, because of their attitude toward Hitler and the war.
When I went to Smith, I joined the Teachers' Union and struggled
against the group there, led by Dorothy Douglas and Katherine Lump-
kin, but the union took an increasingly Wallacite position in the later
forties, and I resigned from the union in protest in 1948, I was one
of the 88 intellectuals who signed the statement published in the New
York Times on March 24, 1949, calling attention to the true nature of
the Waldorf Scientific and Cultural Conference.^
I have been from the beginning a member of the Committee for
Cultural Freedom, headed by Sidney Hook, and have contributed
to Partisan Review of the Commentary and the New Leader, all maga-
zines which have for years fought Stalinism with informal intensity.
I have written for the New York Times regularly for the book re-
view section over the past 10 years, and I have here quotations from
articles which state my present devotion to democracy in unqualified
terms.
I wrote for the magazine, Commentary, only a year ago, in May
1951, an article on Soviet psychiatry, showing the relationship be-
tween Soviet psychiatry and the destruction of the individual.
May I read three sentences from that ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Davis. There is a review of a book by Dr. Wortis called Soviet
Psychiatry, and I say :
But what Dr. Wortis's book emphatically demonstrates — if it needed demon-
strating — is the iron logic behind communism's utter extinction of the individual
self. This logic is orthodox in theory — it is explicit in Marx, Engels, and Lenin —
and it has been appallingly proved and demonstrated in practice. The confessions
of opponents of the regime at Communist trials show that by "immediate pressure
of the environment — "
That is quote —
by torture, narcosis, hypnosis, and indoctrination in various combinations, the
self's organic past can actually be negated, and that it can be made to "reflect"
completely the party-partisan view of reality. Since those who do not come
to reflect this reality are considered ultimate enemies of the people, there is no
moral limit to the use which may be made of these psychological, physical, and
medical means of extinguishing the self.
And then I say later on at the end of the article :
A genuine struggle against Russian antihumanism should require our putting
as much effort as we possibly can into discovering what social and political
grounds still exist — or can be made to exist — in our contemporary society for the
survival of what David Riesman calls the autonomous individual.
And then I go on to develop that view.
^ Scientific and Cultural Conference for World Peace, arranged by the National Council
of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions, held at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City,
March 25, 26, and 27, 1949.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 39
Mr. Tavenner. When was that written ?
Mr. Davis. That was written in May 1951, but I have citations of
earlier articles along the same line.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think that is all I desire to ask,
unless the witness has something else to add that he may want to
add
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Tavenner. To his testimony.
Mr. Davis. As I said this morning, I think such investigations are
necessary, if they are carried out fairly and scrupulously. All I am
afraid of is that so much energy, political energy, may be directed
toward a preoccupation with the past, that we may not have enough
left to find creative solutions for problems that face us in the future.
I think, for instance, that it's right to go back into the history of
China and find out why that disaster occurred, and whether it occurred
as the result of espionage of improper influence by Communists within
the Government, but we want to be sure that this will help us to solve
the problems of India and Africa, for instance.
It's not enough to discover what went wrong in China.
We've got to keep the same thing from happening in other parts of
the world, and it is this danger with which I, myself, am preoccupied
at the present time.
Mr. Clardt. You mean we should profit from our past mistakes ?
Mr. Davis. We've got to profit from our experience and not let
India, Africa, and Europe go as China went.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, we certainly do appreciate your coming be-
fore the committee. Are those documents which you have there avail-
able to the committee for its files or references ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Velde. We will be glad to accept those into our files for study
of our investigators and counsel whenever necessary.
Now we have another witness to appear this afternoon, but I think
some of the members might want to ask you a few questions, Mr. Davis,
and the Chair would very much appreciate it if the members of the
committee would limit their examination of Mr. Davis so that we
might hear the other witness.
Proceed with the questions you might have.
Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. I shall try to make my questioning brief, Mr. Chair-
man.
Mr. Davis, I am not asking you to enter into the realm of opinion,
but out of your own experience in the Communist Party during the
period of time you were a member — to what extent would you say
that one submits himself to the expressed or implied discipline of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Davis. This is often, I believe, a motive for joining because
those who join desire certainty. They want a line which will give
them a sense of significant action. The Communists always have an
answer to everything. The answers aren't always very good, but he
does have an answer. This is part, unquestionably for many people —
the part, of the psychological satisfaction of being a Communist.
Mr. Jackson. In the event of a mental conflict, having to do with
some philosophical position, what resolution of the problem would
be expected by the Communist Party ?
40 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]\Ir. Davis. The member has got to work through to an acceptance
of tlie line.
Mr. Jackson. That is definitely understood
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson (continuing). By both the member and the Com-
munist Party.
Do you believe, sir, that a member of the Commmiist Party today
is equally subject to the type of discipline that we have been dis-
cussing ?
Mr. Davis. Much more so because, it seems to me, what is going on
in Communist countries now is so inconsistent with ordinary liuman-
ity or ordinary reason that a person must have to force himself to ac-
cept it; and I think in many cases it happens because a Communist
Party member has given up his life for the party over a great many
years. If he left the party, he would be nothing. So, he stays in, even
though much that is going on is unacceptable to him as a normal
man.
Mr. Jackson. In light of that understood acceptance of the disci-
pline, could a Communist teacher or professor today be an objective
pedagog ?
Mr. Davis. As I said this morning, in certain areas he still could
because people are capable of divided minds; but I don't think this
could happen in the social sciences, and I think he would undoubtedly
be influenced even in the humanities. In the sciences, this might not
happen at all.
Mr. Jackson. Would you say the keystone of education is the
ability of a teacher or a professor tp present his subject with absolute
objectivity?
Mr. Davis. I don't think absolute objectivity is possible for anyone
except a scientist. I think often a teacher is a better teacher because
he does have convictions. His teaching is more interesting. The stu-
dents have something to relate what they're learning to. It's a ques-
tion again of degree, of the fairness of the teacher.
Mr. Jackson. We have heard a great deal. Professor Davis, on
the subject of "academic freedom." I am not quite certain that I,
for one, understand actually what is meant by "academic freedom."
Could it be summed up very briefly ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I should thinS it would be very difficult to try, but
it is related to what I was just saying, that the interest of teaching
depends partly on the freedom of play of ideas. The teacher himself
and the student should be able to approacli ideas from the different
points of view within the classroom ; but, also, the greatest teachers
in the past, from the time I think of Plato and Aristotle, have been
men with convictions, with a coherent body of beliefs which they pre-
sented to the students, and these are often different beliefs from those
held by members of the same department, but in a large university a
student going from class to class can absorb these structures of ideas,
can play them off against each other, can come to his own opinions.
Mr. Jackson. Have any questions been asked of you today. Profes-
sor Davis, which you would consider to be an infringement of aca-
demic freedom as distinguished from the charge upon this committee
of investigation?
Mr. Davis. No ; definitely not. But I do think-
Mr. Jackson. Is it my understanding, to sum up-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 41
Mr. Davis. If I may add one thing
Mr. Jackson. Yes.
Mr. Davis. I do think the loose use of the word "Communist" in
the Last 4: or 5 years has made teachers in some colleges and universi-
ties afraid to speak out on controversial questions for fear they may
be called Communists. I think a certain amount of timidity exists
now that didn't exist in the past.
Mr. Jackson. To sum up the substance of your presentation today,
I think the committee can assume from the testimony that the Com-
munist Party did :
(1) IMake an effort to recruit teachers and professors into the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. (2) Having recruited them, the party did, by direc-
tive or otherwise, lay down certain broad policies which these teachers
and professors were expected to follow :
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. (3) The Communist Party expected teachers, pro-
fessors, and others in education, to infiltrate other teacher gi'oups
with the idea of putting forward policies and directives enunciated
by the Connnunist Party ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. And (4) to exercise generally, on behalf of the Com-
munist Part}', what influence they could?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. And (5) to influence, to the extent possible, the elec-
tion of group leaders and others within the popular front who were
individuals known to be favorable to the policies of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason to believe. Professor, that the
Communist Party line, with respect to education in general, has in
any way changed since it was enunciated by Lenin ?
Mr. Davis. No.
Mr. Jackson. I should like to acid a word of thanks. I think, Pro-
fessor Davis, you have rendered a tremendous service to the commit-
tee and to the country in your very able and lucid presentation here
today. It would be my hope that no reprisals — economic, political, or
professional — would be visited against you by any person because of
your testimony here today. Thank you very much.
Mr. Davis. Thank you.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clarcly.
Mr. Clardy. May I join with my colleague in saying that — to go
one step further — I think the kind of contribution you are making,
sir, is probably one of the most effective strokes against communism
that can possibly be made; and, speaking now for myself, as a new
member on this committee, I want you to know I am delighted to have
had you before me as the first witness we have had the pleasure of
interrogating.
But now, another subject, briefly : You gave me an interim answer
which got a little laughter earlier when I suggested you tell us
whether our conduct was such that you approved. You said it had
been up to that time. As I phrased the question, do I understand
42 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
your answer to Mr. Jackson as being that you now, we having con-
cluded, are willing to say that you do think the manner in which we
have conducted this is wholesome and good ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I am entirely willing to say that.
Mr. Clardy. You also said something in answer to Mr. Jackson
that I would like to explore just very briefly. You were talking on
the subject of academic freedom and, while I digress, I assume it is not
your intention, any more than that of the committee, to attack either
the colleges or the groups as a whole into which Communists have
infiltrated as described by you; am I right in that assumption?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. Of course, you understand we are not interested in
trying to smear or besmirch the name of anybody, any individual,
school, or institution. Heaven knows in my own profession, as a
lawyer, what the lawyers have to contend with — and if there is any
worse than that, I don't know what it is ; but, at any rate, you indicated
in the field of academic freedom there might be a little dangerous
ground, we would have to tread lightly, and you have approved the
way we are treading so far, but isn't it true that one who professes
to be and actually is a Communist is a little bit different from those
who adhere to Plato or Aristotle's teachings, or someone else? Isn't
he a dangerous person to be at loose in the field of education ?
Mr. Davis, Yes. In this statement I have one sentence as follows :
"I do not think we should allow the language of liberalism and democ-
racy to be used by those who would destroy liberalism and democ-
racy." That is, I think the Communists necessarily in universities
today are dishonest in what they say, whereas Aristotle and Plato
were honest.
Mr. Clardy. And is not what you are doing and what this commit-
tee is doing directed toward and should be directed toward exposing
those persons and those motives and the controls that are exerted
over those persons ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; I do. I think this dishonesty should be exposed.
Mr. Clardy. Wliat I am leading up to is this : You probably read
the piece in last night's paper and in this morning's paper by Bishop
[G. Bromley] Oxnam attacking us rather severely, attacking us before
we two freshmen members here had a chance to perform at organizing
or saying anything and using what I rather regarded as the Commu-
nist method of smear. Now, I am just asking you: Don't you think
the kind of exploration we have undertaken and carried on here today
can and will serve a useful purpose despite what the eminent gentle-
man of the cloth may have said ?
Mr. Davis. As long as groups of individuals do not misuse some
of the testimony.
Mr. Clardy. Well, as I understand it
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. You agree it has not been misused here today ?
Mr. Davis. Yes; I agree.
Mr. Clardy. If we follow the pattern here of today, will you not
say we are serving a most useful purpose in the defense of our country ?
Mr. Davis. Yes ; and if you speak out when others do misuse any of
this testimony.
Mr. Clardy. I want to agree with you, and I am sure the rest of
the members of the committee do, that we will at no time attAP>
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 43
teachers as teachers, schools as schools, churches as such, nor any of
the other groups.
We are merely aiming at the very thing you are talking about, and
I again want to thank you and say the people in your home com-
munity ought to be proud to have one who is willing to stand up and
be counted in this terrific battle against the very dangers of the ages —
it is godless communism against all the rest of us.
Mr. Velde. Mr, Scherer?
Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Professor Davis, I wrote down here that you used this
language in answer to one question :
I feel that being here today is an unpleasant duty, but one I must accept.
I am not sure I know just how to ask you supplemental to that
what I want to know or get this from your fine thinking, but why
did you feel it was a duty to come ? Why did you feel you must ac-
cept it ? What compelled you to come in and cooperate with this com-
mittee instead of pleading the first or fifth amendment or something ?
Mr. Davis. Because I broke with the Communist Party 13 years
ago because I could not stand the dishonesty and equivocation that
we were inseparable from, being a member of the party, expressing
one's doubts, pretending to other people a certainty which one really
did not feel. I felt I would have spoken out at any time in these
15 years, but since I was summoned now, I was glad to use this oppor-
tunity to clear the record and say what I believed.
Mr. Doyle. Well, why don't more men of your mental capacity feel
the same way and come forward and testify as you have ?
Mr. Davis. Prejudice has been built up over the years, partly by
the Communists themselves, but also for reasons that are quite under-
standable to anyone who has to see the operations of an honor system
in colleges, a prejudice against informing. I think the American peo-
ple generally dislike informers.
Mr. Doyle. ISIay I ask one more question ?
Under Public Law 601, which is the statute under which this com-
mittee is assigned a definite duty, one of our duties is to go into all
questions with reference or relation to subversive and un-American
propaganda which may aid in any necessary remedial legislation.
Now, that is, I think, the exact wording of the last section of the
statute under which we operate.
Have you anything to suggest to us which would help us in the
field of remedial legislation on the subject of subversive propaganda
or activities in our Nation ?
Mr. Davis. No ; I don't think my training really equips me to make
a valuable suggestion there. I've had so little experience with law
and legislation.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask you this one further question then? Did
more than just you leave that cell at the university when you left ? I
mean, was there any agreement between you and others that they
would leave? Did others also open their eyes and come to feel that
the Communist Party was dishonest, or were you the sole member
of the cell that resigned at that time ?
Mr. Davis. Two things happened : First, a member or members of
the unit left to go to other colleges in the normal course of their aca-
44 COMMUNIST METHODS OF IXFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
demic advancement, and I think instead of breaking formally with
the party, they simj^ly didn't join ^Yhere they next went.
Others, I know, from testimony that will be given to you after I
have left the stand, broke with the party in the weeks and months
following, but my own leaving was an entirely individual matter. I
came to these conclusions by myself.
Mr. Doyle. You mentioned 2 or 3 books and pamphlets, periodicals,
that were published iDy or for the Communist Party. Have you in
mind any small list of papers and periodicals that you believe now
are the mouthpiece of the Communist Party in this country?
If you have, could you leave it with our committee so that we may
have the benefit of it?
Mr. Davis. I'll do that, although I don't think I could add to what
the investigators know.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier?
Mr. Frazier. No questions, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to take
this occasion to thank the professor for -the information and fine co-
operation he has given the committee on this occasiop.
Mr. Davis. Thank you.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Davis, I wanted to ask a few questions along the
line of Mr. Clardy's questioning.
With reference to religion particularly, is there any question in
your mind that if the Soviet Government and the American Com-
m\inist Party were able to establish a philosophy of thinking here in
the United States of America, that we would have any of our re-
ligious freedom left?
Mr. Davis. No ; the destruction might be gradual for political rea-
sons, but it would occur in time, if they could convince the young
people that Marxist dialectic was the true philosophy, because Marx-
ist dialectic is inconsistent with a belief in religion.
Mr. Velde. Why, then, if communism is known to advocate de-
struction of religion all over the world, would so-called religious
leaders — like Bishop [G. Bromley] Oxnam, Dr. Sayre,^ and Keverend
Davies * — o]^pose the efforts of this comn.ittee to expose communism
and uphold freedom of our people to worship God as they please?
Mr. Davis. I don't think I could really enter into the motives.
Mr. Vei^e. Well, for the life of me I am not able to determine that
either, but it seems that every time we hold an investigation, certain
people do take opposition to our hearings, the manner in which we
conduct them, and cite many facts which I believe, as you have so ably-
described, are untrue, and I want to say now I appreciate the compli-
ment which you gave to this committee when you said you felt sure we
were not interfering with the academic freedom or freedom involved in
in any way.
It is a great pleasure and privilege for members of the committee to
listen to you in your very fine statement which you made today. I am
sure it is very valuable to this committee in its efforts to determine
facts regarding Communist infiltration into education.
Now, we have had a formal call,- 1 believe, so we will stand in recess
for 30 minutes.
2 Quorum call from floor of United States House of Representatives.
^ Very Rev. Pranci.s B. Sayre, Jr.
* Rev. Dr. A. Powell Davies.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 45
(Thereupon, at 3 : 35 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at
4 : 05 p. m., the same day.)
(At 4:07 p. m., the following committee members reentered the
hearing room : Representatives Harold H. Velde, Donald L. Jackson,
Gordon H. Scherer, and Clyde Doyle, and the proceedings were re-
sumed.)
Mr. Velde. The Chair wishes to make an announcement : That due
to the rollcall which the Members had to answer and the time that it
took, and since there is other business which we have to attend to as
well as this business, we will now stand recessed until 9 : 30 tomorrow
morning.
(Whereupon, at 4 : 08 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 9 : 30
a. m., Thursday, February 25, 1953.)
30172—53-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTEATION (EDUCATION)
THURSDAY, FEBBXJARY 26, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
PUBLIC hearings
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to ad-
journment, at 9 : 35 a. m., in the caucus room, Old House Office
Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde, chairman, presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer,
Francis E. Walter (appearance noted in hearing), Morgan M.
Moulder, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted in
hearing).
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., committee counsel;
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk ; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator;
Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; Donald T. Appell and Earl L.
Fuoss, investigators.
Mr. Velde. The committee will come to order.
Let the record show that present are Messrs. Kearney, Clardy,
Scherer, Doyle, Moulder, and the chairman.
Wliom do you have as your first witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call Mr. Daniel J. Boorstin.
Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this
committee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Boorstin. I do.
Mr. Velde. Be seated.
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL J. BOOESTIN
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Boorstin. Daniel J. Boorstin.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mr. Boorstin. B-o-o-r-s-t-i-n.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel ?
Mr. Boorstin. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. It is the practice of the committee to advise every
witness that they have the right to have counsel present if they so
desire. So I want to give you that privilege, if you desire it.
Mr. Boorstin. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you desire counsel ?
Mr. Boorstin. No, sir.
47
48 COMMUNIST METHODS OF ESTFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenxer. When and where were you born ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Athmta, Ga., October 1, 1914.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. University professor.
Mr. Tavenner. At what institution?
Mr. BooRSTiN. University of Chicago.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, a brief sum-
mary of your educational preparation?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I was graduated from Harvard College with a B. A.
degree in 1934; received the A. B. degree from Oxford University,
England, in 1936; and a B. C. L. degree from Oxford University in
1937; the J. S. D. degree from Yale University in 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline for the committee, please, what
your record of employment has been since the completion of your
education ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I was first employed by Harvard College as an
instructor and tutor in history and literature in 1938. I was em-
ployed by Harvard College in 1942, during which time I taught
briefly at Radcliffe College and the Harvard Law School.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice just a little?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
For several months during 1942, during the summer of 1942, I
was employed on the legal staff of the Lend-Lease Administration.
From 1942— from the fall of 1942 until the summer of 1944 I was
employed as assistant professor of history at Swarthmore College,
Swarthmore, Pa.
Since the fall of 1944 I have been employed by the University of
Chicago; first as visiting assistant professor of legal history; later
as assistant professor of American civilization ; and now as associate
professor of American history.
Mr. Tavenner. Doctor, are you now a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. BooRsTiN. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\'enner. When and over what period of time were you a
member of the party ?
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, before you answer that question. Do
you have any objection to being photographed by the newsreels?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. My question was, AVhen and over what period of
time were you a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. BooRSTiN. For a period of something less than a year, termi-
nating approximately in September 1939. That is about 14 years
ago that my association ceased.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you speaking now of the Communist Party
of the United States ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir. Previous to that time I had been a mem-
ber of a Marxist study group at Oxford University for a brief period.
As best I can recall, about a year.
Mr. Kearney. Were you a member of the party at that time?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 49
Mr. BooRSTiN, As I have tried — may I just make one statement,
sir? This was many years ago. It was about between 14 and
16 years ago, and it was not an important episode in my life in the
sense that I had any position of leadership, or anything of that kind.
It is very difficult for me to recall the precise nature of that group
at Oxford. It may have been an affiliate of the Young Communist
Organization of England. It may not have been so. I don't recall
clearly.
Mr. Kearney. That was 14 years ago?
Mr. BooRSTix. That was about 16 years ago.
Mr. Kearxey. Sixteen ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you state you withdrew from the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Approximately September 1939.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Have you been connected or affiliated with the
Communist Party in any way since that time ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been in opposition to the Communist
Party since the time you withdrew in 1939 2
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Air. Tavenner. Have you been active in your opposition ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to go back to the first connec-'
tion that you had with the Communist Party, or a Communist Party
group, and advise the committee just the circumstances under which
you were recruited into the group, or joined the group.
I think you should begin with your experience at Oxford as a
Ehodes scholar.
Mr. Boorstin. Yes. I will try to recall to the best of my ability
the details, although you can understand, Mr. Tavenner, that it is
a long time ago and it is difficult to remember in detail.
I don't remember whether anyone ever tried to recruit me into that
group, or urged me to join. As best as I can remember I was a mem-
ber of the group and the precise details of how I ever got into the
study group are difficult to recall in detail.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a few questions about it.
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues in this group ?
Mr. Boorstin. I don't even remember that. I think I may have.
]Mr. Ta%tenner. Were you issued a membership card of any de-
scription ?
Mr. Boorstin. I have a vague recollection of having signed a card
of some kind.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign it with your own name or were pseu-
donyms used?
Mr. Boorstin. As best as I can recall, it was with my proper name.
Mr. Tavenner. How many people were in the group ?
Mr. Boorstin. I don't remember exactly. In fact, it is hard for
me to recall what the nature of its activities were. I would guess there
might have been 100 or so students — Oxford students — in the group
together. That is just a guess.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. In the group as a whole ?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes.
50 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Was it divided into smaller groups, do you know ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Not so far as I can recall. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the group have a name?
Mr. BooRSTiN, I can't recall its name, sir. It may have had, but I
can't remember the details of it. All I can remember is that it was
identified as the local group of people who were interested in Marxism
at the university.
Mr. Tavenner. You state it was a group interested in Marxism.
Was it known as a Communist Party group also ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. It may have been, sir. I can't remember precisely.
My own interest in it was intellectual. I considered it as a study
group and had the impression that many others did also.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the subjects that you
studied in that group ?
Mr. Boorstin. As best as I can recall, it was subjects connected
with the Marxist or materialist interpretation of history.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not the Communist Party
literature or material was furnished to the group for its study in the
form of pamphlets or books ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir. I can't recall.
Mr. Kearney. Wouldn't that naturally follow then if it was a
Marxist group interested in the study of Marxism ?
Mr. Tavenner. But if the material was furnished by the Commu-
nist Party I think it would have a special bearing on it, because there
were many subjects that the Communist Party was interested in —
many books and pamphlets that they sponsored which may not have
been in a purely Marxist study group.
Mr. Clardy. Why don't we just ask him to tell us how they went
about studying Marxism ? Maybe he can enlarge on it in that way.
Mr. Boorstin. I will give you the best of my recollection, Mr.
Clardy. I can't remember the details. All I can recall is that there
were — that students were reading Marxist literature at that time.
There was a thing called a Left Book Club which existed in England
and which had many, many members.
Mr. Velde. How do you spell that. Doctor ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Left — L-e-f-t Book Club.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you study the Communist Manifesto ?
Mr. Boorstin. I don't recall specifically, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the book State and Kevolution ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I recall the name, but I don't recall specifically hav-
ing studied it at Oxford. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there any other information that you can ^ve
the committee regarding the activity of that group which you joined
at Oxford?
Mr. Boorstin. I have a vague recollection of a large meeting in a
hall somewhere in Oxford during which there were about 100 or 150
people present. And I have a recollection that some of the students
in the group may have rung door bells for the Labor Party in some
of the elections during the period that I was in England.
Beyond that it is awfully vague.
Mr. Tavenner. '\^^ien did you leave Oxford ?
Mr. Boorstin. 1937.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Counsel, before you leave that, I have a recol-
lection of his having told the committee at some time or other that
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 51
pretty nearly all of the Rhodes scholars from this Nation belonged
to that group. Is that correct ?
Mr. BooRSTiN, I think I said that in executive session, Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. I recall that from the transcript.
Mr. BoORSTiN. But since having made that statement — that was last
summer — I have been thinking it over and trying to figure out exactly
how many of the Rhodes scholars of my year I could remember as
having been in that group. Or of the Rhodes scholars who were there
at the time, and I think as best I can recall it was about six.
So I am afraid that was an exaggeration.
Mr. Clardy. Six out of how many ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. About TO. There were about 75 American Rhodes
scholars there during my period; but from any one year there were
about 32.
Mr. Clardy. So comparing this with what you said earlier, it would
be about 6 out of 32 instead of nearly all ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No. My acquaintance included some Rhodes schol-
ars from all the three classes, but I would not have known all of them.
Mr. Clardy. I see.
Mr. BooRSTiN. So I would say it would be hard to say, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Thank you.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
(Representatives Francis E. Walter and James B. Frazier, Jr.,
entered the hearing room at this point.)
Mr. Moulder. I understand six actively participated in the
meetings ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. There would be six whom I would remember. About
six whom I would remember as having been interested in the mate-
rialist interpretation of history, and having been probably members of
this group.
Mr. Moulder. A short time ago Mr. Tavenner asked you a question
as to your active opposition to the Communist Party since you had
terminated your affiliation with the party.
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Can you give us some statement as to how you ex-
pressed your opposition since that time ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. As to how you have expressed your opposition and
what acts or expressions have you made in opposition to the party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
My opposition has taken two forms : First, the form of an affir-
mative participation in religious activities, because I think religion
is a bulwark against communism. This has been expressed in my
activities in the Hillel Foundation at the University of Chicago,
which is the local Jewish student group.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name?
Mr. BooRSTiN. H-i-l-l-e-l; and which is concerned in trying to de-
velop in students an awareness of the importance of religion in their
lives and in relation to the American tradition.
I wrote a book on Jefferson some years ago, of which the motto
was, "Can the liberties" — it is a quotation from Jefferson — "Can the
liberties of a people be thought secure if they have lost their only
52 coauvruNiST methods of infiltration (education)
firm basis — the belief that those liberties are the gift of God?" I
believe that, sir.
The second form of my opposition has been an attempt to discover
and explain to students in my teaching and in my writing, the unique
virtues of American democracy. I have done this partly in my Jef-
ferson book which, by the way, was bitterly attacked in the Daily
Worker as something defending the ruling classes in America ; and in
a forthcoming book called The Genius of American Politics, which
is on the presses at the moment.
I have written articles and book reviews for a commentary maga-
zine which is a strongly anti-Communist journal, trying to explain to
people the relation of the Jewish tradition to American institutions.
]\Ir. Tavenner. When you returned to the United States did you
take up your studies at Yale ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliile at Yale did you affiliate with any group of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. I^ooRSTiN. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you at Yale ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. From the fall of 1937 until the summer of 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. After leaving Yale where did you resume your
studies ?
Mr. BooESTiN. I continued the preparation of my thesis for the
doctor's degree while I was an instructor and tutor in history and
literature at Harvard College at Cambridge, Mass.
Mr. Tavenner. And you entered in the fall of 1938. Is that sub-
stantially correct?
Mr. Boorstin. My employment at Harvard College ?
Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes.
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. And you were at Harvard from 1938 until 1942,
I understand?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. And while at Harvard you were a part-time teacher,
is that correct, to begin with ?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir. I can't recall whether it Avas technically
part-time or full-time, but I was employed, and also the understand-
ing was, I was to complete my graduate work by writing my thesis.
Mr. Tavenner. After you entered Harvard in the fall of 1938, you
then joined the Communist Party of the United States, as I under-
stand it?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the circumstances under
which you became a member of the Communist Party at that time?
Mr. Boorstin. There were a number of circumstances that as I
can recall now led me into the group. One was that those were the
days of the so-called United Front, during which the Communist
Party was taking the position of supporting all liberal and progres-
sive groups. Their motto was, "Communism Is Twentieth Century
Americanism," at that time.
They had somewhat succeeded in blurring the line between them-
selves and other groups. Also they were at that time taking a posi-
tion against anti-Semitism and against the Nazis, and as a Jew that
had a certain appeal to me, naturally.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 53
Also during that year Granville Hicks was a counselor in Ameri-
can studies, and he was a well-known person who had written a book
about American literature. His presence lent a certain amount of
glamor to the group.
In addition to that, there were some old friends of mine who had
been interested in ISIarxism at Oxford, who were at Harvard at that
time, and as friends of mine they added to the interest of the group.
It is hard to explain the thing any more clearly than that, sir.
There were many different things.
Mr. T.WENXER. Were these former associates of yours at Oxford
members of the Connnunist Party grouj) at Harvard?
Mr. BooKSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What were their names ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Eichard B. Schlatter; and Richard M. Goodwin.
Mr. Tavenner. What were their positions at Harvard at that time?
Mr. BooRSTiN. As well as I can remember it, it was about the same
as mine. They had some sort of position as instructor and were com-
pleting their studies, as I recall.
JSIr. Tavenner. How closely were you associated with those two
persons at Oxford ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. They were my roommates during my last year at
Oxford.
Mr. Tavenner. Were both of them members of the same group at
Oxford of which you were a member? The group which you
described a few minutes ago?
Mr. BooRSTiN, They were both in this study group. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the circumstances under which you
were actually brought into the party at Harvard? Did anyone ap-
proach you on the subject, or did you approach any particular
individual ?
Mr. BooRSTiN, I am sorry, but I can't remember the details.
ISIr. Tavenner. You spoke of Granville Hicks being at Harvard that
year.
Mr, BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his position was at Harvard?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I don't remember the exact title. It may have been
counselor or fellow in American history.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that the year in which Harvard began the
counselor system in advising students in history?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I think it was the first year. I wouldn't be sure if
it was either the first or the second year.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it connected with that particular project that
Mr. Granville Hicks had been engaged ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a person known at that time openly as a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
INIr. Walter. By "openly" what do you mean?
Mr. BooRSTiN. He wrote for the newspapers and wrote frequently
for Communist newspapers and journals, and admitted publicly that
he was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Walter. So that at the time he was selected as a counselor at
Harvard it was a well-known fact that he was an active member of
the Communist Party ?
54 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you discuss your induction into the Communist
Party with Granville Hicks before actually becoming a member?
Mr, BoORSTiN. I don't remember, sir. I may have. I don't re-
member.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you reside as an instructor or student
at Harvard ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Kirkland House. K-i-r-k-1-a-n-d House. Kirk-
land House.
Mr, Tavenner. Where did Mr. Granville Hicks reside? Do you
know?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I believe he was attached to Adams House, but I
think he was not residing there because he was married.
Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to state that the presence of a
person of the reputation of Mr. Granville Hicks at that time had a
bearing upon your decision to become a member of the Communist
Party at that particular time ?
Mr. Boorstin. It was one of several factors. Yes, sir.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Do you know whether his presence and his employ-
ment had any bearing upon the decision of others to join the Com-
munist Party at Harvard ?
Mr. Boorstin. I don't know it for a fact. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did Mr. Hicks remain employed at
Harvard ?
Mr. Boorstin, As well as I can recall it was for just 1 academic year.
It may have been more. I don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the general nature of your experience
as a member of the party at Harvard ? What were the activities in
which the members of the group engaged ?
Mr. Boorstin. From my point of view, sir, it was primarily a study
group in which people talked about Marxism and materialist inter-
pretation of history. The activities of the group included an at-
tempt to affect the policies and the leadership of the Harvard Teachers'
Union. Those were the two principal activities I can recall.
Mr. Tavenner. The Harvard Teachers' Union — and what was the
other activity ? You said there were two.
Mr. Boorstin. The study group aspect of it. I was never partic-
ularly active in the group and never had a leadership position in the
group.
Mr. Clardt. Was that teachers' union purely a local organization,
or part of something else ?
Mr. Boorstin. It was a branch of the American Federation of
Labor — of the American Federation of Teachers which, in turn, was
a branch of the American Federation of Labor.
Mr. Clardt. Some question was raised whether it was part of the
A. F. of L. You are not sure of that ?
Mr. Boorstin. It was my impression it was part of the A. F. of L.
I may have been mistaken in that, but it is my impression.
Mr. Walter. It was a component part of the Teachers' Union and
the Teachers' Union was an affiliate of the A. F. of L. ?
Mr. Boorstin. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Mr. Kearney. It was a national organization ?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
COMMTHSriST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 55
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of the local Teachers'
Union ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Wliat part did the Communist Party play in your
becoming a member of the union ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I can't remember, sir. I may have become a mem-
ber before I joined the group. I don't recall.
Mr. TA\'EN]srER. Was there any effort made by members of the
Communist Party to require all of its members to be members of that
particular union?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I don't recall any requirement, but it is my impres-
sion that most of the members of the group were members of the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you at any time take part in a caucus of Com-
munist Party members of the local union to decide ahead of meetings
what action should be taken in the meetings ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I was unaware of a special caucus, if there was one,
but the meetings of the local Communist group would discuss this,
among other things.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate at any time to a district con-
vention or a national convention of the Teachers' Union ?
Mr. BoORSTiN. Not to the best of my recollection. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in any other meetings of any
other groups at the instance of the Communist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Not that I can recall. No, sir. Except the Teachers'
Union.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Did you belong to any other groups? Did you join
any other groups as far as you can now recall ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I can't recall for sure, but I think I may have been
a member of other groups.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Let me ask you specifically about this one: Were
3^ou affiliated in any way with the American League for Peace and
Democracy ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Not to the best of mv recollection. No, sir.
Mr. Ta^t:nner. Did you miite with the American Peace Mobiliza-
tion?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir. Not so far as I can recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you belong to more than one group of the
Communist Party — were you at any time assigned to a group differ-
ent than the one you first united with ?
Mr. Boorstin. I was never assigned to any group. I was not a
member of any other group than that one which I have mentioned.
No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How many composed the group at Harvard ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I wouldn't remember precisely, but I would guess it
was somewhere around eight or a dozen, approximately.
Mr. Tavenner. Were they restricted to any particular group at
Harvard ?
Mr. Boorstin. It was my impression that most of them were in
some way or other connected with Harvard University.
Mr. Tavenner. Were any students of the university members of
the group ?
56 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. BooRSTiN. Not to the best of my recollection. It may have been
that some of the people in the lower instructional capacities may also
have been completing- their graduate work at Harvard at that time.
Mr. Kearney. They were mostly teachers and instructors ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir. Of a lower status of instructors, as I
recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
Israel Halperin — H-a-1-p-e-r-i-n ?
Mr. EooRSTiN. I recall only having seen him during these meetings
of this group. I have not seen him since then — since 1939.
Mr. TA\TiNNER. What was his position at the university ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I don't know precisely. He may have been an
instructor.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he still a member of that group at the time
you left it in September 1939 ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. To the best of my recollection. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever have occasion at a later date to discuss
with any former member, or any member of that group, the activities
of Mr. Halperin in Canacla ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir. Not with a member of that group. I have
not discussed matters of communism with any of those people since
then. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever solicited for funds for the benefit of
Mr. Halperin or any other person in Canada ?
Mr. Boorstin. Not to the best of my recollection. If I was solicited
I didn't contribute.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Jack Eackliffe —
R-a-c-k-1-i-f-f-e?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir,
Mr. Tavenner. What was his position in the university ?
Mr. Boorstin. I believe he was an instructor.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of this group of which you were
a member ?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he still a member at the time you left the party
in September 1939?
Mr. Boorstin. I don't recall for a fact, sir.
Mr. Walter. How many counselors were members of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Boorstin. Granville Hicks is the only one I can recall in the
group.
Mr. Kearney. How many counselors were there altogether?
Mr. Boorstin. I think there may have been 10 or a dozen.
Mr, Kearney. Was tlie party affiliation of Granville Hicks known
to the university authorities?
Mr. Boorstin. To the best of my knowledge it was. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney, In other words, if he were writing articles for certain
newspapers it certainly should have been general knowledge.
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know w^hether the two persons that I first
asked you about, Mr. Richard Schlatter and Mr. Goodwin, were mem-
bers of the party at the time you left the party in September 1939 ?
Mr. Boorstin. Were they still members or did they remain mem-
bers?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 57
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I want to ask you both questions. Were they
still members and did they remain members ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. As I can recall, they were members at the tnne I
was a member. I do not know what they did thereafter, and I have
not discussed political matters with them.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Counsel, how would the witness know if they
remained members of the Communist Party after he had left the
party?
Mr. Tavenner. We had the testimony here yesterday of the witness,
Mr. Davis, that he knew that some of the persons he had named had
withdrawn from the party, and he gave various reasons for knowing
some of them withdrew after he did and some before he did. I thought
this witness might know the circumstances if he was well acquainted
with one or more of these individuals, and I think I should say that
the committee has information that Mr. Richard Schlatter has with-
drawn from the party and that he did withdraw back about very
close to the same time this witness states that he did.
Mr. Kearney. That might be true, but what I am confused about
is, if I belonged to an organization and I left, why should I know
of my own knowledge that other members that I knew to be members
at the time I was a member, remained in the organization ?
Mr. Tavenner. That would depend entirely on the type of infor-
mation you have. You might have information that would warrant
you in concluding that the man was no longer a member of the party.
Mr. Kearney. Which would be practically hearsay evidence.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. It would be the only type of evidence I think a per-
son could act upon.
Mr. Clardy. He could know much better whether he was a member
than whether he was not. It is like trying to prove everybody in this
room didn't commit a murder.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. I wonder whether or not, when you became a member
of the Communist Party, was it then generally recognized as a po-
litical party and was it then known or not known as a world move-
ment, or a plan or conspiracy inspired by the Kremlin to dominate
the world ? What was your understanding of that theory of the con-
duct of the Communist Party at that time ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. At that time, as I say, it was the period of the united
front. At that time my understanding, which I have since discovered
to be erroneous, was that they were the most progressive and forward
looking of liberal groups.
Mr. Moulder. Then it is your explanation that your membership
in the Communist Party was because of your interest, or your study,
in the principles or philosophy of a government as then being pro-
posed by the Communist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir. Excuse me, sir. It was primarily an inter-
est in a theory of history — the materialist interpretation of history —
together with the feeling that these people were at that time standing
up for humanitarian causes and fighting anti-Semitism in Nnzi Ger-
many, for example.
Mr. Scherer. Professor, I believe you said that was one of the
primary reasons why you joined the party; that you believed at that
58 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
time that it was opposed to anti-Semitism. Now today you know as
"a matter of fact that instead of being opposed to anti-Semitism the
Communist Party of Russia is violently anti-Semitic.
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. You know that as a matter of fact from your studies ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. Almost as much as the Nazi Party was, or perhaps
even more so ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Clardy. The best reason in the world why that sort of folks
should not go under the Communist Party, is it not?
Mr. Boorstin. Yes, sir. One of many reasons.
Mr. Clardy. I didn't mean to exclude the other important ones.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state. Doctor, just what, in any, influence
this group of Communist Party members exerted over the students
who were members of the classes of various professors, if you know ?
Mr. Boorstin. As a matter of fact, it was a curious sort of thing,
as I think Mr. Davis said yesterday, that there was, as best as I can
recall, never an effort made to affect what one said in the classroom,
or to the student. Nevertheless, the fact that members of the faculty
were interested politically and lent their names to political groups
may have affected the attitudes of students.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it openly known in the university that there
was a Communist Party cell within the faculty members — among most
of the faculty members ?
Mr. Boorstin. I think it was generally known. There was a great
deal of hocus-pocus connected with the group, but I think it was gen-
erally known that this was
Mr. Moulder. The point I tried to make a moment ago was that
your becoming a member of that cell was as much for the purpose of
promoting the influence of the Communist Party, or was it for your
own discussion as a student and in the study of it ?
Mr, Boorstin, I think it was primarily the latter, sir.
Mr. Walter. If it was the latter, then why was there all this hocus-
pocus, and why did everybody conceal the fact that they were mem-
bers of this party? You know that isn't the fact. You know the
reason why there was all this hocus-pocus is because you all had a feel-
ing you were participating in some sort of a movement that was per-
haps slightly un-American. Isn't that the fact?
Mr. Boorstin. I think, Mr. Walter, the secrecy was part of the ap-
peal of it also; especially to young people. That it had a kind of
lodgelike appeal. And I think all of the members — I certainly had
the impression what I was doing was not illegal, and I saw no illegal
acts committed, but the notion that there was a cozy little group of
people who had this certain rigmarole was part of the appeal.
Mr, Kearney, While you were a member of the party were you
ever addressed at any of your meetings by any high functionaries
of the party ?
Mr, Boorstin. My only recollection of that kind was that there was
a representative, Frankfeld I think was his name
Mr, Kearney, The same name that was mentioned here yesterday ?
Mr, Boorstin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. Phil Frankfeld?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 59
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir. To the best of my recollection. And he
came to these meetings and attempted to discuss the .books and talk
about the policies of the group.
Mr. Walter. Did he discuss revolution?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Not to the best of my recollection. The level of that
discussion and his general approach to these problems was one of the
things — one of the many things that disgusted me with the group.
Mr. Walter. I have been curious to know whether or not the teach-
ings of Frankfeld recently would have been any different than those
that you knew about ? I say that because he was recently sentenced
to the penitentiary for those teachings.
Mr. BooRSTiN. I am sorry, sir. I haven't seen him since 1939, and
I had very slight contact with him then — only in these meetings.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, do I understand from your statement made
a while ago that you are no longer a member of the party, that you
have not only done so because of the anti-Semitic angle, but also be-
cause you now reject the theory of Marxism and all those things that
you were studying at the time ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Clardy. In other words, you have come to realize at last that
they were fallacious and that they were not good for America, and you
quit the party ?
Mr. BooRSTiisr. Yes, sir. I consider that a part of the process of
growing up.
Mr. Clardy. And your thought of the influence of groups of that
kind you did belong to was that they were bad for America and should
be disbanded ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes. sir.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know whether Frankfeld was ever a student
in any university ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir. I do not.
Mr. I^arney. Do you know, as a matter of fact, whether he ever
attended any of the common schools or not ?
Mr. BooRSTTN. No, sir. I do not.
Mr. Kearney. And still he addressed university professors at
Harvard ?
Mr. Clardy. Of course, JVIr. Lattimore never received a degree any-
where either, but he parades as a doctor.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were the circumstances which induced you to
leave the Communist Party ? Wliat occurred to make you change your
mind?
Mr. Boorstin. Well, Mr. Tavenner, it was a growing disgust with
the way of thinking and the attitudes of people in the group. The
most dramatic event which brought it out into the open was the Nazi-
Soviet Pact, which revealed both the willingness of the Soviet Union
to collaborate with nazism and the intellectual bankruptcy of the
American Communists who switched their line around according to
what tlie Daily Worker said.
As I recall, the day after the Nazi-Soviet Pact, or just about then,
the Communists denied everything they had been saying for years.
Mr. Scherer. Could I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Professor, do you feel today than an active member
of the Communist Party should be a teacher in our public schools ?
Mr. Boorstin. No, sir.
60 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. ScuERER. Do you feel that he should be a teacher in our colleges ?
Mr, BooRSTiN. In any area where I have any expert competence, that
is, in the area of the humanities and social sciences, my answer would
be no.
Mr, Clardy, For the same reasons you gave to me a moment ago ?
Mr, BooRSTiN. Yes. sir.
Mr. Walter. But, Doctor, don't you recognize the fact that students
have such a high regard, even awe, for professors, and take a profes-
sor of trigonometry, for example, that it would create such an impres-
sion on a young man that if he were to indicate something or other
that was not proper — something political — wouldn't that young man
be apt to accept the suggestions made by that professor? And sup-
pose that that professor engaged in any extracurricular activities ?
The fact that he had created an impression on his students I should
think would make him a very strong force in the community in which
he did lecture, among other things.
Mr. BooRSTiN. Mr. Walter, my feeling about the matter is that no
one should be employed to teach in a university who was not free in-
tellectually ; and in my opinion membership in the Communist Party
would be virtually conclusive evidence that a person was not intellec-
tually free,
Mr, ScHERER. He would also believe in the overthrow of the Ameri-
can Government by force and violence if he was an active Communist
Party member, as I asked, wouldn't he ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. It is my impression that the Supreme Court has
held that leadership in the Communist Party is participation in a
conspiracy,
Mr, Clardy. It was Hitler's theory to seize the minds of the youth
by the method we have been talking about ; was it not ?
Mr. BooRSTiN, Yes, sir.
Mr. Clardy. That is one of the reasons why I take it you have an-
swered as you did to the good questions asked by Mr. Walter?
Mr. BooRSTiN, Yes, sir,
Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to say that since 1944 you have
been engaged in teaching at the University of Chicago ?
]\Ir. BooRSTiN, Yes, sir,
Mr. Ta\^nner. Have you had any affiliation of any character with
the Communist Party while at the University of Chicago ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. While at Chicago you have written the' books and
have taken the action that you have described as being in opposition
to tlie Communist Party ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other activities that you have engaged
in since being at Cliicago which would be in opposition to the Com-
munist Party, and of which you have not told us ?
INIr. BooRSTiN. Not that I can recall, sir. I am not basically a polit-
ical person and I am not active politically. I do feel that the most
effective way to fight communism is — the one effective way in which
I may have some competence is by helping people to understand the
virtues of our institutions and their special values as those emerged
from our history, and I have tried to do that.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to see if I understand you correctly in your
answers to various questions by members of the committee.
COatMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 61
Do I correctly understand that you are definitely of the opinion
that no person should be employed as a teacher in our educational
system who is subject to the discipline and the directives of the Com-
munist Party because they are not free to act? Is that in substance
your view ?
Mr. BooRSTiN. I think a member of the Communist Party should
not be employed by a university. I would not hire such a person if
I were a university president,
Mr. Velde. I think, Mr. Counsel, the witnesses has made himself
clear on that point. Let us proceed along further.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. Just two questions. How old were you when you
were in Oxford ?
Mr. BooKSTiN. About 21.
Mr. Kearney. How old were you when you joined the Communist
Party at Harvard?
Mr. BoORSTiN. About 23 or 24.
Mr. Kearney. That is all.
Mr. CiiARDY. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. "Witness, as I understand it, it is obviously your con-
clusion now that the woi-k this committee is undertaking is serving a
good purpose, but I would like to have you tell us whether you do
actually agree.
Mr. BooRSTiN. Well, I think this is the second day of the public hear-
ings and I think that the committee should be judged by the record
which it makes.
Mr. Clardy. If we continue on the line we have followed would
you agree with us and the witness yesterday that it does serve a use-
ful purpose?
Mr. BooRSTiN. It is not for me to judge, sir. I have had little ex-
j)erience with legislation. I can't see — I can't myself think of any
legislation that would serve these purposes at the moment, but I
am not expert in this field and I am afraid I just wouldn't be able
to help you.
Mr. Clardy. To carry it one step further in the same general direc-
tion then, has there been anything that you have heard thus far, either
in your own examination or that of Mr. Davis of yesterday, that in any
way impinged upon tliis vague thing we call academic freedom, in
your judgment?
Mr. BooRSTiN. The committee has been extremely courteous to me,
sir.
Mr. Clardy. Well, answer my question directly, if you can.
Mr. BooRSTiN. This committee has not in any way impinged on my
academic freedom. No, sir.
Mr. Clardy. I think tliat is all I have.
(Eepresentatives Francis E. Walter and James B. Frazier, Jr..
left the hearing room.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. I have no further questions.
30172 — 53 5
62 COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. Dr. Boorstin, you also have contributed gi-eatly to the
fund of knowledge that this committee has in turning to the activities
of the Communist Party in England and the Communist Party of
the United States; and the activities of the Soviet Government gen-
erally to overthrow our form of government.
I would like to thank you for coming before tlie committee and if
you return to the University of Chicago, which happens to be in my
home State, I am sure you will be able to give jonr students and pupils
some of the same information which you have given to this committee
so ably, and that you will be able to convince the students who are in
your classes, and with whom you come in contact, that the Soviet
Govermnent is out to destroy our form of government.
Thank you kindly.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Wendell H. Furry.
Mr. Velde. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon a recess was had.)
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Counsel, who is the next witness, please?
(Representative Francis E. Walter returned to hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Wendell H. Furry, please.
Mr. Velde. Will you stand to be sworn ?
In the testimony you are about to give before this committee do you
solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Furry. I do.
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point that Mr. Kearney,
Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Moulder, and the chairman are pres-
ent — a full quorum — and also Mr. Walter is present.
TESTIMONY OF WENDELL HINKLE FTJRRY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, JOSEPH FOREE
Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please?
Mr. FuRKY. Wendell Hinkle Furry.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell both first and last names?
Mr. Furry. W-e-n-d-e-1-1 F-u-r-r-y.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented or accompanied by counsel?
Mr. Furry. I am, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, please, sir ?
Mr. Furry. On February 18, 1007, in Prairieton, Ind.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ?
Mr. Furry. Associate professor of physics at Harvard University.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you state for the committee, please, what
your educational training has been?
Mr. Furry. Public schools and high school until 1024; Depauw
University, Greencastle, Ind., 1024-28; University of Illinois, 1028-
32; received a degree of doctor of philosophy in 1032; 2 years as
National Research Council fellow at the University of California
and California Institute of Technology ending in 1034.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you state briefly what your record of em-
ployment has been since the completion of your formal education?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 63
Mr. Furry. Instructor of physics at Harvard University, INSI-
ST; assistant professor, 1937—1:0; associate professor, 1940 to present,
except for 2 years' leave of absence during the war.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the years when you were given a leave
of absence?
Mr. Furry. In the fall of 1943 to the fall of 1945.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Armed Forces during
that period of time ?
Mr. Furry. I was not.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you on any particular assignment or duty
with the Government during that period of time ?
Mr. Furry. I was not employed by the Government.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you under any assignment performing any
services for the Government, whether employed by it or not?
Mr. Furry. I was employed by the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology as a research associate under a contract with the Na-
tional Defense Research Committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were your services performed?
Mr. Furry. In the buildings of the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, in the so-called radiation laboratory.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period did you have occasion to go
to the west coast in connection with your official duties?
Mr. Furry. I did not. M}' duties never took me to the west
coast.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state, please, for the committee, what
fraternal or professional organizations you are a member of?
Mr. Furry. The Harvard Faculty Club; the American Physical
Society; the American Association of Physics Teachers — I am afraid
my dues are in arrears — the American Association for the Advance-
ment of Science; the American Association of Scientific Workers —
dues also in arrears, I believe; and at the moment I can't think of
any others.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a member of the Ameri-
can Association of Scientific Workers?
Mr. Furry. Well, I think up to the last year or two I have kept my
dues paid up. Ever since the organization was formed in 1937 or 1938.
Mr. Walter. Are you a member of the Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Furry. I was. That is now nonexistent at Harvard.
ISIr. Walter. During what period were you a member of the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Fltjry. I believe I joined that in either 1937 or 1938, and I
withdrew in a friendly Avay while I was at Massachusetts Institute
of Technology during the war. I may have paid a year or two
dues after I came back to Harvard after the war.
Mr. Clardy. What year was that you said you withdrew?
Mr. Furry. In 1943. I withdrew from both the Harvard Faculty
Club and the Teachers' Union at Harvard when I was at MIT.
Mr. Clardy. But you were at MIT at the time ?
Mr. Furry. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Would you mind telling us what the nature of your
work was at MIT, Doctor?
Mr. Furry. This was a radar laboratory. I was a member of the
radar group which was supposed to work on the various theoretical
64 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
•
problems which came up in connection with electromagnetic plie-
Jiomena used in radar. My particular work was practically entirely
concerned with the propagation of radio waves in the atmosphere.
Mr. ScHEREK. Did it have anything to do with the war effort or
defense effort at that time ?
Mr. Furry. It was intended to. The problems were extremely
difficult. We accomplished a good deal, but I don't believe anybody
concerned with it would have said we arrived at a solution that was
of complete practical usefulness at the time that our efforts ceased at
the end of the war.
Mr. SciiERER. The conclusions you reached in that study — were they
transmitted to the Government of the United States?
Mr. Furry. Of course they were. They were also published in a
book published by the McGraw-Hill Publishing Co. and sold for
$10.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe to the committee, please, just
what the course of your duties were while an instructor at Harvard
when you began back, I believe, in 1934. You were an instructor, and
what other duties did you have ?
Mr. P^URRY. I was instructor and tutor. This means that under
the tutorial system which existed in Harvard at that time I Jield
individual conferences Avith students on reading that was supposed to
be outside their formal course work, but on the general subject of
physics. This went on for 2 or 3 years.
I didn't derive very much satisfaction out of it. Like very many
other people in the physical sciences in Harvard, I didn't find much
satisfaction in this particular sort of thing. Either the jDoorer stu-
dents got obviously nothing out of it, or the better students were so
busy trying to make good grades in their courses that they found it
only a difficulty to have this. The department eventually dropped this
sort of thing.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien did it drop that, type of work ?
Mr. Furry. I don't exactly remember. Certainly it dropped it —
first it cut it down, of course, and then by the time I got back after
the war, it was gone, and nobody was sorry.
Mr. Tavenni-:r. Would you say that that system continued up until
the time that you went to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology ?
Mr. Furry. I don't believe it did in our department.
Mr. Tavenner. How close to the time when you went to the Mas-
sachusetts Institute of Technology did that continue?
Mr. Furry. Well, sir, I honestly don't know. This could be, of
course, established from Harvard University records.
Mr. Tavenner. We want you to help us as far as you can.
Mr. Furry. Yes. I would say that probably by 1938 or 1939 the
thing was on its last legs in our department.
Mr. Tavenner. After that time were you a counselor of any type
to students?
]\Ir. P'uRRY. Well, everybody — almost everybody on the faculty has
a number of students assigned to him with whom he consults on the
choice of courses. This is called an adviser and this is the only func-
tion of the adviser — to discuss what the choice of courses to be taken
by the student should be. This usually involves an interview in the
fall and another interview during the time of the second half year
about the choice of courses.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 65
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve as a counselor or adviser to students
in any other capacity at any time prior to your going to the Massachu-
setts Institute of Technology ?
JNIr. Furry. I don't remember it, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to return now to this American Asso-
ciation of Scientific "Workers. Did you ever hold an official position
in that group?
Mr. Furry. I was treasurer of the Cambridge group during 1939^0,
as I remember ; and I was chairman of the executive committee, as it
was called — the organization had no president in Cambridge — in
1940-41 ; and as I remember it, I was again chairman in 1948-49.
Mr. Tavexxer. Describe a little more fully to us the organizational
structure of the American Association of Scientific Workers.
Mr. Furry. "Well, it was always a little bit weak in organizational
structure, I suppose you would say. It was composed of a bunch of
physicians, instructors, industrial-scientific workers, and so on, in the
Boston area, who were interested in discussing various problems con-
nected with the applications of science and their social implications.
These people ])aid dues of, I believe $2.50 a year, when they got
around to it, and the organization tried to organize public meetings
to which everj^body was invited, and have speakers on topics that were
expected to be of general interest.
Mr. Tavexner. "Was the Cambridge branch a local group of the
national organization?
Mr. Fr-RRY. It was. I was never an officer of the national organi-
zation. I don't believe I ever attended a meeting of an international
group of it. It was my impression always that the national organi-
zation was also rather weak in its organizational phase.
Mr. Tavexxer. Do you recall whether a person by the name of
Israel Halperin was a member of that organization?
Mr. Furry. He was one of the original members when it was formed
in 1937-38. Sometime during that school year, probably. And he
was treasurer of the organization until he left Harvard, after which
I succeeded him as treasurer.
I should remark — it just occurred to me — during the time — some-
time during or about the time that I was treasurer of the Boston-
Cambridge group, or possibly during the time I was chairman of the
executive committee for the first time in 1939, 1940, or 1941 — sometime
around there — I also served, I believe, for 1 year as treasurer of the
national organization.
The national organization didn't amount to very much at the time.
I don't remember attending any meetings of national officers, or any-
thing. I did receive certain money and kept a record of it and sent
it on to the next person who became national treasurer after me.
This is a little correction in my statement that I wasn't a national
officer.
Mr. Tavex^ner. Then you attended national conventions of that
organization ?
Mr. Furry. No: I didn't.
Mr. Tavexx^er. You did not?
Mr. Furry. As treasurer I don't even remember meeting with the
national officers. It is possible my memory is wrong, but I don't be-
lieve it is. I did, of course, from time to time, when present at meet-
ings of the American Association for the Advancement of Science,
'to
66 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
which holds Large conventions every year — once or twice the Ameri-
can Association of Scientific Workers, which was and I believe still
is an affiliated society of the American Association for the Advance-
ment of Science — held public meetings during the time of the triple
A-S conventions, and I attended some of those ; but those were large,
open affairs not confined to officers or even members.
Mr. Tavenxer. Well, Dr. Furry, we heard testimony here yester-
day from a person who admitted that he was a member of the Com-
mmiist Party cell composed exclusively of members of the faculty or
the teachers at Harvard to the effect that Israel Halperin and others
of the scientists within that group were requested by the Communist
Party to join this organization which you have just been describing,
that is, the Cambridge branch of the American Association of Scien-
tific Workers. Do you know of any person who joined that organiza-
tion other than Mr. Halperin, who was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Furry. Is my answer to that intended to imply that Mr. Hal-
perin was?
Mr. Tavenner. No; I have specifically excluded Mr. Halperin
from your answer by stating other than Mr. Halperin.
Mr. Furry. I cannot remember any person whom I believe to have
been instructed by the Communist Party to join that.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, at this point I will have to leave and I
will appoint ]\Ir. Kearney as the chairman of the committee for the
purposes of further proceedings.
(Representative Harold H. Velde left the hearing room at this
point.)
(Representative Bernard W. Kearney assumed the chair.)
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I don't believe I recall the answer. Will you
please read it ?
(The reporter read the answer as follows : "I cannot remember any
person whom I believe to have been instructed by the Communist
Party to join that.")
Mr. Ta^-enner. Well, do you know whether or not any members of
the Communist Party at Harvard did join that organization, that is,
the Cambridge branch of the American Association of Scientific
Workers ?
Mr. Furry. Sir, this question obviously tends to inquire into my
beliefs in associations. I do not believe that this committee has or any
congressional committee has the right to make such inquiry, or that in
America there can be any governmental body that has a right to
inquire
Mr. Kearney (presiding). I am going to instruct the witness to
answer the questions and not make a speech.
Mr. Furry. Sir, on the grounds of my rights as a citizen under the
first amendment, rights of free speech and assembly, and my rights and
my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness against
myself, I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Clardy. Do you know the answer to the question ?
Mr. Furry. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Clardy. Do you have any knowledge whatsoever on the subject?
Mr. Furry. I decline to answer that on the same gTounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you know whether or not Israel Halperin
was a member of the Communist Party at Harvard?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 67
Mr, Furry. I decline to answer that on the grounds I have stated
before.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Furry, are you acquainted with
Mr. Kearxet. You mean the fifth amendment, on the grounds — —
Mr. Furry. I mean all of the grounds I stated before.
Mr. Kearney. And specifically relying on the fifth amendment
Mr. Furry. Including that.
Mr. Kearney. On the ground that it might incriminate you if you
answer ?
Mr. Furry. It is sometimes referred to in that way.
Mr. Clardy. That is the language of the amendment, isn't it, or are
you familiar with it ?
Mr. Furry. I don't believe either the words the gentleman used or
the words I used are the exact words of the amendment.
Mr. Clardy. I guess you haven't read the same Constitution I have
then.
Mr. Kearney. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Furiy, are you acquainted with the Roj^al Cana-
dian Commission's report on Soviet espionage activities in that coun-
try and the trials of Allan Nunn May and others which were held
there ?
Mr. Furry. I am familiar with the report. I have read a good deal
of it. I am not very familiar with the trial of Dr. May, which I be-
lieve was held in England.
Mr. TA^-ENNER. What was your interest in those trials ?
Mr. Furry. I had a direct interest because Mr. Halperin, one of the
defendants, was my wife's sister's husband.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in the solicitation of funds for his
defense at Cambridge ?
Mr. Furry. Not very actively. I mentioned to some people that I
believed to have been friends of his this difficulty, and funds were
given by various people with the intention of helping out Mr.
Halperin as a personal and professional friend for whom they had
esteem and for helping out his family in this difficulty.
This was never referred to, to my knowledge, as a defense fund and
no Dolitical implications were attached to contributions to it.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you participate in any way in the raising of
funds for any other of the defendants ?
Mr. Furry. I did not.
Mr. FoRER. Excuse me. Would you mind asking what happened
to Mr. Halperin's trial ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would be very glad to.
Mr. Forer. Thank you.
Mr. Clardy. Counsel, may I interject?
The question was a little bit vague and so was the answer.
Did you personally contribute ?
Mr. Furry. Yes, to a certain extent.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you serve on a committee composed of three
members which was appointed for the purpose of studying those
trials ?
Mr. Furry. I can't recall such a circumstance, sir. Maybe if you
will ask a little more definitely I might know what you're asking
about.
68 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you and other persons engage in a system-
atic study of the trials ?
Mr. Furry. It may have been that for the purpose of reporting to
the American Association of Scientific Workers' Cambridge group.
At a meeting this was a subject of public interest — a little different no
doubt from most of the subjects, but still one of public interest on
which we might hold a meeting. It may have been I agreed to
participate in such a meeting and studied it for that purpose. I don't
recall actually whether that happgned or not.
Mr. Tavenner. "V\nio participated in that project with you?
Mr. Furry. AVell, I've already said I don't remember any such
details. I studied this thing very carefully because of my own per-
sonal interest in the case ; and if I were asked to make a speech on it,
I was pretty well prepared without any special study for the speech.
Mr. Waltj:r. What was Halperin charged with, Doctor ?
Mr. Furry. With violation of the Official Secrets Act.
Mr. Walter. What happened at his trial ?
Mr. Furry. His trial was delayed for nearly a year, always at the
request of the Crown. When he was brought to trial, the judge —
he had asked for a speedy trial without a jury, in order to secure a
fast trial, which the Crown thwarted him in doing — the judge heard
the Crown's case, which was not very extensive, retired to his chambers
for awhile, called the court into session again and stated there was no
need to hear a case for the defense, that he would find for acquittal
immediately.
Mr. Tavenner. And the case was, therefore, dropped without a
trial?
Mr. Furry. That is right. No — not without a trial. There had
been a trial. The Crown's case had been presented, but it was dropped
without
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the Crown found for the defendant ?
Mr. Walter. Similar to our procedure of a directed verdict of not
guilty ?
Mr. Furry. That is right.
Mr. Taatenner. Do you knoAv the cause of that?
Mr. Furry. It has always been my belief, sir, that Mr. Halperin
was entirely innocent.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised by Mr. Halperin that the charges
against him or that the case was decided as it was because Capt.
Gordon Loonin, who was tried and sentenced for 5 years, refused to
testify ?
Mr. Furry. Mr. Halperin did not advise me that was the reason.
He never gave me an}' reason at all to think he was anything but
completely innocent.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Counsel
Mr. Furry. I was, of course, acquainted with this circumstance you
refer to.
Mr. Kearney. Just a minute, Mr. Witness.
Mr. Counsel, what difference does it make if the defendant was
found not guilty?
Mr. Walit^r. Certainly. We are not trying him here, or are we ?
Mr. Kearney. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Civil Rights
Congress ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 69
Mr. Furry. I don't think I would be called a member of it exactly
at any time. I did agree in a telephone conversation with some young
lady to have my name appear as a sponsor at a meeting they held in
Boston some years ago — the first sizable meeting they held, I believe.
I saw the call to that meeting, the list of sponsors and attended part
of one session of the meeting. I decided I did not want to be further
associated with it and have not been.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Were you at any time connected in any way with
the Samuel Adams School, or lectured there?
Mr. Furry. In the fall and winter of 1946, when public interest in
atomic energy was very high and scientists were making speeches on
the right and left, I was, too, although I had no official knowledge
of the subject, just general background in physics. I was requested
to give a course of, I believe, six talks or lectures in evenings at this
school.
I did so.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Herbert Philbrick
during that period of time when you were giving those lectures at
the Samuel Adams School?
Mr. Furry. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds
I have stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Philbrick testified before the committee to the
effect that the Samuel Adams School was created and controlled by
the Communist Party and that, while there were a few non-Commu-
nist instructors on the faculty, the majority of the instructors were
members of the Communist Party. Do you agree with that statement
by Mr. Philbrick?
Mr. Furry. Sir, my connection with the school and my knowledge
from it — of it— was never extensive enough for me to be able to form
an opinion on that. It was confined essentially to this one request —
to give a series of talks that lasted — that occurred once a week for
about 6 weeks.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you affiliated at any time with American
Youth for Democracy?
Mr. Furry. I was not, sir.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Were you adviser at any time to a group of that
organization ?
Mr. Furry. I cannot recall that I ever was. If I was, it was simply
a matter like my agreeing to sponsor the Civil Eights Congress meet-
ing, which I do remember — namely, a matter of my being requested
over the telephone or by somebody who came to my office, seemed like
a nice fellow. I may have possibly given my name in a rather inactive
way like that at some time. I can't remember.
Mr. Ta\t2nner. Were you acquainted with Prof. J. B. S. Haldane ?
Mr. Furry. I do not believe — I'm not acquainted with him.
Mr. Ta\tnner. Editor of the London Worker ?
Mr. Furry. I'm not acquainted with him. I believe I have heard
liim talk on one occasion — that is, give a speech.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that in this country or in England?
Mr. Furry. It was in this country.
Mr. ISIouLDER. I don't recall whether Mr. Tavenner asked you
whether or not you are not a member of the Communist Party.
Did you ask that ?
70 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. No ; I have not.
Mr. Moulder. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I have stated
before.
Mr. Kearney. If you were not a member of the Communist Party,
would you so state ?
Mr. Furry. Your question, sir?
Mr. Kearney. I say if you were not a member of the Communist
Party, would you so state to this committee?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that on the grotmds I have stated
before.
Mr. Clardy. If you were granted immunity, would you answer the
question ?
Mr. Furry. It is my impression, sir, that the committee has no
power to
Mr. Clardy. Answer the question, if you please. Don't lecture us.
You can answer that "Yes" or "No" or stand on the ground you have
indicated, if you wish.
Mr. Furry. If I could be granted immunity sufficiently — sufficient
immunity to remove my grounds for answering the question, I will
answer it.
Mr. Clardy. What are the grounds for asking for immunity then?
Mr. Furry. I am not asking for immunity.
Mr. Clardy. I say — what w^ould be the grounds? You said if it
was broad enough you would answer the question. Now, what is it
you are afraid of, sir ?
Mr. Kearney. You may confer with counsel on that question.
Mr. Clardy. Surely.
Mr. Furry. Beg pardon.
Mr. Kearney. You may confer with the counsel.
Mr. Furry. Well, I must refuse to answer that on the grounds I
have already stated.
Mr. Clardy. In other words, you will not explain to us anything
about whether you are under indictment, whether you are under
apprehension of indictment or any of those things ? Do I understand
that to be the nature of your refusal, sir ?
Mr. Furry, Any person brought before an interrogation of this
kind, no matter how innocent he may be, is likely to feel some appre-
hension. I think that's obvious.
Mr. Clardy. Now, just come back to my question.
Mr. Furry. I am refusing to answer the question on such
grounds
Mr. Clardy. Are you at present
Mr. Furry. Beg pardon.
Mr. Clardy. Are you at present under indictment anywhere ?
Mr. Furry. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Clardy. Are you under an investigation by any body. State or
Federal, anywhere ?
Mr. Furry. I have been given no evidence that I am — that I
Mr. Clardy. Your apprehension is not based upon anything tangi-_
ble, then, is it?
Mr. Furry. I expect
Mr. Kearney. The Chair will rule these questions are not fair and
are improper.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 71
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I am seeking to discover whether or
not he has a frivolous ground upon which he is standing and, while
I bow to the ruling of the Chair, I want to ask him one more.
Witness, have you ever belonged to any organization dedicated
primarily to the upholding of the Constitution and our form of gov-
ernment ? If so, tell us what it was.
Mr. Kearney. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Walter. In your judgment, was the Teachers' Union dedicated
to perpetuation of the system of our Republic?
Mr. Furry. The Teachers' Union was dedicated to the study of prob-
lems and there were very real problems — they were recognized both
among the staff and among the administration of Harvard — problems
concerned with the tenure, the promotion, the various circumstances
of work of tlie teachers at Harvard.
Mr. Walter. Is that the extent of your discussion in the field you
have just mentioned?
Mr. Furry. Well, of course, the Teachers' Union was an organiza-
tion that held meetings during times in all sorts — when all sorts of
political affairs were taking place. These came into discussion sev-
eral times. There could be no question of that. They would in any
organization.
Mr. Walter. So that the Teachers' Union did discuss things other
than the welfare of teachers ?
Mr. Furry. Of course, but that was its basic
Mr. Walter. That was its basic
Mr. Furry. Purpose.
Mr. Walter. But actually the discussions at the meetings of the
Teachei's' Union invariably were on things political ; is that right ?
Mr. Furry. By no means invariably, sir ; occasionally.
Mr. Walter. Occasionally.
Mr. Kearxey. Are you aware that the caucuses held by the Com-
munist Party members of the Teachers' Union were designed to con-
trol its activity ?
Mr. Furry. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds
that I have stated before.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Have you traveled in any foreign countries ?
Mr. Furry. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state when and where?
Mr. Furry. Do you mean Europe or also Canada and Mexico ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, we'll eliminate Canada — no; we will not.
When were you in Canada ?
Mr. Furry. Well, I have been in Canada a number of times to visit
the Halperin family, and also probably little sightseeing trips to
Niagara Falls and things like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did JNIr. Halperin live at the time you visited
him in Canada ?
Mr. Furry. In Kingston, Ontario.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that prior to the trials that we were speak-
ing of?
Mr. Furry. My father-in-law and I visited the Halperin family
in the fall of 1946 while the Crown was still securing postponements
of his trial. Since that time almost every summer my family has
visited with his family for a short time.
72 COMMUNIST AIETHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavexner. Well, my question was whether or not you visited
there prior to the trials ?
Mr. Furry. I visited along with my father-in-law, but no others
of my family. We visited the Halperin family in Kingston once in
the fall of 1946 when he was under indictment but had not come to
trial.
Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that you had not visited him?
Mr. Furry. No ; I had not been in Canada for the purpose of visit-
ing him before.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, had you visited him before ?
Mr. Furry. I don't think you would say I visited him. In 1942,
before he entered the Canadian Army, he and his wife and my wife
and I visited my father-in-law's x^lace simultaneously in the United
States.
Mr. Tavenner. But my question related to Canada.
Mr. Furry. That's right.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Well, did you visit in his home in Canada prior to
his indictment in the Canadian
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Case ?
Mr. Furry. I did not.
Mr. TA^^:NXER. What European countries did you visit, and when ?
Mr. Furry. I made two trips to Europe in 1938 and 1950. In 1938
I visited Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, the U. S. S. R., Den-
mark, England, and France.
In 1950 I lived for 5 months at Denmark and visited in Sweden
for a few days.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet Prof. J. B. S. Ilaldane on either of
those trips ?
]Mr. Fi'RRY. Not to my knowledge, sir. In my 1938 trip I attended
a meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science
in Cambridge, England. It is just possible I was given an introduc-
tion to Mr. Haldane at the meeting. If so, I don't remember.
(Representative INIorgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Tavenner. Was your trip to Europe in 1950 the result of being
awarded a grant by an}^ foundation ?
Mr. Furry. Yes ; the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Founda-
tion awarded me a grant about sufficient to cover travel expenses for
my family.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien was that grant awarded you ?
Mr. Furry. At the time all other grants for that year were an-
nounced; in April or May of 1949.
INIr. Tavenner. Will you describe to the committee the ste]3S that
were necessary to be taken in connection with the awarding of a grant
of that character?
(Representative Morgan M. Moulder reentered the hearing room
at this point.)
]\Ir. Furry. In the fall of 1949 a colleague of mine received a request
from the Guggenheim Foundation that he inform them of people who
miglit be suitable people to be awarded grants.
I have since received these requests myself, being now a past fellow
of tlie foundation.
COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 73
He asked around among his acquaintances at Harvard as to who
miglit be interested and I told him that I might be. He then gave
my name to tlie foundation. They sent me various documents to fill
oiit indicating what I wanted to do, what my education was, so on ;
asked me also for the names of two or three peoj^le acquainted with
my scientific work and attainments from whom they could secure
reports about me, and I sent all of this material back to them.
Then, some time early in 1950 I received a request for an estimate
of expenses. I was a little at sea as to just how to make this out, but
1 did make out an estimate of the expenses showing about what I sup-
posed it would be and I sent it back to them.
Then, some time in April, I believe it was, they sent me a con-
fidential letter saying I was appointed, but this was not to be re-
leased to the press until such-and-such a date. So, I was just to
send them back my acceptance and say nothing. Then, of course,,
when the date canie they gave the whole list to the papers.
Mr. Taa-enner. Who was the person who recommended you for
tliat appointment or for that award ^
Mr. Furry. Prof. J. H. Van — well, I wouldn't say recommended.
You mean the person who first gave my name ?
Mr. Tavexxer. Yes.
Mr. Furry. Or the first person who recommended
Mr. Tavexxer. The first person
Mr. Furry. The first person who gave my name was Prof. J. H.
Van Black of Harvaid University.
Mr. Tavexxer. When you were awarded that grant, were you
asked the question as to whether or not you were a member of the
Communist Party at that time or at any time prior to that time?
Mr. Furry. If I was, I certainly do not remember it. It is my
belief that there was no such question.
Mr. TA^'ExxER. If you had been asked that question, what would
your answer have been ?
Mr. Furry. Sir, this is rather obvious
Ml". Tavexxer. Yes.
Mr. Furry. A rather obvious question. I will refuse to answer
it on the grounds I have stated before.
Mr. Clardy. Was that long ago enough to have had the statute
run against anything about which you may be apprehensive?
Mr. Furry. I don't know about these statutes and things.
Mr. Clardy. Does your lawyer know ?
Mr. Furry. I am not a lawj^er.
Mr. FoRER. Are you asking •
Mr. Clardy. I am asking
Mr. FoRER. Would von mind savine; what he is to ask what does
his lawyer know?
Mr. Clardy. I just asked him if his attorney knew anything about
the statute of limitations so you can advise him properly.
Mr. FoRER. I would be glad to tell you
Mr. Clardy. No; I don't want you to tell me. Tell the witness.
Mv. Furry. My attorney tells me to tell you he considers himself
well informed on the subject.
^Ir. Clardy. Did he advise on this as to whether the statute liad
run in this case, causing your apprehension, if any?
74 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Furry. I believe that the relation between attorney and client
is privileged.
Mr. Clardt. That's enough.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the amount of the grant which was
a warded you ?
Mr. Furry. $2,000.
Mr. Tavenner. According to the Daily Worker of February 4,
1939, you were one of the signers of an appeal to lift the Spanish
embargo. Will you explain to the committee what interest you
had in this campaign and how _you were approached for your support
in this matter
Mr. Furry. Sir, I
Mr. Ta\t:nner. If you did support it?
Mr. Furry. I certainly cannot remember this individual case or
how I was — or how I may have been approached to give my sig-
nature on this particular occasion. I was vitally concerned about
the defense of the Spanish Republic. I certainly was willing to
give my support to anything tliat I thought might help it. And
I still regard it as a tragedy of history that the Spanish Republic
was not successfully defended.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you as interested in fighting fascism today as
you were then?
Mr. Furry. So far as there is any ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you not think the Soviet Union is now
engaged in the same type of fight, exactly, in connection with the anti-
Semitic campaign in which it is engaged; and, if so, do you oppose
that ?
Mr. Furry. Sir, I have not been able to assure myself of iust what
there is behind these stories of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. If
there is anti-Semitism or fascism there I would oppose it; but I am
not sure on this point.
Mr. Clardy. It isn't to you at all ?
Mr. Furry. It is not obvious to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the National Federation of
Constitutional Liberties at any time?
Mr. Furry. I used to receive an awful lot of their literature through
the mail, sir, and it is possible I made a contribution to them at some
time or another. Whether I was ever called a member — that is,
whether I ever filled out a little blank that said I was becoming a con-
tributing member in return for which I would receive their bulletin or
something, I simply don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. The Worker of July 19, 1942, contained a reproduc-
tion of the letter to the President of the United States, dated June
10, 1942, protesting the ordered deportation issued against ILWU
Leader Harry Bridges. Among the names listed as signers of this
letter is that of Prof. Wendell H. Furry of Harvard University. Will
you explain to the committee how you were approached on this matter
and whether or not you actually signed the petition ?
Mr. Furry. Sir, again my memory simply does not cover this spe-
cific case or how I was approached on it. I can remember, however,
that I opposed the deportation of Mr. Bridges, that I gave my name
to a committee that was opposing it some time about this time.
Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of March 19, 1942, lists you as
one of 38 prominent Massachusetts educators who protested the 4-year
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 75
sentence of Earl Browder for fraudulently executing an application
for passport. Do you recall that?
Let me hand you a photostatic copy of the issue referred to and
ask you if that refreshes your recollection.
Will you point it out to him ?
Mr. FoRER. It is down here.
Mr. Furry. I was just getting a general look of the thing.
I can't remember that I ever saw that report. I can't remember
that I — I can't remember this particular instance, but I remember that
I certainly opposed the heavy sentence to Earl Browder and that I was
willing to give my name to statements opposing it.
Mr. Clardt. Well, were you reading the Daily Worker at about
that time ?
Mr. Furry. I can't remember. I have read the Daily Worker. I
believe I probably wasn't reading it much about that time.
Mr. Walter. Wliat was Browder sentenced for in that case, on that
occasion ?
Mr. Furry. He was sentenced, I believe, for some — what I thought
was a minor slip for false statement on his passport.
Mr. Kearxey. Minor slip?
Mr. Furry. As I remember it, he had been guilty without question,
in previous years of holding passports falsely obtained and under
false names.
Mr. Kearney. You don't call that a minor slip, do you ?
Mr. Furry. No ; I don't call that a minor slip. He would have been
guilty in the early 1920's of that, and these were the only passports he
had ever had.
Mr. Kearkey. In other words
Mr. Furry. When he was applying for a passport again, he used the
word "none" in referring to previous passports, indicating that
Mr. Kearney. In other words, he
Mr. Furry. Indicating that
Mr. Kearney. In other words, indicating he hadn't been caught up
for his previous perjuries?
Mr. Furry. That is right ; not caught up before.
Mr. Kearney. That is a minor slip ?
Mr. Furry. That is a minor slip.
Mr. Clardy. You think the statute of limitations had run against
that?
Mr. Furry. The statute of limitations had run and this was a pre-
text to get around it.
Mr. Walter. If the statute of limitations could run, he certainly
could not have been prosecuted. You know better than that,
Mr. Clardy. He didn't consult with his attorney before he answered
that one.
INIr. Kearney. You knew that Browder was at one time the head of
the Communist Party in this country ?
Mr. Furry. Yes ; I was aware of that. I didn't believe that justified
a heavy sentence for something that probably would have brought a
much lighter sentence against someone else.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Did you play any part in the solicitation of signa-
tures to that petition ?
Mr. Furry. Well
Mr. Tavenner. Or that protest ?
76 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]Mr. Furry. If any p^i't, it must have been yn-etty minor. I may
liave secured a few signatures. It's possible I secured a few amonjr my
colleagues. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Furry, according to a photostatic copy of a pro-
gram, the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee sponsored a national
reception for ]Mme. Irene Joliot-Curie and you are listed as a mem-
ber of the reception committee. How was it that your services were
procured by the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee on that
project?
Mr. FuRRT, Could you tell me the date of that, sir? I am just
curious.
]Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Furry. Will you let me see it ?
Mr. Tavenner. March the 31st, 1948, is the notation that is made on
tlie photostatic copy of the document.
Mr. Furry. Well, sir, I'm very sorry that I am not able to remember
all tliese details that
Mr. Tavenner. Well, does the document
Mr. Furry. You asked me about.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Refresh your recollection.
]Mr. Furry. It certainlj^ doesn't refresh my recollection as to how I
may have or to whom I may have given this. It may have been over
the telephone. I may have been personally approached. I simply
don't remember.
However, Madame Curie's re])utation and that of the other people
who were sponsoring her in this country, some of whose names ap-
pear at the head of this thing, was so high — I had known, of course,
of her reputation for 15 years or more; I regarded this as a chance
to sponsor the appearance in America of a very distinguished scien-
tist, the winner of tlie Xobel prize.
Mr. Tavennek. Yes, but you knew what the Joint Anti-Fascist
Refugee Committee was, didn't you?
Mr. Furry. I certainly did. It was trying to take care of people
who had fought for Republican Spain and I was for it.
Mr. Tavenner. And you know now it was cited as a Communist-
front organization by the Attorney General, do yon not?
Mr. Furry. I am aware of that, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How was your sponsorship of that enterprise
obtained?
Mr. Furry. Sir, I've told you tliat I do not remember. It is
altogether likely tliat one of the other sponsors at Harvard — there
are several on this list — asked me wliether I would also sponsor.
On the other hand, it's quite possible that some young woman asked
me, or something like that. It may have been over the telephone. I
simply do not remember.
Ml'. Tavenner. For your information, Doctor, the Joint Anti-
Fascist Refugee Committee was cited as subversive and Communist
by Attorney General Tom Clark as early as December 4, 1947, and
youi- action came in March 1948.
Mr. FuiiRY. Sir, I have never recognized the right of the Attorney
(leneral to dictate to me in any such matter.
The only things I have seen from this committee have been appeals
to give money, to help people who were suffering, wlio had lought
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 77
for Loyalist Spain, and I was for Loyalist Spain and I don't caro
who knows it •
Mr. TAVENNf:H. And you
Mr. Furry. And an organization wliose only visible activity was
to help these survivors who fought for Loyalist Spain and helping
their families is all right to me, as far as I know.
Mr. Tavenner. And it makes no difference to you that the organiza-
tion was a Communist-front organization, an organization formed
for the purposes of the Comnnmist Party?
Mr. Furry. Sir, I will say that I don't know about that. All I
know is that it's the putting of things like this on this list that
makes me dubious about the list.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, actually the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee
Committee was not helping Loyalist Spain in 1048, was it?
Mr. Furry. Beg pardon.
Mr. Tavenner. I said— as late as March 1948, the Joint Anti-
Fascist Refugee Committee was not assisting Loyalist Spain, was it ?
Mr. Furry. Well, sir, I haven't been to France to see these people.
I haven't been in France since 1938, but it's my impression that a
good many survivors of the Spanish Republican Army who fled into
France are still there and need relief. This has been the basis for any
contribution from me.
I might also mention my attorney has pointed out to me that the
Supreme Court reversed or somehow revoked that listing as subversive
of this committee.
Mr. Walter. Doctor, I would like to know why you were so deeply
interested in trying to do something about the sentence imposed on
Earl Browder. He was no intellectual, professor, or the kind of man
you would ordinarily associate with. What was your great interest
in him?
Mr. Furry. Well, I received appeals and statements and so on,
and I paid some attention to them.
Mr. Walter. Appeals from whom ?
Mr. Furry. From committees who were organized to try to do
something about this heavy sentence.
Mr. Walter. Wh}- would you be willing to do something for Earl
Browder ?
Mr. Furry. Well, this was in 1941 or '42, sir.
Mr. Walter. That doesn't make any difference when it was. There
are hundreds of people being deported right along. Have you ever
busied yourself in behalf of any of these people sentenced for perjury
in connection with the applications for passports?
jSlr. Furry. Well, it was certainly my impression that the — from
the information that was sent to me on the case that he had received
an exceptionally heavy sentence.
Mr. Walter. Well, assuming that he did, what business was it of
yours or why were you interested in that particular individual ?
Mr. Furry. Well, somebody took the trouble to interest me, you see.
I mean, I was sent these things.
Mr. Walter. Is the fact you were interested in him because he
was the leading Connnimist in the United States? Wasn't that your
real interest?
30172—53—6
78 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Furry. Sir, my real interest is that I thought he was being pun-
ished for his political views with this heavy sentence.
Mr. Kearney. The committee will recess until 2 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 11 : 50 a. m. the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 2 p. m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(At the hour of 2 : 05 p. m. of the same day, the proceedings were
resumed, liepresentatives Bernard W. (Pat) Kearney (presiding),
Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Wal-
ter, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier being present.)
Mr. Kearney. Let the record show that the following members of
the committee are present : Kearney, Jackson, Clardy, Scherer, Wal-
ter, Doyle, and Frazier.
The committee will be in order. Proceed, Mr, Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF WENDELL HINKLE FURRY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Furry, you stated in your testimony this morn-
ing that you were called upon by the Guggenheim Foundation to make
suggestions as to persons who would be proper persons to receive the
award of the type that you received.
How many such recommendations did you make ?
Mr. Furry, i^ctually I haven't been able to think of any yet. Some
of the other people at Harvard are also called on and they usually
do a pretty good job of covering the ground, I assume. I didn't hap-
pen to know of anybody to recommend. I have not recommended
anybody.
Mr. Tavenner. You have not recommended anyone? The Daily
Worker of November 22, 1948, contains the names of 20 of the New
England educators and leaders in other professions who protested
the indictment of the 12 Communist leaders and demanded the aban-
donment of their prosecution. Will you examine the photostatic
copies of the list now and state whether or not you see listed there
the name of Prof. Wendell H. Furry of Harvard?
Mr. Furry. Yes. I see it here.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign the petition?
Mr. Furry. I must have. I don't believe they would use my name
falsely.
Mr. Walter. Did you ? Not that you must have ; did you ?
Mr. Furry. I have no memory of doing it, but I assume I did.
Mr. Walter. Are you the Wendell Furry that participated in that
move to try to prevent the prosecution of these 12 Communist leaders?
Mr. Furry. I presume that I signed this appeal against it. My
name is here. I don't remember any precise circumstances, but
Mr. Kearney. That was your same answer. Professor, as to the
other exhibits that were shown you this morning, that you don't
remember?
Mr. Furry. That's right. I mean, I signed a number' of these things
which you are seeing, and sometimes I have been asked to by a col-
league or an acquaintance. Sometimes someone has called me over
the phone and said that this would be a good idea and perhaps naming
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 79
some prominent person who has already signed, and I have given my
consent.
Mr. Walter. Do you have any idea why on so many occasions you
were asked to participate in matters of this sort ?
Mr. Furry. Probably because I did on some of the earlier occasions.
Mr. Clardy. Did you ever trouble to investigate any of them before
you signed?
Mr. Furry. Well, I have mentioned this case to the Civil Eights
Congress. That is not exactly a case of investigating before I signed,
but after I had agreed to be a sponsor of their first conference at
Boston I saw their literature that they got out for their conference
and I saw who the other sponsors were, and I attended part of the
meeting and decided I would have nothing further to do with it, and
I didn't.
Mr. Walter. Who are the other sponsors whose presence on the
committee made you feel you didn't want to participate ?
Mr. Furry. Well, a good many of them I didn't know, but they
were known leaders of the Communist Party, or a considerable
number.
Mr. Walter. That didn't deter you from acting on behalf of Earl
Browder, the head of the Communist Party, did it ?
Mr. Furry. It is quite a diiferent matter. If you feel a person is
being persecuted for his political views, or that his prosecution, I
should say, has been carried on more emphatically, and a larger sen-
tence has been secured than is usual in such cases for the offense in
question, because of his political views ; or if you feel people are being
prosecuted for their opinions and you happen to have a strong belief
that such prosecution for opinion is not right under our Govern-
ment
Mr. Walter. You knew that Earl Browder committed perjury,
didn't you ?
Mr. Furry. I knew he was accused of making a wrong answer on
a passport.
Mr. Walter. You knew he did make a wrong passport application ?
Mr. Furry. I knew he was supposed to answer with the word "none"
when he was supposed to answer about previous passports, and since
he had never had a ]:)revious passport issued under his own name
Mr. Walter. He had had many.
Mr. Furry. Not under his own name.
Mr. Walter. Of course not under his own name. That was the
perjury. So in effect he was not a person entitled to consideration.
He was a kind of defendant who repeats the same crime over and over
and over again. So why should he have gotten a lenient sentence or
received any leniency?
Mr. Furry. His other offenses were covered by the statute.
Mr. Kearney. Professor, do you still believe that Earl Browder
was prosecuted because of his political beliefs, or that he was prose-
cuted because he committed perjury ?
Mr. Furry. I lielieve he was prosecuted because there was a chance
to find grounds to prosecute him, and it was sought for carefully be-
cause of his political beliefs.
Mr. Kearney. I don't know whether that answers my question or
not. Do you believe lie was prosecuted because of his political beliefs
or because the (xovernment had a case of perjury against him?
80 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Furry. He was prosecuted because there was a case and the
prosecution was carried forward vigorously, and a specially heavy^
sentence was secured, in my opinion, bec<ause of his political beliefs.
Now I was starting to answer the gentleman that in these cases,
protesting these prosecutions, or asking for clemency, is quite a differ-
ent matter from wanting to be associated with these same people in
a public committee as in the case of tliis one we were mentioning.
Mr. Clardy. Is that the only one from which you withdrew?
Mr. Furry. That is the only one that I can remember that I dropped
out of under those circumstances. However, right after that one I
sort of said to myself that I had better be careful about those phone
calls, and so on.
Mr. Kearney. But, Professor, I understand also that you protested
against the conviction and punishment of the 11 Communists who
were on trial in New York.
Mr. Furry. I can't remember making any protest after the convic-
tion. I believe this protest was when they were first brought to trial
in what seemed to me to be a trial of their opinions. I protested
against that.
Mr. Kearney. Do you think they received too heavy a sentence at
the hands of the courts?
Mr. Furry. No ; I don't believe that sentence was too heavy if they
were guilty of the actual type of offense that was charged. However,
I am in grave disquiet about whether such a conviction was actually
justified on the sort of basis that so far as I read in the papers was
available.
Mr. Kearney. Do you have any knowledge of that case outside of
what you read in the newspapers?
Mr. Furry. No, sir. I haven't. Of course, I received newspaper
clippings or reprints, and so on, from a committee interested in de-
fending them. That is obvious.
Mr. Kearney. Assuming your opinion is based solely on what you
read in the newspa]:)ers, can you arrive at any other conclusion than
that they were justifiably convicted?
Mr. Furry. Well, the judge ruled on points of law and instructed
the jury. I am not a lawyer, and I have no basis for criticizing his
legal procedure. I simply feel myself tliat it was too much a question
of opinion; that if the law does permit conviction when it is that
nnich of a question of opinion, then I would be in favor of changing
the law.
Mr. Walter. And you don't think a man ought to be convicted of
any offense if he participates in a conspiracy to overthrow the Govern-
ment of the United States by force or violence ?
Mr. Furry. I certainly do think he should be convicted of an offense.
T was not convinced from what I read of the case — in my mind, and of
course I was not on the jury and didn't hear everything — in my mind
from what I saw of it I was not con^nnced that it got that far.
Mr. Walter. How many defendants do you know ?
Mr. FiTRRY. I think I had better refuse to answer that question on
the grounds I have given before.
Mr. Walter. You don't have to. You can refuse.
Mr. Furry. I do refuse to answer it on that basis.
]\Ir. Jackson. Professor Furry, your intercession on behalf of Mr.
Ik-owder and the likely intercession on behalf of the 12 Communists
COALMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 81
sprang- from your feeling, as I understand it, that this was political
persecution ?
Mr. Ftjrrt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jackson. Infringement of their freedom of speech and their
freedom of thought ?
Mr. Furry. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Did you at any time intercede on behalf of, let us say,
Pelley,^ who was head of the Silver Shirts ?
Mr. Jackson. Did you ever hear of Fritz Kuhn, who was head of the
German-American Bund in this country?
Mr. Furry. Yes. I heard of him. Nobody ever asked me to do
anything for him.
Mr. Jackson. Would you have so interceded had you been asked?
Mr. Furry. I doubt it.'
Mr. Jackson. Would vou have interceded on behalf of one Gerald
L. K. Smith ?
Mr. Furry. I don't think I would have.
Mr. Jackson. Is the matter of freedom of speech academically as
much concerned in these instances as in the Browder case?
Mr. Furry. Sir, we were at war with Germany during a good deal
of this period. I am not aware of the exact dates. I am certainly
never going to intervene or intercede on behalf of anyone who, with
any color of justification, is being accused of being on the side of the
enemy when my country is at war.
Mr. Jackson. Were vou ever a member of the German- American
Bund?
Mr. Furry. Xo, sir.
Mr. Jackson. Were you a member of the Silver Shirts ?
Mr. Furry. Xo, sir.
Mr. Jackson. Were you a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I have stated
before.
Mr. Clardy. Have you gone to bat for the Rosenbergs?
Mr. Furry. Xo, sir. I have not.
iVIr, Kearney. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Furry, have you on any other occasion joined
in a protest against the indictment of individuals in the Federal
court ?
Mr. Furry. Well, sir, possibly there may be cases, but I can't think
of any at this time. You have in fact reminded me of more cases than
I had realized existed, so maybe you can remind me of more. I can't
tliink of any myself.
Mr. Tavenner. If you cannot think of any other case except this
one, why is it you can't remember the circumstances surrounding this
one? Certainly in one instance where that was done it should stand
out as a milestone in your memory.
Mr. Furry. But there are two cases you have mentioned here.
Mr. Tavenner. Xo. I have only mentioned 1 case in which you
entered into a protest against the indictment of 12 Communist leaders.
Mr. Furry. Well, this sort of case, Mr. Tavenner, has not seemed
to me, so far as the circumstances of my agreeing to give my name,
to be outstandingly different from a number of the other things you
2 William Dudley Pelley.
82 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
mentioned this morning in which my name was used, and there have
been quite a few of them.
Mr, Tavenner. That is not an answer to my question.
Mr. Furry. That is all I can say. It does not stand out as different
from those cases which may have distinguishing features.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you about another situation. I find
in looking at the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for
the Second Circuit in the case of Eugene Dennis and others, that is,
the case of the United States against Eugene Dennis and others,
which is the case in which the 12 Communists were involved, that it
is stated in the course of the opinion that the defendants challenged
the array; and the trial of that issue extended from January 20
to Marcli 1, 1949. In other words, the defendants in that case chal-
lenged the jurors and the method of selection of the jurors to try that
case. That issue was being tried between the 20th day of January
and the 1st day of March 1949.
Now, when we look at the Daily Worker of February 17, 1949, there
seems to be an article which was timed j^erfectly for the influence
that it might have upon that decision, or the decision that was to be
reached in that issue, in which you are listed as one of 47 notables in
the Bay State to hit jury rigging.
I ask you if you signed that protest, and I hand you, to refresh your
recollection, a photostatic copy of the Daily Worker of February 17,
1949, and ask you to examine it.
Mr. Furry. I suppose I must have signed it. My name is here.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your purpose in joining in a protest of
that kind while the issue was being tried by the Federal court?
Wasn't it your desire to influence the court in behalf of the Commu-
nists who werQ then on trial ?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Walter. Mr. Tavenner, you are not seriously intimating that
anyone is ever influenced by what is written in the Daily Worker, are
you?
Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to show that there is a serious effort
made to influence people, though not with success, in doing it.
Mr. Furry. Well, I am not an expert on the jury system in New
York, Mr. Tavenner, but I judge that this was brought up to my
attention as a case in which the blue ribbon jury system, that is,
selecting the jury from among only certain groups of the population,
was being used; or was proposed to be used. Now, I have seen that
referred to in a number of different connections in cases at one time
or another, and I must say that I don't particularly approve of it
and never have.
I don't remember how I was asked to join this protest, and I
certainly don't want to interfere with the independence of the judi-
ciary. It is my impression this was addressed to a judge that is
not the judge of the trial. That is what I gather from looking at
this article, and was asking him to make some investigation or
some inquiry into the suitability of this procedure in this case.
Mr. Tavenner. AVho solicited your assistance in that?
Mr. Furry. Probably — it must have been the same way as my
assistance was solicited in other cases. Quite possibly a telephone
call naming 2 or 3, and possibly more, other signers, picking promi-
COIMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 83
nent ones and picking people I would probably know, or know of,
and asking me if I would go along.
Mr. Kearney. A telephone call from whom?
Mr. Furry. Probably an unidentified person saying, "I am calling
for so-and-so," and giving one of the names.
Mr. Kearxey. And you would respond to the call of an uniden-
tified person ?
Mr. Furry. I have decreased the frequency with which I do that,
Mr. Kearney, and I think essentially eliminated it during the last
2 or 3 years.
Mr. Kearney. I think after the exhibits that have been shown here
that you should.
Mr. J'uRRY. Your point is perhaps well taken.
Mr. Kearney. Were any of these calls from officials of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. I'^urry. Not to my knowledge.
ISIr. IvEARNEY. You said they were from unidentified persons.
]Mr. Tavenner. You previously stated you withdrew from the
Civil Rights Congress, as I understood you ?
Mr. Furry. I didn't say withdraw. What happened was simply
that I didn't accept when I was asked to do something more. And
so my name didn't appear any further and I believe I was only
asked once more to do anything. When I didn't do it, that was that.
Mr. Tavenner. It appears you did something more, according to
this article, because it says that this announcement was made by the
Civil Rights Congress on the filing of this protest.
Mr. Furry. Yes. I believe I noted that in that, but that is no
guaranty whatever that the Civil Rights Congress was named when
I was asked about it. It is very likely, in my opinion, that only
someone or other of the prominent individuals named there was
named.
Mr. Ta^tenner. You remember sufficiently in detail to recall it was
not the Civil Rights Congress, but you are unable to recall any other
details about the transaction ?
Mr. Furry. That is simply because actually, although I can't guar-
antee that the Civil Rights Congress wasn't mentioned, I think it
was very unlikely that it was, because as a matter of fact I was a bit
on my guard, t think I would not have been likely to do it if the
Civil Rights Congress had been mentioned to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of
Emanuel Blum — B-l-u-m ?
Mr. Furry. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Kearney. Counsel, I would like for a second to refer back to
the trial of the Communists in the city of New York.
There was some answer made by the witness as to his declination
to answer knowing any of these defendants. Was I correct in that
assumption ?
Mr. Furry. Kjiowing any of them personally. I refuse to answer
that question.
Mr. Kearney. I am going to ask you then, do you know an indi-
vidual by the name of Eugene Dennis ?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question.
84 COAUVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual by the name of John B.
Williamson ^
Mr. FuHRY. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual by the name of Jacob
Stachel ?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
]\Ir. Kearney. If there are any of these you don't know I suggest
you so answer. "Wliat is your answer to that ?
]\rr. Furry. My answer is no, I don't know.
Mr. Kearney. You don't know him? .
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Kobert G.
Thompson ?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Benjamin J.
Davis, Jr.?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Harry Winston?
Mr. Furry-. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named John Gates?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you Icnow an individual named Irving Potash?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Gilbert Green?
Mr. Furry. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Carl Winter ?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know an individual named Gus Hall?
Mr. Furry. No.
Mr. Kearney. So that that committee can safely understand from
your answers that there are eight, as I remember, of those names that
I mentioned, that you do not know, and on the others you decline to
answer on the grounds that it might incriminate you?
Mr. Furry. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Tlie Daily Worker of Tuesday, June 7, 1949, con-
tains an article datelined Boston, to the effect that many Massachusetts
leaders called upon Judge Medina to release Communists Gates, Win-
ston, and Hall from prison, and to drop the contempt citation against
Gates. Among the signers is the name of Prof. Wendell H. Furry of
Harvard.
Did you sign this protest ?
Mr. Furry. Do you wish to show me that ?
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of the issue of the
Daily Worker of June 7, 19-19, which you may examine to refresh your
recollection.
Mr. Furry. Well, it seems, sir, that in some respects you know
more about me than I know about myself.
Mr. Walter. We know more about you than you think we do.
Mr. Clardy. Or are willing to admit.
Mr. Furry. Or that I can remember, sir. I wouldn't want to assert
the gentleman named here as the initiator of this petition would have
used my name without my authorization, so I think it is fair to assmne
that I authorized it.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 85
Mr. Clardy. Were you in sympathy with the objectives stated?
In other words, is that the reason why you conchide that you prob-
ably did sign it ?
]Mr. Furry. This is a matter of releasing from a sort of subsidiary
punishment, as I understand it, incurred in connection with the way
they pressed their cases to trial. Is that right?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Furry. Why, yes, sir. As I remember it, you were asking me
whether I must have felt some sentiment favorable to this petition
asking that these people be released and the contempt charges dropped.
I think that is a fair statement. That is, these people were on
trial under criminal charges and they were going to be imprisoned
if they were found guilty.
I probably did favor dropping this subsidiary imprisonment.
As to the way in which I came to sign this, it is quite possible that
the Reverend Mr. Lathrop, or Mr. Lothrop, as I believe his name was,
called me himself, or somebody called and said they were calling for
him from the community church, and I may have
Mr. Kearney. What is the reverend's first name ?
Mr. Furry, Rev. Donald G. Lothrop.
Mr. Tavenner. Spell the last name, please.
Mr. Furry. It is spelled L-a-t-h-r-o-p here, but I would think it is
spelled L-o-t-h-r-o-p.
Mr. TxVVENXER. According to the Daily Worker of July 25, 1950,
you were represented as a signer of a statement sponsored by the
American Committee for the Protection of Foreign-Born in opposi-
tion to the Hobbs bill. I ask you whether or not you signed such pro-
test and, if so, how your signature was obtained ?
Mr. Furry. This Hobbs bill — how is it described there?
Mr. TA^^NNER. I will hand you a photostatic copy of the issue of
the Daily Worker of July 25, 1950, so that you may refresh your
recollection.
Mr. Walter. I could probably refresh your recollection because
I wrote the repoil.
Mr. Furry. This bill evidently was represented to me and material
sent to me from this organization, as being a bill to provide for in-
definite imprisonment w^ithout trial of certain persons, and for the
denial of bail to certain persons.
Mr. Walter. You have an entirely wrong conception about what
that law does. It makes it a crime for an alien not to leave the United
States after he has been ordered deported. That is the offense. That
is to be proved. You have to prove affirmatively that he made no
attempt to leave the United States.
The reason for it was there were 3,000 aliens at least at the time
of this report who were under orders for deportation for every crime
from murder on down to simple buglary, who just refused to leave.
And after all, you do believe that our sovereignty must be protected
don't you ?
Mr. Furry. Yes, sir. I was under the impression that people could
be forcibly deported.
Mr. Walter. But of course a very simple device has been resorted
to, particularly by people who do not want to go behind the Iron Cur-
tain. They just don't get a visa, and there you are. And then this
organization that you belong to — the American Committee for the
86 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Protection of Foreign-Born — provides Communist counsel usually.
They go into court in New York and get a writ of liabeas corpus and
represent to the court their inability to furnish bail. The judge re-
leases Jheni on their own recognizance and they go out and commit
another crime.
Now it certainly seems to me that you as an intelligent and educated
man ought not to be willing to permit the sovereignty of this great
Republic to be so seriously attacked as it was under the conditions
that existed before that law, but you were so opposed to it.
Mr. Jackson. What is the date of this issue?
Mr. Tavenner. July 25, 1950.
Mr. Jackson. What is the date of the citation of the American
Committee for the Protection of Foreign-Born?
Mr. Furry. I don't like this, gentlemen. If you will excuse me.
If this date is July 25, 1950, I don't know how my name could have
gotten on here. I was outside of the country at that time. I was in
Denmark. I was engaged in making my plans to take a ship on July
28, 1950, to come home, and I do not believe that I signed this.
Mr. Kearney. Had you ever seen a copy of that issue prior to your
appearance on the witness stand?
Mr. Furry, Of this issue of the paper? No, sir. Not to my knowl-
edge, certainly.
Mr. Kearney, Have you ever seen any copies of previous issues?
Mr. Furry. I can't remember seeing these particular ones. I
haven't seen the Daily Worker much throughout most of this period.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question: Professor, in view of this
•discovery by you, that you just testified that you were not in this
country and, therefore, couldn't have given consent, do you want to let
your testimony still stand on these other papers?
Mr, FuERY, That I must have ?
Mr, Doyle That you must have. That you assume. Or, is it pos-
sible
Mr. Furry. Well, I assumed that honestly, sir, that I must have,
since I was tliere ; but I really think I can't have in this case if this
time is correct.
Are you sure this time is correct, Mr. Tavenner, or is this perhaps a
jear out?
Mr. Tavenner. The issue of the paper appears at the top.
Mr. FoRER. It does not say what the date of the letter is.
Mr, Tavenner, What time did you leave for Europe in 1950?
Mr, Furry. In the beginning of February. If I ever gave con-
sent to this, they must have stored it for nearly 6 months before
they used it.
Mr. Doyle, Mr. Chairman, I didn't have the benefit of being here
this morning, Professor. I was in attendance at another committee
of which I am a member. But in view of that testimony by you that
you couldn't have given consent to this unless they got it 6 months
in advance and kept it in storage
Mr. Furry. I could have, of course.
Mr, Doyle, I am really asking you sincerely, sir, whether or not you
still want the record to stand that because of your connections, or
your habits, or whatever it was, you are just willing to assume that
these same people always got your permission before, if they didn't
in this case ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 87
Mr. FuBKY. Well, there is this bare possibility, but I think it es-
sentially incredible ; and that is that the thing was sent across the ocean
to me and I sent it back, because I was attending only to the most
official mail for the university and only urgent personal mail, and I
do not believe it could have happened.
Mr. Kearney. It could have been that you also could have signed
this petition some weeks before going overseas and it could have been
published at a later date ?
Mr. FuERY. That could have conceivably happened.
Mr. Clardy. There is no date on the paper itself, is there ?
Mr. Furry. No, sir. It could have happened, but I would doubt it.
I would doubt it very much. I was extremely busy, and also because
of my previous experience of the feeling I had to go into something I
didn't want to on the Civil Rights Congress, on that conference, I
think it can be essentially discounted completely that I gave my con-
sent to this thing at this time.
Mr. Jackson. Did you at any time perform any acts for or on behalf
of the American Committen for Protection of Foreign-Born previous
to this ?
Mr. Furry. I let them use my name as a sponsor of their organiza-
tion, I am not sure in which years — 2 or 3 years, the last one being 1949.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel, what was the date of the citation by the
Attorney General and by this committee?
Mr. Tavenner. The date of the citation by the Attorney General
Tom Clark was June 1, 1948, and by this committee March 29, 1944.
Mr. Jackson. Did you know at the time that you lent the use of your
name to the organization that it had been so proscribed by the Attorney
General ?
Mr. Furry. I probably lent my name originally before it had been,
and I probably consented to its continuance in 1949, after it had been.
I do not believe I knew of it at the time.
Mr. Kearney. Proceed, please.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Furry, have you had any connection directly or
indirectly with the United States Naval Research Bureau or its
employees ?
Mr. Furry. You mean the Naval Research Laboratories, or
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I assume that the Naval Research Laboratories
would be a branch or a part of the United States Naval Research
Bureau. Is that correct?
Mr. Furry. I don't know the setup. The onlv possible connection
is that during the war there were some people in Washington interested
in the same problems about radio-wave propagation that I was working
•on at MIT, and on 1 or 2 occasions I made trips to Washington to take
part in conferences and discussions.
The only occasion I can remember on which I visited a naval estab-
lishment is I went to consult with Prof. Donald Miscell of the univer-
sity, who was at that time a lieutenant commander in the Navy and was
interested in these problems.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other connection which you have
not described with the Laboratory or the Bureau ?
Mr. Furry. They may have written me something for information
about some former student of mine they were intending to employ.
That may have happened. Something like that. I can't think of
any other connection.
88 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Walter. Did 3^011 recommend any men to the Navy Department ?
Mr. Furry. Well, I get these requests for recommendations for
emjDloyment for all sorts of employment. A certain fraction of the
people who go through Harvard ask me to do it for them.
Mr. Tavenner. There has been described to the committee the
existence of a Communist Party unit or cell within the teaching pro-
fession of Harvard. Were you at any time a member of it ?
Mr. Furry. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds
that I stated this morning.
Mr. Kearney. Are you now a member of any Communist cell at
the University of Harvard or anywhere else?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I
stated this morning.
Mr. Taat=;nner. Did you attend in 1044 a labor-press conference?
Mr. Furry. It seems very unlikely to me, sir. I was very busily
engaged at that time. I was working at MIT. I don't think I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate to such a conference from the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Furry. I was doing nothing in connection with the Teachers'
Union during those years I worked at MIT, which included 1944, I
believe.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of tlie Communist
Party at any time?
Mr. Furry. I must refuse, as I have before, to answer that ques-
tion, on the grounds that I stated this morning.
Mr. Walter. You don't have to refuse. You say, "I must refuse."
Do you refuse ?
Mr. Furry. All right. I do refuse.
Mr. Tavenner. I liave no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Professor, why have you refused to answer the ques-
tion as to whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party ?
Do you consider that a violation of your personal rights, aside from
the matter of possible self-incrimination (
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
iVIr. Furry. I believe my full statement that I made this morning,
and which the chairman found a little long, applies to this question.
Mr. Jackson. I am sorry. I nuist apologize for not being able
to be here this morning.
The reason I asked the question is because you were very blunt
and very emphatic in denying auy association with the German-
American Bund or with the Silver Shirts. It seems a little incon-
sistent, if there is any matter of conscience involved here that one
can on the one hand be emphatic and blunt in denying associations
or without going into the question of conscience or anything else, and
on the other point — the subject under investigation here — can be very
reluctant and can take the constitutional privilege.
Have you traveled abroad since 1050;'
Mr. Furry. Only to Canada.
Mr. Jackson. I have no furtlier questions.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, do you conceive a straightforward answer
that you are not a member of the Connnunist Party could in any
way incriminate you ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 89
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously given.
Mr. Clardy. Would you state your reasons for advancing that
claim ?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Furry. It appears to me, Mr. Clardy, this is simply an attempt
to get behind my answer to cross-examine me on my refusal to
answer.
Mr. Clardy. That is the best answer you can think of with the
help of counsel at the moment ?
Mr. Furry. I think that is the correct answer.
Mr. Clardy. Now is it your apprehension, sir, that if you ad-
mitted you were a member of the Connnunist Party, that that would
in some way incriminate you and endanger your freedom or your
liberty ?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer this question on the same grounds
as before and with the same reason I just explained, that it is an
attempt to cross-examine me on my refusal.
Mr, Clardy. Have you ever engaged in any activity in any way
contrary to the best interests of the United States of America?
Mr. Furry. Not in my opinion, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Would you describe what you mean by "not in your
opinion" ?
Mr. Furry. Simply that. That in my opinion I have never acted
in a way calculated by me, or in my best judgment, to injure the
United States.
Mr. Clardy. Would membership in the Communist Party fit with-
in your definition, sir?
Mr. Furry. I am not an expei't on the history of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Clardy. You know nothing about it whatever?
Mr. Furry. I don't say that I know nothing about it whatever.
I say I don't know everything about it. There may be times, or
there may have been times at which it would or would not have been
within that statement.
Mr. Clardy. When are the times that it would not have been? Are
there such ?
Mr. Furry. There may be. I said I am not an expert and I be-
lieve this is a leather moot point in the courts of the United States
right at the moment.
Mr. Clardy. You approve of the present attitude of the Govern-
ment of Russia on the question of anti-Semitism, or Semitism ?
Mr. Furry. I am not really aware, sir, that the Government of
Russia has such an attitude.
Mr. Clardv. You are still of the opinion you indicated earlier this
morning that you didn't know that they were anti-Semitic. Is that
what you are meaning to say ?
Mr. Furry. I know there is a great deal of talk in the press. I
have seen talk in the press in past years — nearly 30 of them now —
some of which I happened to be able to verify from my own ex-
perience, or laiowledge of languages, or in other ways, was utterly
falsified, condemning Russia.
90 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
I know also that some of the condemnation may be true, and I
am not in a position to judge. I certainly have no clirect way of
knowing about this particular question.
Mr. Clardy. Then you do not wish at the moment to condemn the
moves of the Russian leaders toward the Jewish race?
Mr. Furry. If they are making moves toward the Jewish race, try-
ing to i^ersecute the Jewish race, I will condemn them. What I have
seen so far in the press has not convinced me that they are.
Mr. Clardy. That is all I have.
Mr. ScHERER. Professor, this morning you told us of your trips
abroad. Did 1 understand you to say that at one time you did visit
Russia ?
Mr. Furry. That's right.
Mr. SciiERER. When was that?
Mr. Furry. Roughly the month of July 1938.
Mr. Scherer. Would you mind telling us what the occasion of that
visit was?
Mr. Furry. As a tourist.
Mr. Sciierer. Where in Russia did you go?
Mr. Furry. Too far, resulting in my wife's illness, for which I had
to take her to Stockholm to get her cured. We went to Leningrad,.
Moscow, Kharkov, Rostov-on-Don, Sanshi, Yalta, Sevastopol, Shep-
etovka, Kiev, and then back to Leningrad and Moscow and Leningrad,
and out into the Scandinavian countries.
This was too long an itinerary for our strength, and particularly
for my wife's.
Mr. ScHEREK. Have you kept up any correspondence with any as-
sociations that you formed during that trip abroad ?
Mr. Furry. No, sir.
Mr. Scherer. That is all.
Mr. Kearney. Are you finished?
Mr. Scherer. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Professor, as I stated before, I didn't have the benefit
of hearing your testimony this morning because I was in attendance
at another committee meeting. I am not going to assume that you
know or are familiar with the statutes under which this committee
operates, or are familiar with the text of our assignment as Members
of Congress.
Mr. Furry. No, sir. I am not.
Ml'. Doyle. You never read it ?
Mr. Furry. No, sir.
Mr. Doyee. Well, in a general way I presume you know, though,
but I do want to read just one sentence in the paragraph and ask your
cooperation, if you will give it and feel you are in a position to give
it in answering questions. It is this :
The Coniniittee on Un-American Aotivities as a whole and by subcommittee
is authorized to malve from time to time investif:;ations of the extent, character,
and objects of un-American propaganda in the United States.
Then I skip down to,
* * * diffusing within tlie United States subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated in foreign countries of domestic origin and attaclvs
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 91
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed l»y our Constitution, and
all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces-
sary and remedial legislation.
Have you any suggestion to this committee as to any way in which
our present statutory law relating to the Communist Party in our
country, or subversive people or programs, should be amended or
changed ?
Mr. Fi'RRY. I am not very familiar with the statutory law on that,
Mr. Moulder, and I am not a lawyer.
Mr. FoRER. It is Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Furry. Is it Mr. Doyle? Excuse me. Mr. Moulder's sign is
right in line.
Mr. Doyle. I am seated in Mr. Moulder's seat.
Mr. Flurry. I am not familiar with that Mr. Doyle. I have na
suggestions.
• Mr. Doyle. I did notice, however, and I think you volunteered a
minute ago some considerable information about the court processes
and the jury cases and our Federal courts with reference to penalties
and fines, and the cases involving defendants in our courts at least
charged with programs to forcibly overthrow our Government. I
therefore assumed that maybe you were in possession of some
suggestions.
Mr. Furry. AVell, Mr. Doyle, I am an assiduous reader of non-
fiction books and I have come across this blue-ribbon jury referred
to now and then in various sorts of cases, and I saw it referred to in
the Xew Yorker just recently in connection with a case that was being
described in their Annals of Crime business. And by and large the
impression that I have of the blue-ribbon jury system is not a good
one, and this came up in connection with one of those places.
i\lr. Doyle. Another question : Have you read any of the findings
or magazine articles about the findings of the Subversive [Activities]
Control Board in the last year in which the Communist Party was the
respondent or defendant, and in which the Subversive [Activities]
Control Board has just found that the Communist Party — or I think
it did — at least it is my best information it did — found the Communist
Party a party which should be required to register members that are
in this country .
Have you read any of their findings or reports at all?
Mr. Furry. Only as they appeared as a news story in the press.
Certainly very little about it.
I notice my attorney is shaking his head at this.
Mr. Doyle. I noticed that too, of course. I couldn't tell whether
he is shaking it at me or at you.
Mr. FoRER. I was sliaking it at you. It was a panel that recom-
mended the decision. The Board hasn't acted.
Mr. Walter. The Board never acted.
Mr. FoRER. The Board hasn't acted yet.
Mr. Doyle. But I think the Board would only constitute the four
members and this panel, therefore, is a majority.
Mr. FoRER. There is no question of what the Board will do.
Mr. Doyle. jMay I ask you this, Professor? I noticed you made
the observation that newspaper clippings or magazine clippings had
been mailed you treating with these different cases.
Mr. FtT^RY. That's right.
92 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Ml'. Doyle. Didn't I hear you say that ?
Mr. Furry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Mailed you from where ?
Mr. Furry. Well, there is. some office in New York that sends these
out,
Mr. Doyle. What organization mailed you these ?
Mr. Furry. Some defense committee.
Mr. Doyle. What defense committee?
Mr. Furry. Oh, the Committee to Defend the Eleven Defendants,
or somethino; like that.
Mr. Doyle. How about the Communist Party headquarters in New
York? Did you get some from them ?
Mr. Furry. I can't remember any time within recent years getting
a tiling from them.
Mr. Doyle. How far back can you remember having received from
the Communist Party of New York newspaper clippings or clippings
from their headquarters ?
Mr. Furry. I would say with some assurance that I haven't received
any in the last 2 or 3 years, and I supect it goes back further than
that. However, I believe they are operating still feeling they are
free to send out as they please, and if they want to send me some I
suppose they will.
Mr. Doyle. I notice you said you are a very great reader of maga-
zines and nonfiction articles. Therefore I am interested — you being
one of our foremost educators, and your particular chair — in .what
articles you read- It might help us to understand your answei^s
before this committee.
Having read to you the section of the statute under which this com-
mittee operates, which challenges us with the duty of investigating
subversive activities in this country — that being the statute, do you
have any objection, theoretical or practical, to this committee fulfilling
its duty to the American people as assigned by Congress and trying to
ferret out people and programs who ai-e subversive and who advocate
the use of violence and force ?
Mr. Furry. I certainly have no objection to the authorities in this
country trying to find people who are concerned with overthrowing
this Government. I happen to believe that this sort of proceeding
is not the way it ought to be done. I think it should be done by
regular law enforcement agencies,
Mr. Kearney. That is your opinion.
Mr. Furry. Yes, sir. That is my opinion.
Mr. Clardy. You know if a law-enforcement agency had you in
court you do not have the privilege of having an attorney telling you
how to answer questions, do you not?
]\Ir. Kearney. The gentleman from California, Mr. Doyle, has the
floor.
Mr. Clardy. I beg your [)ardon.
Mr. Doyle. Then, Professor, while a minute ago you said you had
no suggestions in answer to my question, are you not now making a
definite statement of opinion as to how this committee should or
should not function? Aren't you .saying that this committee should
not function and that all such matters should be turned over to legal
procedures in our duly constituted courts?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 93
Mr. I^ARNEY. The Chair will make an observation here : The wit-
ness is not on trial. I would suggest that we pursue a different course
of questioning.
Mr. Doyle. I am certainly not trying to put him on trial, but I am
trying from his brilliant educational record to find out if he has a
, suggestion with reference to the function of this committee, and
certainly by definite statutory direction we are directed to undertake
to find in our hearings if there is any suggestion that could come from
any witness as to any necessary remedial legislation.
Mr. Walter. If you want an expert opinion on physics you will
probably get it here.
Mr. Furry. That's right. My educational qualifications are defi-
nitely not of a legal sort, sir.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, Mr. Witness, you feel that the Mem-
bers of Congress of the United States should write their own legis-
lation ?
Mr. Furry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. That is what we are here for.
Mr. Doyle. I wouldn't challenge your conclusion at all, but I do
feel in an appeal to the witness like this, if he has a suggestion to us,
as an American citizen, of any remedies that should be applied to our
]:)rocesses, we ought to try to get them from him.
Mr. Walter. What do we care what he thinks about it?
JNIi'. Furry. I have made suggestions to the various authorities of
the Government at various times in the past.
Mr. Kearney. It seems to me we are wasting a lot of time here.
Mr. Furry. Right.
Mr. Kearney. And I suggest that we proceed along the usual line
of questioning.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I have no further questions.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
Mr. Kearney. One question. Professor. Do you believe that mem-
bership in the Communist Party today is inimical to the interests of
the United States?
Mr. Furry. Sir, that is a matter about which I am perhaps not
certain.
Mr. Kearney. Can you give me an answer "Yes" or "No"?
Mr. Furry. Doesn't a citizen have a right to be uncertain about a
matter of public interest ?
Mr. Kearney. I will say that the witness has been uncertain in much
of his testimony here today. If that is the way the witness wants to
leave it, that is all right with the Chair.
Mr. Walter. How could you l)e uncertain after Korea?
Mr. Furry. I don't think the Communist Party of the United States
started that Korean business.
Mr. Jackson. The Communist Party of the United States has done
everything it could to be sure that we would fail in our goals. Does
the professor recognize any valid distinction as between a Communist
in the United States today and a Communist soldier in the lines in
North Korea ?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
30172—53 7
94 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kkarnp^y. Surely that is a question on which the witness does
not have to consult counsel.
Mr. FoRER. That's right.
IVlx. Jackson. I am quite willing to have the witness consult with
counsel on it.
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Jackson. Is there any valid distinction? Do you make a
distinction in your mind as between one who seeks the overthrow of the
Government of the United States by force and violence in this counti'y,
and one in the lines of North Korea who seeks the overthrow of the
United States of America by force and violence in Korea ?
Mr. Furry. Well, of course, I am not sure that either one is seeking
the overthrow of the United States Government by force and violence.
The man in Korea is seeking control over some Korean territory.
Mr. Jackson. The Communist in Korea is seeking world domination
by the Soviet Union to the same extent and in the same degi-ee that a
iledicated Communist in this country seeks the same goal.
I am disappointed, frankly, that there are American citizens today
who distinguish as between shades of conununism, knowing that the
Communist in Korea and the Communist in this country follow the
same directives, read the same textbooks, and are dedicated to the
same ends.
I have no further questions.
Mr. Kearney. Counsel, do you have a question?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to ask one additional ques-
tion.
Doctor, you have indicated in your answers to some questions pro-
])ounded by committee members that you had some knowledge of the
Communist Party and what it stands for. I want to ask you whether
or not the existence of Communist Party membership on the part of
professors in a college or university is a thing that should be looked
upon lightly, or whether it is a matter that should be the subject of
grave concern with reference to the influence that the Communist
Party might wield upon members of the institution, both of the facul-
ty and students, when these professional members are^ under the di-
rectives of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Furry. The existence of any large or organized group in a
particular institution, I think, could be a source of grave concern.
The existence of isolated individuals, as long as they are not teaching
and not using their positions to teach any doctrines of this sort, I
think is of no particular concern.
Mr. Tavenner. It is just a question of degree, in your opinion? If
there is a large number it is dangerous, and if they are few it is of
no concern?
Mr. Furry. I said if they were isolated individuals.
Mr. Tavenner. Can a member of the Communist Party wdio is sub-
ject to its directives be isolated?
Mr. Furry. Well, I don't know \diether I know enough about the
workings of all this thing to answer that, sir. By the word "isolated"
I meant a single person in institutions.
Mr. Ta\t5nner. We have heard testimony here regarding the exist-
ence of an organized group or cell of the Communist Party at Har-
vard? Nothing has been said about an isolated member.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 95
Mr. Furry. You liave lieard that suggestion about a period from
18 to 15 years ago, I believe, or 14 to 16.
Mr. Tavexneh. Well, I am asking you as to 13 or 14 years ago.
What do you say about it?
(The witness consults with his attorney.)
Mr. Furry. I don't believe at that time it was of any danger.
Mr. Tavenner. Would it be now ?
Mr. Furry. I think it probably would be.
Mr. Walter. Was there one 10 years ago ?
Mr. Furry. I believe the comniittee has already heard evidence on
that.
Mr. Walter. I am asking you whether or not there was one.
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question myself.
Mr. Walter. Is there one now ?
Mr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question for myself on the
grounds I liave already stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Kearney. The witness is excused.
The next witness, ]Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Granville Hicks.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Hicks, do you swear that the testimony you will
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Hicks. I do.
Mr. Kearney. You will be seated, please.
TESTIMONY OF GKANVILLE HICKS
Mr. Ta\t:nner. You are Mr. Granville Hicks?
Mr. HiCKS. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented or accompanied by counsel?
Mr. Hicks. No.
Mr. Tamcnner. Do you desire counsel?
Mr. Hicks. No.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Hicks?
]Mr. Hicks. I was born in Exeter, N. H., on the 9th of September,
1901.
]\Ir. Tavenner. AVhat is j'our present occupation ?
Mr. Hicks. I am a free-lance writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, please, what
your foi-mal educational training has been?
Mr. Hicks. I was educated in the public schools of New Hamp-
shire and Massachusetts. I did luidergraduate work at Harvard
and was graduated in 1928 with my A. B. degree. From 1928 to
1925 I was at Harvard Theological School.
You want only education now ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Hicks. In 1928-29 I was back at Harvard and took my mas-
ter's degree in English.
Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. What was the date when you ob-
tained your degree at Harvard ?
Mr. Hicks. 1929. My A. B. degree in 1928: my master's deii"ree in
1929.
96 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
work record or employment record has been since the completion of
jour formal education ^
Mr. Hicks., Well, from 1925 to 1928 I was an instructor at Smith
'College. Then I went back to Harvard in 1928-29, as I have already
:said; and from 1929 to 19;55 I was assistant professor of English at
Eensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy. Since then I have had —
110, I am sorry
Mr. Tavenxer. Will you spell the name of that school, please?
Mr. Hicks. R-e-n-s-s-e-1-a-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. Rensselaer?
Mr. Hicks. Rensselaer.
Mr, Tavenner. xVnd try to elevate your voice a little, if you please?
Now you were at Rensselaer College to 1935 ?
Mr. Hicks. 1935. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And from 1935 on how were you employed?
Mr. Hicks. Well, except for 1 year in that period I have been a
free-lance writer. In the year 1938-39 I was a counselor in American
civilization at Harvard College.
Mr. Tavenner. Mv. Hicks, you have appeared at a prior time be-
fore a subcommittee of this committee in executive session, have you
not?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You have advised the committee of most of the
facts, I suppose, that you have within your recollection.
Mr. Hicks. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Regarding your experience while a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Hicks. In the winter of 1934-35.
Mr. Ta\T3Nner. And hoAv long did you remain a member ?
Mr. Hicks. Until September 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Since September 1939 have you been affiliated with
any activities of the Communist Party, to your knowledge?
Mr. Hicks. Not if I knew it.
Mr, Tavenner. What has been your attitude and your record since
1939 with reference to the Communist Party ?
Mr. PIiCKS. I have been, I think, consistently anti-Communist,
Mr, Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you first became a member of the party ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I had been a rather close fellow traveler for a
period of 3 or 4 years; so close that I was actually an editor of the
New Masses, which was, of course, a Communist magazine. I was an
editor at a time when I was not a member of the party. It was very
natural that I should be at some point or other recruited into the party.
And when I was asked, in the winter of 1934-35 — and it may have been
December 1934, or January or February 1935, 1 don't remember — but
when I was asked, I immediately agreed to join the party, and I did so.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that in the city of New York ?
Mr. Hicks. That was in the city of New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you then employed as an editor of New
Masses ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INTILTRATION (EDUCATION) 97
Mr. Hicks. Well, employed is not the right word, since the New
Masses never paid anything. I was an editor of the New Masses.
I was employed at that time at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.
]Mr. Tavexner. How long had you been on the editorial staff of the
New Masses before you were invited into the party ?
Mr. Hicks. Approximately a year. I became the literary editor
of the New Masses when it was made a weekly in January 1934.
]\Ir. Tavexner. Who asked you to become a member of the party?
Mr. Hicks. Bernhard Stern.
Mr. Tavenner. Bernhard Stern. How was he employed ?
Mr. Hicks. He was employed in some capacity at Columbia Uni-
versity. I don't know what his rank was.
jMr. Tavenxer. Was he a teacher ?
]Mr. Hicks. Yes. I think so.
Mr. Tav-exxer. Tell the committee the circumstances under which
he asked you to become a party member.
Mr. Hicks. I was living — I was not living in New York at that time.
T was living in Troy. As I remember, he wrote and asked me if I
would have a meal with him the next time I came to the city. I did
so. We had dinner together and he simply asked me if I didn't feel
1 was now ready to join the party; and after we discussed it a little
Avhile I said that I did feel so.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you then assigned to a special group or any
particular group of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, he took me to the group to which he belonged.
Mr. Tavexx'er, Then you became a member of the same group or
unit of which he was a member ?
Mr. Hicks. That is true ; which was a group of professional people,
writers mostly, in New York City.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were there any other members of the teaching pro-
fession, members of that group, other than Prof. Bernhard Stern?
Mr. Hicks. Not to the best of my recollection, I think there were
not any other teachers,
Mr. Ta"\^x^ner. What was the activity in which that group engaged ?
Mr. Hicks. My impression is I only attended one or two meetings
because of not living in the city and not having to be there, and not
happening to be there at the time when the group was meeting, I
remember that at one meeting I attended there was a good deal of talk
about preparations for the first Congress of American Writers. That
is the only specific subject I can remember our discussing.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did you become a member of the first Congress of
American Writers?
Mr. Hicks. Yes. I presided, I think, at the opening meeting of that
congress.
• Mr. Ta^^exxer. Was that an open meeting^open to the public
generally ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavexxer. It was a matter that was public knowledge in the
city of New York and "carried in the newspapers ?
Mr. Hicks. Oh, very, very much so.
Mr. Ta^^xxer. Were the other members of that Communist Party
group to which you were assigned also members of that writers
conference ?
98 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Hicks. I think so. The first Congress of American Writers
led, as I recall it, to the formation of the League of American Writers,
an organization that went on for a number of years. My guess would
be that all of the members of the group I belonged to were also mem-
bers of the League of American Writers. I know that some of them
were.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date of the first Con-
gress of American Writers over which you presided ?
Mr. Hicks. April or May 1935.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you continue active in that organi-
zation ?
Mr. Hicks. Only until the following summer. You mean now the
party group I belonged to ?
Mr. Tavenner. I was referring at the moment to the work of the
first congress.
Mr. HiCKS. To the League of American Writers ?
Mr. Tavenner. And to the League of American Writers.
Mr. HiCKS. I belonged to that until the winter of 1939-40, when I
became convinced that the Communist domination was hopeless, and
I got out. I might say parenthetically that there were a good many
of us who had hoped, having broken w4th the party, or never having
belonged to it
^fe^
Mr. Tavenner. Would you raise your voice?
Mr. Hicks. Yes. There were a good many of us who hoped during
the fall and winter of 1939-40 that the league could be taken away
from the Communists, but it proved to be impossible, and so most of
us simply quit.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you of the opinion that it was under the con-
trol and domination of the Communist Party from its inception?
Mr. Hicks. Very much so. That does not mean, of course, that all
of the members of the league were Communists. Far from it.
Mr. Tavenner. Certainly.
Mr. HiCKS. But the Communists were controlling it from the very
beginning.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of this first
gi'oup in the city of New York, that is, the group of the Communist
Party to which you were assigned ?
Mr. Hicks. Only until the following suimner — the* summer of
1935 — when I asked to be transferred to the Street branch in Troy,
where I was then living. This was partly because I thought it was
foolish to belong to a branch in whose activities I could not really
take any effective part. It was also because having been fired from
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute I felt I could afford to be a public
and open member of the Communist Party, and I very much pre-
ferred to be in the open. So that I was transferred to the Troy branch.,
and from that time on went under my own name in the party and made
no effort whatever to conceal my affiliation with the party, and spoke
many times under direct party auspices.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you first became a member in the city of New
York in the group to which you were introduced by Professor Stern,
your membership was kept secret?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you use your own name?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 99
Mr. Hicks. No, I certainly had a party name. I had no idea what
it was, but I was given a party name, I am sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenxeb. What were the dues?
Mr. Hicks. I don't know. The dues system changed several times
during the period that I was in the party, and sometimes it was on
a sliding-scale basis, and sometimes it was on a direct percentage basis.
I think that the dues ran somewhere around 5 percent and up. Per-
haps higher than 5 percent of one's income.
Mr. Tavenxer. Five percent of your income?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now you stated that you were teaching at Rensse-
laer College at the time you were editor of the New Masses. How
long were you or did you occupy that dual relationship ?
Mr. Hicks. A year and a half.
Mr. Ta\'enner. How long was it after you became a member of
the Communist Party that your services were dispensed with at Rens-
selaer College?
Mr. Hicks. Five or six months.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you become openly known as a member of the
Communist Party at that time ?
Mr. Hicks. No, I had not. I was certainly known as a very close
sympathizer, as my being on the New Masses and presiding on the
[American] Writers Congress, and so on, would indicate ; but 1 con-
cealed the fact that I was actually a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any connection between your release as
a teacher at Rensselaer College and your Communist Party affilia-
tions ?
Mr. Hicks. The administration refused to give that as the reason
for dismissing me. Presumably I was officially dismissed for reasons
of economy. However, in his commencement address the acting presi-
dent said that he did not fire me because I was a Communist, but if he
had fired me because I was a Communist it would have been all right.
You may draw whatever inference from that you wish.
Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. Did you at the time make any claim or assertion as
to the cause of your release in a public way ?
Mr. Hicks. Oh, I said as loudly as I could that I was being fired
because I was a Communist sympathizer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at that time admit publicly that you were
actually a member of the party ?
Mr. Hicks. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it immediately after your release from Rens-
selaer College that you asked to be transferred to Troy ?
Mr. Hicks. It was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean in being transferred to Troy, being
transferred to a Communist Party unit in Troy ?
Mr. Hicks. Tliat is what I mean. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that suggestion made to you by Communist
sources, or was it a matter of your own decision ?
Mr. Hicks. It was a matter of my own decision, which was to some
extent resisted by the Communists in New York, but at the end they
«gi'eed, and that was what happened.
100 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. At the time your connections were severed from
Rensselaer College, did the Communists of your group take any posi-
tion with regard to your making it known publicly that you were a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr, Hicks. Bernhard Stern suggested that he thought it was very
unwise. I remember that. Whether any of the others made similar
suggestions I don't know, but in any case, whatever was said, I did
what I wanted to do and became a puljlic member.
Mr. Tavenner. But you did not become a public member until you
had left the group in New York ?
Mi\ Hicks. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Why was it you did not announce publicly that you
were a member of the Communist Party while still a member of the
group in New York, instead of waiting until you got to Troy and until
you were assigned to the Troy group ?
Mr. Hicks. Because that would have been — there would have been
a danger then of exposing members of the unit in New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Wouldn't there have been an equivalent danger of
exposing people in Troy ?
Mr. HiCKS. Not really an equivalent danger. And actually it
wouldn't have been so serious if they had been exposed.
Mr. Tavenner. Why is that?
Mr. Hicks. Well, the Troy branch — it was known a Troy branch did
exist. It carried on various regulations, political and public activi-
ties. It was taken for granted that it was there ; that a public spokes-
man should appear for it really didn't change the actual situation at
all. The group in New York, on the other hand, was a highly secret
group, and nobody was supposed to know it. Nobody outside the
party was supposed to know that there was even such a group in exist-
ence. Therefore, to have called attention to it might have been to
point the finger at the particular individuals who made it up.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this group in New York a group of persons in
sensitive positions in their particular fields?
Mr. Hicks. Not particularly.
Mr. Tavenner. Or prominent positions ?
Mr. Hicks. Fairly prominent in some instances.
Mr. Tavenner. AVas John Howard Lawson a member of that
group ?
Mr. Hicks. That question I could only answer in terms of hearsay.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know ?
Mr. Hicks. I do not ever remember seeing him at a meeting of
that group.
Mr. Tavenner. Were any other members of the staff of New Masses
members of that group ?
Mr. Hicks. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the name at this time of any other
persons who were members of that particular group?
Mr. Hicks. I can. Do you think it is relevant to the interests of
the committee at the present time ?
Mr. Tavenner. It isn't relevant to the issue we are immediately
concerned with.
Mr. Hicks. I have already given those names in private hearing
and I would be glad to let that matter rest there for the time being.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, in the fight of the fact it is not a
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 101
matter concerned with our present hearing I am not disposed to press
the answer.
Mr. IvEARNET. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. When you were assigned to the unit in Troy did
you immediately make known publicly your membership in the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Hicks. Xot at any rate in the sense of sending a statement to
the local papers saying I have joined the Communist Party, but
almost immediately I began speaking at open party meetings and
broadcasting for the party on the radio.
JNIr. Tavenner. How long did you continue as an open party
member ?
Mr. Hicks. I was an open party member as long as I was in the
party.
Mr. TA\T:]srNER. Can you give us the approximate date of your
transfer to the Communist Party at Troy ?
Mr. Hicks. Only that it was sometime in the summer of 1935.
Mr. Tavenner. Your next employment, I believe, was at Harvard
University ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the position to which you were elected,
or which you were given in Harvard ?
Mr. Hicks. I think the title was counselor in American civilization.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that a new system or plan of study which
had been inaugurated that year?
Mr. Hicks. It was a new plan. As I recall, someone had given
Harvard a sum of money to undertake an experiment of this kind
for a period — a limited period of years — to see if it would be success-
ful for, say, 3 or 4 years. The plan was that a man should be ap-
pointed to each of the houses at Harvard, that is, these groups which
had living quarters and eating places, and also integrated in the
study program. A man should be assigned to each of these houses
whose job it would be to try to interest the students in that particular
house in studying xA,merican culture outside of actual classroom work.
Mr. Tavenner. What phase of American culture was it contem-
plated they should be taught ?
Mr. HicKs. Well, most of the people who were appointed were
either in American literature, or American histoiy , or both. So that
I take it the emphasis fell on American history and literature.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliich was j'our field ?
Mr. Hicks. American literature.
Mr. Tavenner. How many counselors were appointed?
Mr. Hicks. Seven or eight, I think.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed by the faculty or by some other
group or organization of the university?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I suppose I was employed by the corporation
which is the governing body of Harvard University.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Will you tell the committee the circumstances un-
der which you were employed? Who initiated the movement or the
suggestion of your employment?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I was — as I recall it, the first suggestion came
from a friend of mine at Harvard — F. O. Matthiessen, the literary
critic, who wrote to ask whether I would be interested in such an ap-
pointment if it were offered me. He had reason to ask that since it
102 COAIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
was only a part-time job with part-time pay, and I would in any case
have to go on with free-lance writing, and so on, in order to support
my family.
He therefore approached the subject rather tentatively, telling what
the plan involved and asking me if I would be interested, and saying,
of course, that he could promise nothing; this was simply a tentative
inquiry.
After thinking it over I wrote back that I thought I would be very
much interested, and in due season received an official appointment —
from whom I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any records showing how the official
appointment was made?
Mr. Hicks. I may have. I usuallj^ keep such things. But I think
it would have come in the fonn of an impersonal letter from whatever
official of the university handled that kind of thing.
(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not your activity in the
Communist Party, or even the fact of the Communist Party member-
ship at that time, was known to the appointive powers at Harvard?
Mr. Hicks. It seems as if it must have been, but I don't know ab-
solutely that it was.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first enter the school for the per-
formance of your duties ?
Mr. Hicks. In September 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your appointment?
Mr. Hicks. The preceding April or May.
Mr. Tavenner. I have seen an article in the New York Times date-
lined April 12 stating that you were appointed that day and there
was a considerable question raised at that time, was there not, about
the appointment by Harvard of a person in your capacity who was
a known member of the Communist Party, was there not?
Mr. Hicks. Particularly in the Boston newspapers.
Mr. Clardy. In the what?
Mr. Hicks. In the Boston newspapers.
Mr Tavenner. Did your Communist Party membership have any-
thing to do with your not being retained for an additional year,
to your knowledge?
Mr. Hicks. That is a matter that was very much under dispute.
I maintained at the time that it did." The administration said that
it never intended to appoint couselors for more than a year at a time.
"WHiether what they said was true, none of the counselors had been
aware of it. We thought there was a possibility of renewal, but I am
not questioning what they said at that time at this time. At the time
I thought that it was because of the embarrassment that had been
caused them that they let me go.
Mr. Walter. Wlio passed on the question? The president of the
university ?
Mr. Hicks. I beg your pardon, sir?
Mr. Walter. Who passed on that question ? The president of the
university ?
Mr. Hicks. On the question of appointing me in the first place,
or letting me go ? I suppose that I could have been appointed without
COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 103
the president's having any immediate knowledge of it. That is,
this was a very nnimportant position and it is the kind of thing that
could quite conceivably have slipped by without his investigating the
subject very carefully. I have never known whether that was true
or not. I think he was very well aware of what went on when I left.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the period of your work at Harvard
for the year that you were there, did you continue in your Communist
Party associations ?
Mr. Hicks. Oh, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And membership?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, indeed.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you very serious at that time about the sub-
ject of communism?
Mr. Hicks. I should say so, yes, very serious, indeed.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have your membership transferred from
Troy to Harvard University?
Mr. Hicks. I suppose I must have. I don't remember the cir-
cumstances, but I — I Avas associated with the Harvard branch as soon
as I got there.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you find that branch in existence when you
came ?
Mr. Hicks. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it there when you left?
Mr. Hicks. It was.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that known as the Harvard branch ? ^
Mr. Hicks. I don't know w^hether it was. I don't suppose it could
have been. Ever — we always spoke of it as such, but I imagine that
officially it had some other name.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware that the existence of a cell of the
Comnnmist Party at Harvard among the professors was known
generally in the community?
Mr. Hicks. I think it was known generally, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the membership of the group known ?
Mr. Hicks. Not known certainly, no.
In some cases I think there were strong suspicions ; in othei-s prob-
ably not.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your own position in the membership of the
Communist Party known to the students generally ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, indeed.
Mr. Tavenner. You had not endeavored to conceal your Com-
munist Party membership after having once become an open member?
Mr. Hicks. No.
Mr. Tavenner. While a member of the Troy branch of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Hicks. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. We just had on the witness stand a professor from
Harvard University, Dr. Wendell Furry. Did you become acquainted
with him while at JHarvard ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, I did.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Was he a member of the Communist Party cell
or group of which you were a member ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, he was.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member when you came there?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
104 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member when you left?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything about his continued member-
ship in the Communist Party after you left?
Mr, Hicks. No, I have no knowledge of that kind.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you any knowledge of the continuance of that
Communist Party cell in later years ?
Mr. HiCKS. No, I have not.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had any occasion to know one way or an-
other about its existence or nonexistence ?
Mr. HicKs. No, the only person who was in any position to tell me
about that was Robert Davis, who testified yesterday.
After he, too, had left the party, I had no contact with it whatever.
Mr. Ta\t3nner. Did you become acquainted with a person by the
name of Israel Halperin ?
Mr. HicKs. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of, that cell of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Hicks. He was.
Mr. Tavenner. At Harvard. Do you recall what his connection
with the institution was?
Mr. Hicks. No, I don't. I think he was probably a part-time
teacher and part-time graduate student, but I'm not sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall Dr. Daniel J. Boorstin ?
Mr. HicKs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the group or cell of the party
of whicli you were a member ?
Mr. HicKS. He was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a person by the name of Richard
Schlatter— S-c-h-1-a-t-t-e-r ?
Mr. HiCKS. Yes, I do.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of your group ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner, Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Hicks. He was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have knowledge of his withdrawal from
the Communist Party at a later date; that is, of your own personal
knowledge ?
Mr. Hicks. No, not of my own personal knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is the same person mentioned
previously as having withdrawn from the Communist Party in about
1939.
Mr. Walter. As I understand it, since that time, Doctor, you have
been engaged quite actively in anti-Communist work, including the
v,'riting of anti -Communist books.
Mr. Hicks. Yes ; yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
Jack Rackliffe— R-a-c-k-1-i-f-f-e ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
. Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was his connection with Harvard University ?
Mr. Hicks. I don't really know.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the teaching staff?
Mr. Hicks. I don't know. He — most of these people were very low
in the academic ladder, and many of them were doing graduate work
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 105
at the same time they were teaching, and looking back now these 14
years, I just don't recall the details in most of the instances.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the party ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party with you ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, he was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall George Mayberry ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party with
you?
Mr. Hicks. Yes, he was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall at this time any special activity of
Dr. Wendell Furry in that Communist Party group while you were
there ?
Mr. Hicks. No, no; I just remember him as one of the members
doing what other people were doing.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the chief concern and activity of that
group of the Communist Party during the year you were there?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I think Mr. Davis stated it very well yesterday.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, rather than to repeat matters that he testified
to in particular, do you have any facts to add in addition to what he
said?
Mr. Hicks. No, I think not. I think his account was adequate
and accurate.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there anything that he said about the activity
of the Communist Party with which you disagreed?
Mr. Hicks. Not that I can recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you personally take part in caucuses of the
Teachers' Union ?
Mr. Hicks. In the sense that almost every meeting of the party
unit was a caucus, as I think has already been pointed out. That is,
we did not hold separate caucuses because there was no need of it;
we discussed Teachers' Union affairs at meeting of the party branch.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall an individual by name of Louis
Harap — H-a-r-a-p ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What connection, if any, did he have with this
Communist Party group ?
Mr. Hicks. He was a member of the group.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell how the directives or instructions
from the Communist Party were transmitted to your group?
Mr. Hicks. My recollection is that they came in various ways.
As a matter fact, I have often carried them myself, since I had — I
was carrying on a rather wide range of Communist propaganda activi-
ties, and therefore, was likely to go into Phil Frankfeld's office, and
he would tell me things he wished our group would discuss or would
do.
I think Harap also acted as a kind of go-between, and there may
have been others. It was pretty informal in that particular year.
Mr. Tavenner. Were all the members of this group fairly active
in the work of the party ?
Mr. Hicks. I would say there was a good deal of variation. Some
were much more active than others.
106 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mv. Tavenxer. You referred to the wide range of Communist
Party activities that you were engaged in at that time. Will you
explain that, please ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, most of it was simply speaking at various meet-
ings of many kinds. The fact that so much publicity had been given
my appointment at Harvard led to many invitations from highly
respectable organizations as well as party organizations, and during
that entire year I think I spoke on an average of 2 or 3 times a week,
Mr. Tavenner. Were those speeches made with the purpose of ad-
vancing the cause of communism generally ?
Mr. Hicks. Generally, yes.
These speeches, or especially those that were given to our laro-e
non-Communist groups, were devoted chiefly to expounding the
anti-Fascist position which was at the time the official position of the
party and was very much my own position.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion in carrying out that func-
tion to speak before groups of students of the college ?
Mr. Hicks. Yes. at Harvard and other colleges as well.
Mr. Ta\^nner. What type of groups did you speak before at Har^'-
ard— or let me change the question : Was there a Young Communist
League organization at Harvard at that time?
Mr. Hicks. I believe there was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you appear as a speaker before it ?
Mr. Hicks. Not that'l can recall.
Mr. Tavenner, Did you attend one of their meetings at any time?
Mr. Hicks. Not that I can recall.
Mr. TA^^5NNER, Do you know to what extent higher functionaries
of the party visited that Young Communist League organization
among the students at Harvard?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I have no idea.
]Mr. Ta^tenner. Did you discuss that with Phil Frankfeld on any
occasion ?
Mr. Hicks. Not that I can recall. I think the feeling was, my being
an open Communist, I had better not have nuich to do with the YCL,
at least that's the way I can recall now. Certainly I didn't have much
to do with it.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the general purpose of the Com-
munist Party in endeavoring to organize a cell or unit among the
teaching profession at Harvard, or at any other university, as far as
that is concerned ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I think that's a question that has to be answered
on two levels, really : First, what I thought then, and second, what I
think now.
May I answer it that way ?
Mr, Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hicks. Wliat I thought then was that the Communist Party,
having had a genuine change of heart in 1934 and 1935, when the new
line was adopted, was interested in carrying on the fight against fas-
cism and in protecting democracy against fascism and had ])ostponed
into some rather indefinite future the whole idea of world revolution.
I believed that in the light of that the Communist Party was inter-
ested in reaching all people who can mold public opinion, and among
these, of course, would be the teachers.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 107
Mr. TA^^NNER. And, incidentally, at that point, wouldn't the teach-
ers be in a better position to mold public opinion among people gen-
erally both within and without the schools than almost any other
class of people ?
Mr. Hicks. They certainly were a very influential group, and the
party was well aware of that.
Mr. Tavenner. Pardon my interruption.
Mr. Htcks. Yes, certainly. Of course, I feel now that the party
was — well, it is very obvious to me that the popular front was simply a
dodge that happened in those particular years to serve the foreign
policy of the Soviet Union : so it seems to me that the party, in organiz-
ing branches in the colleges, had two purposes. One was to carry out
the existing line which they wanted to make a show of advancing, and
then, of course, the other was to try to have a corps of disciplined revo-
lutionaries whom they could use for other purposes when the time
came.
Mr. Walter. Did you ever come in contact with the corps of trained
revolutionaries?
Mr. Hicks, In the sense that the party organizers, like Phil Frank-
feld, for example, are.
Mr. Walter. I think he would faint if anybody showed him a gun,
and I am sure that is true of a great many of the revolutionaries that
testified before this committee. I am just wondering, in view of these
rather jacketed, hard-boiled revolutionaries, who they were.
Mr. Hicks. They were the party functionaries as a rule, the pro-
fessional party members, the members who give the whole of their lives
to it.
Mr. Ke.\rnet. In that category would you designate the group of
Communists who were convicted in New York City ?
Mr. HiCKS. Certainly.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Now, will you elaborate further upon those two
methods or purposes, rather, of the Communist Party, as you under-
stand it now?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I think the only way I can elaborate is to say
that most, and perhaps all, of the men who belonged to the unit at
Harvard were people who felt as I did, who were thinking of party
activity in terms of the situation that then existed in the late thirties,
a situation in which, to many people in this country, the great enemy
was certainly Fascist Germany, and our potential ally was Soviet
Russia.
I think that these people, almost without exception, felt that.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, that was the situation as you have described
it prior to, I assume you mean, the pact between the Soviet Russia
and Germany, which was August 23, 1939.
Mr. Hicks. Exactly.
Mr. Tavenner. What -change occurred at that time ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, after a very brief period of confusion, the party,
of course, adopted its position. The fight against fascism was a sec-
ondary matter, a matter of taste, as Molotov said, and that the war
as now going on was an imperialist war and that the chief aim of all
Communists should be to prevent the United States from aiding Eng-
land and France in their fight against Nazi Germany.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any difficulty in accepting that sudden
change in Communist Party line?
108 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Hicks. I found it perfectly impossible to accept it and got out
of the party within a very short time after the pact was signed.
Mr. Tavenner. Were yon concerned about it to the extent that you
sought further information or advice from functionaries on a higher
level?
Mr. Hicks. Yes ; I went to New York, had a talk with Earl Brow-
der, to see if he had anything to say; I mean, I didn't want to break
with the party. I had given 4 years of my life to it. I didn't want
to break. It was a very hard step to take. I was convinced I had
to take it, but I went to talk with Browder and to see if he had any-
thing to say that I hadn't already read in the Daily Worker.
He simply paralleled the Daily Worker line, and I came home and
wrote a public letter of resignation.
Mr. Tavenner. What he had said confirmed your opinions and
judgment about the change in the party policy, in the party line?
Mr. Hicks. It made perfectly clear to me what should have been
clear to me earlier, and that is that the Communist Party in the United
States was wholly under the domination of the Soviet Union.
Mr. Doyle. What year was that ?
Mr. Hicks. That was September 1939, or August and September..
Mr. ScHERER. You believe that to be true today, too ?
Mr. Hicks. I do.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you know whether that's true or not today ?
Mr. Hicks. How do you know? I think the evidence is over-
whelming.
Mr. ScHERER. I just want that as a part of the record.
Mr. Kearney. May I suggest that the gentlemen of the conunittee
let counsel pursue the examination and then if the members have any
questions to ask, they can ask them at the end of counsel's interroga-
tion. It will expedite matters.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, at the time you left the party for the
reasons that you mentioned, there were others who had entered it with
the same beliefs you had, but continued to remain in the Communist
Party ; isn't that true ?
Mr. Hicks. I think that is true.
Mr. Tavenner. It took some courage and determination to break
bonds after once being entered into ; did it not ?
Mr. Hicks. I think so. It was a difficult thing to do, as I said
a moment ago. There were people who were in positions which per-
haps made it even more difficult ; that is, where the party itself might
be able to exert pressure.
In my own case it was very fortunate that I had been an open mem-
ber of the party, because I had to make my decision openly. I had
been saying all tihis about fascism being the real enemy, and now I
would have had to turn right around and say the exact opposite, and
of course I couldn't biing myself to do that, and there was nothing to
do but break with the party. If I had been a secret member, I could
have temporized for some months, worried and fretted, and then
eventually come around and reconciled myself to the new party line.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I would like for you to give the committee
the benefit of such opinion as you have, based upon your knowledge
of the Communist Party and its principles, and particularly its pur-
poses, as you have described them at this time.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 109
Mr. Hicks. Well, I feel, as I said a moment ago, that the evidence
is overwhelming; that the Communist Party in this country is and
always has been dominated by the Soviet Union. I think that every
member of the Communist Party is an actual or a potential agent
of the Soviet Union.
I would like to stress that word "potential."
Any given individual at any given moment may not be an agent,
even though he is a member of the Communist Party; that is, when
a test comes, that would make him an agent, in effect, of the Soviet
Union. He may break with the party, as I believe many people have
done. That happens not only in moments when the party line
changes. I think that has happened to individuals who were given
assignments that they suddenly saw were in effect treasonous, and they
would not carry such assignments out, and they quit then and there.
So, as I say, you cannot at any moment, at any given moment, say a
particular member of the Communist Party is an agent of the Soviet
Union, but I think you can say he is potentially an agent, and that that
is exactly how the Communist Party would like to use him if it could.
Mr. Tavenner. But do you not agree that these potential agents
have nevertheless a very important part to play in the development
of the whole Communist scheme of things in the promulgation of
the Communist Party line, among people generally, and the influenc-
ing of the public, and the public's views, upon contributions to Com-
munist-front organizations, in which the Communist Party is inter-
ested and is using?
Mr. Hicks. Oh, I do agree, that's absolutely true. I just did not
want my statement about a party member being a Soviet agent to stand
unqualified. That would be unfair.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I agree.
Mr. Hicks. To certain individuals.
Mr. Tavexner. Now, knowing students at college, as you are
bound to know them, and understanding the motives of the Com-
munist Party, what is your judgment about the advisability of main-
taining in a responsible position in a college a teacher who is under
the directives and under the discipline of the Communist Party as
you have described it?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I think there are — in most situations that is
probably a very undesirable thing. I taust say I would go along
with Senator Taft in feeling that I would not want to make an
absolute rule about that. I think there are situations in which it
would be better to let a Communist keep his job than to disrupt the
whole fabric of academic freedom ; that is, I w^on't make an absolute
statement to the effect that every Communist in an educational institu-
tion ought to be removed as quickly as possible.
I think each case ought to be looked into on its own merits, and
the question of the damage, the kind and amount of damage the par-
ticular individual is doing should be determined, and all that should
be taken into account.
Mr. Walter. Don't you distinguish unorthodox teachings from
teachings advocating the overthrow of the Government?
Mr. Hicks. Well, there is no— I'm assuming there is no evidence
that this particular hypothetical Communist has been teaching the
30172—53 8
110 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
overthrowing of the Government. If he has, then that's another
matter.
Mr. Kearney. Counsel, proceed, and I am going to ask the mem-
bers again to wait until he has finished, and then examine the witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you not agree that it is potentially dangerous
to permit a member of the Communist Party, who is subject to its
discipline to be in a situation in a college where both in matters
relating to the curriculum and his duties as a teacher and also his
extracurricular activities he is in a position to influence students or
other faculty members, for that matter, and likewise to become po-
tential agents of the Soviet Union by becoming Communist Party
members ''.
Mr. Hicks. I think it's a danger, but I'm not sure it's a very serioub
or grave danger.
After all, in the thirties, when the whole intellectual atmosphere was
favorable to communism, there were only perhaps 10 or 12 Communists
out of the faculty of hundreds at Harvard University, and these men
in almost every instance have the lowest academic rank.
Now, if that is the best that communism can do in our colleges,
perhaps we've been a little too worried about them. Perhaps it is not
quite so serious a thing as we have been supposing.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, can you state that it is not a serious thing if
even one student at college is induced to embark upon an enterprise
which may later, in later life, bring him into a situation comparable
to some of those who have been prosecuted for their Communist ac-
tivities ?
Mr. Hicks. Of course it's serious. I think it's terribly serious. The
only question is, what are you going to do to prevent it?
Now, you cannot protect all college students 100 percent. Some of
them take to drink, and some of them take to communism, and lots
of other things happen to them, and there's nothing that anybody
on (jod's earth can do that will look out for all college students. I
think you have to just say that is a risk you run.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you are considering it, on a very
small scale, as being a calculated risk ?
Mr. HiCKS. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. But would you say it should be put in a category
of a calculated risk where th6 Communist Party teacher is a member
of an organized group of the Communist Party and is functioning
with others as a group ?
Mr. Hicks. I think that — well, let me start over again. There
again it is certainly a danger, and if there is a functioning group, a
large functioning group, it can be a very serious danger against which
rather drastic action may have to be taken.
On the other hand, I think we should be rather careful not to exag-
gerate that danger, especially in a ]:)eriod such as this, when most
jpeople are overwhelmingly aware of the evils of communism.
In this situation, it seems to me, it would be very hard for the most
devoted Communist teacher to make very many converts.
Can I say one thing more about that? I think another thing
we tend to do in our discussion of this problem is to exaggerate the
persuasiveness of the Communist teacher, forgetting that for one
Communist on the faculty there are a hundred to a thousand otlier
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 111
teachers, who, if they are as dispersnasive as he is persuasive, certainly
ouofht to be, since they have so much better a case.
Mr. Tavenner. But it has been demonstrated time and time again
in evidence before this committee that just a small handful of Com-
nuniist Party infiltration cell got control of that entire group, and
Avould take multitudes to accomplish, and I have in mind particularly
the testimony of [Matt] Cvetic, when he related what hapened in a
labor union of 2,800 persons who were loyal Americans, and how this
Communist Party infiltration cell got control of tliat entire group, and
there were never more than 20 people in that group.
Mr. Hicks. Well, I have seen that sort of thing happen, and I don't
want to discount it. On the other hand, it is easier to take oyer a
trade union than it is to take over a university, a good deal easier.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there any efforts of reprisal made against
vou for breaking from the party ?
Mr. Hicks. Not that I know of, not that I was conscious of.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period of your membership were any
efforts made to direct you in the character of writing you performed,
that you did ?
Mr. Hicks. There were efforts made, but when I resisted them, I
had no trouble.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the effort that was made?
Mr. Hicks. To make them conform more closely to what was then
the party line. I mean, I was following the party line, you under-
stand, and I though I had as much right to my interpretation of
it as the other people did, and — but they, in a few instances, I can
recall, suggested that I should change this, or do that, but when I said
''No," that was the end of it. I was in a rather fortunate position.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us an illustration of instances, specific
instances, where an effort was made to direct your writing ?
Mr. Hicks. The one that comes to mind because I have often quoted
it as a joke came when I did a review of the Book of Selections on
Marxism for the Communist, the official theoretical magazine of the
party. In the course of the review I remarked on the fact that Marx
and Lenin were very vivid writers as well as being great theoreticians,
and so on.
I received a telegram from V. J. Jerome asking what about Uncle
Joe, meaning I had left out Stalin, and praise of Stalin was becom-
ing obligatory in the Communist, as well as the papers in Russia.
Since I happened to think one of the greatest — one of the real evils
that Stalin has brought is the corruption of the style of the Com-
munist word, I wrote back, wired back, "nothing doing," and the review
went as I had written it.
That is a very trivial incident.
Mr. TA^^lNNER. What has been the general nature of your opposi-
tion to the Communist Party since severing your connection with
it
Mr. Hicks. Well, I-
Mr. Tavenner. In 1939 ?
Mr. Hicks. I have written very extensively in magazines, from the
very beginning. I have written in the Nation, in the New Republic,
Harpers, Commentary, and Partisan Review. I am on the editorial
board of the New Leader, which is a leading anti-Communist paper.
I have also done a good deal of lecturing on the subject here and
112 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
there. I've introduced the theme of anticommimism in several of the
books I have written in this period. I've been active — not very active
because of my remoteness from New York, but I have taken part in
the work of the Americans for Democratic Action and the American
Committee for Intellectual Freedom.
I think that is a rough summary.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kearney. Any questions ?
Mr. Clardy. Just one : He mentioned the Americans for Democratic
Action, which arouses my interest.
Where did you slash that from the line of fronts ?
Mr. Hicks. Well, I think that is and always has been a leading
anti-Communist gi'oup of left, liberal intellectuals. _ It was formed,
after all, in the very beginning as an organization in which people
of liberal and progressive ideas — to which they could belong and
fight communism at the same time they were fighting for the par-
ticular causes that they had in mind. It was— it was very scrupulous
from the very beginning to keep all Communists out of it.
Mr. Clardy. But it followed a party line, almost identical in many
particulars with the Communist Party line, was it not?
Mr. Hicks. That I think is mistaken — I think you will find ADA
had disagreed with the Communist Party line again and again and
again.
Mr. Clardy. I would offer to show you my diagram.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. Well, as a matter of fact, the Communist is not eli-
gible for membership in the ADA ?
Mr. Hicks. Exactly.
Mr. Walter. Now, you said a moment ago we perhaps were too
worried about the menace — that is, the menace of communism — and
exaggerated the situation. If that is true, don't you feel that an at-
mosphere of fear is created throughout the United States which is not
healthy.
Mr. Hicks. I think that's absolutely true. The question is : How
was it created ?
Mr. Walter. How is it created ?
Mr. Hicks. How was it created ; yes.
Mr. Walter. Now, I don't think there is any question about how it
was created, but how can we make the American people understand
that the might and majesty of this great republic will not be abused
so that innocent, frustrated idealists, if you please, are not destroyed
at a time when congressional committees are conducting a legitimate
duty ?
Mr. Hicks. I'm afraid I don't understand where that question gets
to. I — I think the fear in this country is in part a very real and un-
derstandable fear of the Soviet Union and its agents. It is a fear that
we should all share. It is a perfectly real thing.
Over and above that, I think there is a mood of rather vague ap-
prehension that is not rational and that is dangerous, and I do feel
that that mood of irrational apprehension has been encouraged in part
by congressional — I will say legislative investigating committees.
Mr. Walter. Well, what can be done to make the people realize that
this committee, at least — I don't know about the others, but I assume
they have a similar desire — are in search of knowledge for perfectly
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 113
legitimate reasons. Now, I am inclined to agree with you that we are
exaggerating the situation now, particularly in the light of recent
events — Korea, and then the anti-Semitic movement, which is wide-
spread in Russia. I am sure that the Communist Party membership
has been reduced considerably — certainly the eggheads have all gotten
out of it — and I just can't imagine intellectuals believing that in the
Communist movement in the United States there is anything that
even resembles the solution for our economic problems. I think that's
true.
Mr. Hicks. Oh, I agree.
Mr. Walter. All right. Now, then, if that is the fact, what can
this committee do to make the American people believe, outside of the
mistakes that are made, understand, that we are not determined to
search into men's minds for ideas, but that we want to know what the
extent of this menace is ?
Now, you say it is exaggerated. You say we are too worried, and I
think it is our job to find out if that is the fact.
Mr. Hicks. Well, for some reason, the emphasis in all these in-
vestigating committees always falls on the fact of how much com-
munism there is and never on how little there is.
Mr. Walter. That's right.
Mr. Hicks. It seems to me I have been sitting around here for 2
days in which it has been demonstrated that there were 10 or 12 Com-
munists at Harvard 14 years ago and that perhaps there is one still
there.
Now, I would honestly think if you could just say to the public,
"Look, that's all," instead of saying, "Look how much that is; isn't
that terrible?" you might do a good deal to allay the fear that is
sweeping over this country.
Mr. Kearney. That statement I thoroughly agree with.
Mr. Clardy. Maybe we will on this before we get through. We
have only started.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. I made a note, as you testified, and you briefly said
this: That you had concluded that they have postponed their idea
of world revolution.
That is one point you made, and then another point: You said,
"I feel now that front was merely a dodge, but they had determined
to have a corps of trained revolutionaries."
Do you remember using substantially
Mr. Hicks. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Such language?
Mr. Hicks. Yes ; I do.
Mr. Doyle. When you say "revolutionaries" in that connection,
was it your experience, as an active member, public member, of the
Communist Party that the Communist Party in America was ad-
vocating then the use of force and violence, even indefinitely, some
time in the future, that that might be necessary?
Mr. Hicks. The Communist Party at that time certainly was not
advocating the use of force and violence. I think that always in
the background there was that possibility as part of the whole Marx-
ist concept. It was being soft-pedaled, however, in the period 1935
to 1939. It was, I think, never mentioned in the general — in gen-
eral publications of the Communist Party.
114 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
I would like to say one more thing about that : That even speak-
ing about trained revolutionaries does not go far enough today.
Wlien we speak of trained revolutionaries, we're thinking — at least
I'm thinking — of the sort of thing that Lenin recommended when
he was building up the Bolshevik Party in Russia. What we have
today, what the party is looking for today, it seems to me, is simply
not even trained revolutionaries, but dependable agents.
Mr. Clardy. The what ?
Mr. Hicks. Dependable agents — agents of the Soviet Union.
Mr, Clardy. Agents of what ?
Mr. Hicks. Agents. They are looking for dependable agents of
the Soviet Union.
Mr. Doyle. Well, may I state this to you briefly — the ground work
for my last question so you will understand the purport of the ques-
tion more clearly: I was in Japan and Korea, Kwangtung, For-
mosa, Okinawa, Hong Kong, a couple months ago for Congress and
while I was in Korea those few days, and in Japan, and elsewhere, I
asked our American Intelligence, also some other intelligence, whether
or not, in their judgment, the military aggression in Korea, in Indo-
china, Indonesia, was part or had any definite relationship to the
subversive Communist Party program in the United States of
America. And a hundred percent of those men all said, "Yes. It's
part and parcel of the same international conspiracy."
Now, having made that report to you, I want to ask you whether
or not you have any opinion, based upon your knowledge, whether
or not trying to get these Communists who, as you say, would be
Soviet agents rather than Soviet revolutionaries, whether or not in
your judgment the Communist Party program in the United States
of America today is the agent of Soviet Russia.
Mr. Hicks. I believe that it is, and there's no question in my mind
that it is to be combated. The only question is how do you combat
it most effectively and, in the course of doing so, do a minimum of
damage to our American institutions.
Mr. Doyle. Well, now, Mr. Chairman, may I ask this final question
then : Have you any suggestion or recommendation to make to this
committee on the question of legislation ?
Mr. Hicks. No; I have not on legislation. The only suggestion
I have to make is the one I already made.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Walter, I interrupted you on a question.
Mr. Walter. Well, I was just leading up to my last question.
At any rate, of those who now remain in the Communist Party, they
are, in fact, representatives of the Soviet and agents of the Soviet
with their allegiance there first?
Mr. Hicks. I made the distinction earlier
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Hicks. That they are either actual or potential agents. I think
that now, after all that has happened, the chances are that most of
them are actual, not potential, but I still think that you have to allow
that much margin of doubt.
Mr. W^ALTER. Well, then, can't this whole thing be dealt with ade-
quately by making it a crime to be a Communist Party member and
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 115
just arrest people, prosecute them for membership in the Communist
Party, instead of searching all over the lot?
Mr. Hicks. I have sometimes felt that that was certainly the answer
and would be much simpler. How much damage that would do, I
don't know. I mean, whether that would again give the impression
that this big country is too much worried over a little party — it would
be a simpler and, in many ways, I think, a more satisfactory way of
handling the problem than what we've had in the last 2 or 3 years.
Mr. Kearney. No matter which way it was done, somebody would
be bound to be hurt ?
Mr. Hicks. Somebody will be hurt. There's no getting around it.
I mean, innocent people will be hurt.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this: Do you say that you are suggesting
possibly outlawing the Communist Party ?
Mr. Hicks. I am saying I have had times when I felt that was the
only possible solution.
Mr. Kearney. That's all Doctor ; and, on behalf of the committee,
1 want to thank you for your contribution you have made here before
us today. If counsel has no further questions, you are excused.
Mr. Hicks. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kearney. The committee will take a recess until 10 o'clock
tomorrow morning.
The witnesses who have been subpenaed will report in room 226.
(Whereupon, at 4: 29 p. m. the hearing was recessed until 10 a. m.,
Friday, February 27, 1953.)
METHODS OF COMMUNIST INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Actr^ities,
Washington^ D. G.
executive session ^
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con-
tinued its hearing:, pursuant to recess, at 11 : 10 a. m., in room 226,
Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman) pre-
siding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman) , Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Francis E. Walter, Clyde
Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; and Donald
T. Appell, investigator.
Mr. Velde. Counsel, will you call the witness.
Will you stand and be sworn ? Raise your right hand. In the testi-
mony you are about to give before this committee do you solemnly
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God ?
Mr. Dunham. I do.
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point that present are Mr.
Jackson, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and the
Chairman.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. What is your name, please ?
TESTIMONY OF BARROWS DUNHAM, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, PHILIP DORFMAN
Mr, Dunham, My name is Barrows Dunham, B-a-r-r-o-w-s
D-u-n-h-a-m.
Mr. Tavenner, Are you accompanied by counsel ?
Mr. Dunham. I am.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. DoRFMAN. My name is Philip Dorfman, D-o-r-f-m-a-n, 820
Lewis Tower Building, Philadelphia, Pa.
Mr. Tavenner, The conditions are rather crowded in the room, and
if in the course of your testimony you desire to speak privately with
your counsel outside of the room, you may be permitted to do that.
Will you please state your present address, Mr, Dunham ?
Mr, Dunham. 127 Bentley Avenue, B-e-n-t-1-e-y, Cynwyd, Pa.,
C-y-n-w-y-d.
* The interrogation of Barrows Dunham, held in executive session, was released to the
press on the same day, February 27, 195o.
117
118 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Dunham. Mr. Tavenner, at this point I shall seek the protec-
tion of the fifth amendment and decline to answer that question on
the ground that it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. I ask that the witness be directed to answer that
question as being part of tlie necessary identification of that witness.
Mr. Walter. May I suggest that the question be divided in two?
When were you born ?
Mr. Dunham. I give the same answer as before.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that you direct the wit-
ness to answer the question.
Mr. Velde. The witness is directed to answer the question which
the Chair feels is a proper question in order to identify the witness.
Mr. Dunham. I was born on the 10th of October, 1905.
Mr. Tavenner. Where?
Mr. Dunham. Mount Holly, N. J.
Mr. Clardy. These unfamiliar names are rather hard to get.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please ?
Mr. Dunham. H-o-l-l-y.
Mr. Tavenner. We will appreciate it if you will raise your voice
a little bit. It is difficult to hear.
Will you state for the committee, please, what your educational
training has been; that is, your formal educational training?
Mr. Dunham. I plead my constitutional immunity again, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I suggest the witness be directed to answer the
question.
Mr. Velde. The witness is directed to answer this question.
Mr. Dunham. I stand on the same grounds, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. What grounds are those, Mr. Dunham ?
Mr. Dunham. On the ground that the answer to that question may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Walter. Do we want to waste any more time ?
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr, Velde. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Clardy. Does the record show clearly that on this question he
is commanded to give a direct answer ?
Mr. Velde. Yes. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. It would be my suggestion, Mr. Chairman, as far as
I am concerned, that tliose questions which are necessary for proper
identification of the witness be asked, and the directions be made a part
of the record and the declination to answer be made a part of the
record, so that if it is necessary, any subsequent action may be taken by
the committee.
Mr. Velde. The Chair rules that you will proceed to make the neces-
sary interrogations to identify the witness, occupation, and so forth.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat is your present occupation ?
Mr. Dunham. I decline to answer on the grounds that I gave before.
(Representative Francis Walter left the hearing room at this point.)
Mr. Tavenner. I suggest that the witness be directed to answer the
question.
Mr. Velde. The witness is directed to answer the question.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 119
Mr. DuxHAM. My answer is the same, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardt, What do you mean by "the same" ?
Mr. Dunham. I mean that under the fifth amendment I decline to
answer on the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman, in light
of the witness' answers.
Mr. Velde. Do you have any further questions ?
Mr. Jacksox. No, I have no further questions.
Mr. Clardy. I have none.
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
(Whereupon the witness was excused and the subcommittee re-
mained in executive session in the furtherance of its business.)
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Blum, Emanuel 83
Boorstin, Daniel J 36, 47-62 (testimony), 104
Bridges, Harry "^4
Browder. Earl 30, 75, 77, 79, 81, 108
Clark, Margot 8, 9, 35
Cvetic, Matt HI
Davles, Rev. Dr. A. Powell 44
Davis, Benjamin J., Jr 84
Davis, Robert Gorham 1-44 (testimony), 57, 58, 61, 104, 105
Dennis, Eugene 82, 83
Dmytryk. Edward - 3
Dodd, Bella 22
Dorfman, Philip H'^
Douglas, Dorothy W 23, 25, 38
Dunham, Barrows 117-119 (testimony)
Forer, Joseph 62, 78
Foster, William Z 29, 30
Frank. Richard 30
Frankfeld, Phil 8, 9, 10, 28. 33, 34, 58, 59, 105, 106, 107
Furry, Wendell H., Dr 37, 62-95 (testimony), 103, 105
Gates, John 84
Goodwin, Richard M 36, 53, 56
Gordon, Hv 8, 9, 35
Haldane, Prof. J. B. S 69, 72
Hall, Gus 84
Green, Gilbert_ 84
Halperin, Israel 37, 56, 66, 68, 71, 72, 104
Harap, Louis 7, 11, 105
Hendley, Charles 22
Hicks, Granville 33, 36, 53, 54, 56, 95-115 (testimony)
Hook, Sidney 38
Jerome, V. J 33, 111
Joliot-Curie, Mme. Irene ^ 76
Kuhn, Fritz 81
Lathrop (Lothrop), Rev. Donald G 85
Lattimore, Owen 59
Lawson, John Howard 100
Loonin, Gordon, Capt 68
Lothrop, Rev. Donald G. ( See Rev. Donald G. Lathrop. )
Lumpkin, Katherine 23, 38
McGarvey, Hulda 21. 25
Matthiessen, F. O 101
jNIay, Allan Nunn 67
Ma.vberry, George 36, 105
Medina, Judge 84
Miscell, Prof. Donald 87
Oxnam, Bishop [G. Bromley] 42,44
Parry, William 7, 35
Pellev. William Dudley 81
» Philbrick, Herbert 69
Potash, Irving 84
Rackliffe, Jack 36, 56, 104
Reynolds, John Henry 36
Robbins, Herbert 37
121
122 INDEX
Page
Savre, Very Kev. Francis B., Jr 44
Schlatter, Richard 36, 53, 56, 57, 104
.Schulhers, P.udd 3
Sheer. Knbby 37
Sillen, Saimiel 22
Smith, Gerald L. K 81
Stachel, Jack—J 19. 20, 22, 24
Stern, Bernhard 97, 98, 100
Thompson, Robert G 84
Van Black, Prof. J .H 73
Wilkerson, Doxie 21
Williamson, John B 84
Winston, Harry 84
Winter, Carl 84
Wortis, Dr 38
Organizations
American Association for the Advancement of Science 63, 65, 66
American Association of Scientific Workers—, 63, 65, 66, 68
American Association of University Professors 3ii
American Committee for Intellectual Freedom _112
American Committee for Protection of Foreign-Born 85-87
American Federation of Teachers (A. F. of L.) {see also Teachers'
Union) 10, 20, 22, 23, 30, 31, 54
American Federation of Labor — 10. 54
American .lewish Congress 34
American League Against War and Fascism ^ 26
American Peace Mobilization — 27. .jij
American League for Peace and Democracy 9, 26, 27. 55
American Youth for Democracy- 6!)
American Writers Congress {see also Congress of American Writers) JMt
Americans for Democratic Action 112
P.ritish Association for the Advancement of Science 72
California Institute of Technology 62
Canil)ridge Union of University Teachers 11
Civil Rights Congress 68, 69, 70, 83, 87
Committee to Defend the Eleven [Communist] Defendants ^ 92
Congress of American Writers {see also American Writers Congress) 97,08
Depauw University *i2
German-American Bund 81, 8s
Harvard (University) (College) 4,6,7,
10, 12, 14, 16. 24. 30-32, 37. 48, 52-56, 63-66, 71, 73, 74, 78, 84, 88.
94-96. 101, 103. 104, 106. 110.
Harvard Teachers' Union (see also Teachers' Union) 54
Hillel Foundation 51
International Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union 74
John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation 72
Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 76. 77
League of American Writers 38, 98
League of Nations 5
Lend-Lease Administration 48
Massachusetts Federation of Teachers 25
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 63, 64, 87, 88
National Education Association 30
National Federation of Constitutional Liberties 74
National Federation of Teachers 21, 25
National Research Council 62
Naval Research Laboratory i. 87
Naval Research Bureau Sl»
Oxford Uiiiv«'rsity 48-50, 53
Progressive Book Shop 8
Radcliffe College 48
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 4, 96-100
Royal Canadian Commission 67
Samuel Adams School 69
INDEX 123
Page
Scieutitic and Cultural Conference for World Peace 38
Screen Writers' Gi;ild 3
Silver Shirts 81, 88
Simmons College 25
Smith College _— ^- 3, 15, 21, 23, 25, 38, 96
Swarthmore College * ^S
Subversive Activities Control Board 91
Teachers' Union 9, 10-13, 17-19, 21-25, 30, 38, 54, 55, 63, 71, 88, 105
University of California 62
University of Chicago 48, 51
Universtiy of Illinois 62
Yanks Are Not Coming Committee 27
Young Communist League 16, 30, 32, 106
Wellesley College 25
Yale University 48, 52
Publications
Commentary 38, 111
Daily Worker 22, 35, 52, 59, 74, 75, 78, 82, 84, 85, 86, 108
Jewish Affairs 7, 11
Harper's HI
London Worker 69
Masses and Mainstream 22
Nation HI
New Leader 38, 111
New Masses 96, 97, 99, 100
New Republic HI
New York Times 38
Partisan Review 38, 111
Science and Society 28, 37
The Worker 74
X
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(EDUCATION—PART 2)
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEEICAN ACTIVITIES
* "^"^'"'HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-THIRD COXGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MARCH 12, 13, 17, 18, APRIL 14 AND 16, 1953
Printed fof the use'of the Committee on Un-American Activities
INCLUDING INDEX
UNITED STATES
(lOVERNMENT PRIXTINC OFFICE
30172 WASHINGTON : 1953
Boston Public Library
Superintendent of Documents
JUN 1 - 1953
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of REa>RESENTATivES
HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman
BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER. Pennsylvania
DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri
KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California
GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. PRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee
Robert L. Kunzig^ Counsel
Frank S. Tavenner, Jr.. Counsel
Louis J. Russell, Chief Investigator
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chic] Clerk
Raphael I. Nixon, Director 0/ Research
II
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, T9th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
^ ***** m
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin ar.d
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Consti-
tution, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has fidjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any persoa
designated by any such chairman or member.
Ill
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D COXGRESS
House Resolution 5, Januarj' 3, 1953
*(• #P *}* *|* •!> ■(• «|E
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con-
gress, the follo\A ing standing committees :
* *t* «i« ^^ «^ «^ «^
^^ ^» *!» •^ tf^ »^
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
* ^M0 ^^ «^ ftlf 4f ^M
•P *^ #p ^* *J* *^
Rule XI
POWEES AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
* ^j ^* •fe »^ "it •fa
i|* «|v ij* •^ ^^ •^
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American proi>
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other cpiestions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, tlie Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such \^itnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subp-enas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig-
nated by any such chairman or member,
IV
CONTENTS
Page
March 12, 1953, testimony of Abraham Glasser 125
March 13, 1953, testimony of —
Byron Thorwell Darling 129
Dorothy W. Douglas 154
March 17, 1953, testimony of Hulda Rees Flynn 161
March 18, 1953, testimony of Abraham Glasser 179
April 14, 1953, testimony of Daniel Fine 223
April 16, 1953, testimony of Wendell Hinkle Furry 245
V
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(Education— Part 2)
THURSDAY, MARCH 12, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
public hearing
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, at
10:50 a. m., in room 429, Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold
H. Velde (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy,
Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, and James B.
Frazier, Jr.
Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Taven-
ner Jr., counsel ; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator ; Raphael I. Nixon,
director of research ; James A. Andrews and Earl L. Fuoss, investiga-
tors; and Thomas TV. Beale, Sr., chief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The meeting will come to order.
Let the record show Mr. Kearney, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Clardy, Mr.
Scherer, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and the chairman present
and constituting a quorum.
Mr. Counsel, proceed.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Abraham Glasser, please step forward.
Mr. Glasser, will you please be sworn ?
Mr. Velde. Would you raise your right hand ?
Mr. Glasser. I would like to be sworn on my own Bible, Mr. Chair-
man. May I do that ?
Mr. Velde. Certainly,
In the testimony you are about to give, do you solemnly swear you
will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Glasser. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM GLASSER
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Glasser, are you accompanied by counsel ?
Mr. Glasser. I am not accompanied by counsel.
Mr. Kunzig. Will you explain the situation ?
Mr. Velde. You may be seated, Mr. Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. I prefer to testify standing up, if I may, Mr. Chair-
man.
125
126 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. Glasser. Isthereany objection to that?
Mr. Velde. No, sir.
Mr. Glasser. I am not accompanied by counsel for the following
reasons : My counsel is Leonard B. Boudin of New York City. Mr.
Boudin accompanied me to Washington yesterday on the Congres-
sional. We reached Washington about 8 o'clock. He proceeded to
the place where he was staying, and my wife and I went to our hotel.
Then we joined Mr. Boudin about 9 : 30 and walked in to find he was
on the long-distance telephone, having just received a telephone call
from the hospital where his wife is a patient. The news to Mr. Boudin
was that his wife had been very, very seriously stricken and was pos-
sibly in a — in danger of death.
Now, I told Mr. Boudin I thought he should immediately go to her
up in Connecticut and I would either appear without counsel or would
attempt to get an adjournment.
Now, Mr, Boudin wrote out a quick note to me setting forth the
facts, listing the name of the hospital, the name of the doctor, which
I think the committee has probably seen by now. I furnished that
note to Mr. Kunzig this morning.
Mr. Kunzig. That is correct, sir. I read the contents of that note
to the committee.
Mr. Glasser. Now, I prefer — in fact, I think I take the position
that I would decline to proceed without counsel. Of course, if the
committee forces me to proceed, I would — I would then have to con-
sider the situation.
I respectfully request that the committee wait. It won't be more
than a few days, I am sure, until Mr. Boudin's situation is clarified,
and
Mr. Velde. Wliat is your recommendation, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Kunzig. May I be heard on this, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Velde. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kunzig. As you know, I am new here, but I would like to state
my viewpoint on this,
In tlie interest of fairness, I feel that this committee should — and I
earnestly urge this committee — grant a continuance in this case,
Mr. Walter. For how long ?
Mr. Kunzig. Say the beginning of next week, at the discretion of
the committee.
Mr. Kearney, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde, Mr, Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. I would suggest the continuance be granted the wit-
ness until next Wednesday,
Mr. Glasser. Pardon.
Mr. Kearney, Until next Wednesday.
Mr. Clardy. I concur in that.
Mr. Velde. Mr, Glasser, would it be possible and probable that
you would be able to obtain new counsel or your present counsel by
next Wednesday ?
Mr, Glasser," Of course, it is possible to obtain new counsel, always,
Mr. Boudin and I have been in skull practice on this thing for
about — well, since I was served a subpena on February 10. We hap-
pen to be neighbors and we're literally — almost literally — in daily
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 127
conference over this entire period. We have developed a team feeling
on it which would be hard to supplant with other counsel.
But naturally I don't expect that the unavailability of my counsel for
an indefinite time should be taken by this committee as a reason for
not calling me at all. I realize that.
Mr. Walter. ]Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. What do you mean by "skull practice" ? You weren't
arranging some sort of an act to put on, were you ?
Mr. Glasser. Skull practice, sir, is a term from football.
Mr. Walter. Yes ; I understand that very well.
Mr. Glasser. And I meant we were preparing.
Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Glasser, the committee has always, with every
witness, granted the right to that witness to have counsel to appear
and consult with the witness, and in this particular case we will grant
you the same privilege which has in the past been granted.
So, this meeting is adjourned until next Wednesday, at which time
your subpena is continued.
Mr. Glasser. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ?
INIay I ask a question, or are you already adjourned ?
Mr. Velde. No. Go ahead.
Mr. Glasser. My question is this : Mr. Boudin furnished to the com-
mittee's counsel earlier this week a final page proof of a statement
that was prepared by him concerning my case, and filed by him. Now,
T have with me the final print in numerous copies of that statement.
If there is some way, through my hand, that statement could be made
available to this committee, without the significance in the legal sense
being attached thereto that I am making a submission or an averment,
then, on behalf of Mr. Boudin, I would like to supply the committee
with the statement.
Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Glasser, that statement you refer to will be
considered by the committee when you appear here readj^ to testify
with counsel.
Mr. Glasser. I merely meant, sir, as of this moment the committee is
in possession of only one copy. I would like, if it is possible, as I said,
to arrange giving the committee additional copies without that being
construed as an act by me, an act of testifying.
You see, sir, I wanted to ask to do this before I took the oath.
INIr. Velde. We will hear no more of your testimony until next
Wednesday, and until that time the meeting is adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 10:56 a. m., the hearing was recessed until 10 a. m.,
Friday, March 13, 1953.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTEATION
(Education— Part 2)
FRIDAY, MARCH 13, 1953
United States House of Representatr^s,
Committee on Un-American AcTi\TnES,
Washington, D. C.
PUBLIC hearing
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess,
at 10 : 33 a. m., in room 429, Old House Office Building, Honorable
Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Represenatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clarcly,
Gordon H. Scherer (appearance noted in transcript), Francis E.
Walter, and Clyde Doyle.
Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Louis J. Russell,
chief investigator; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; James A.
Andrews and Earl L. Fuoss, investigators; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr.,
chief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The meeting will come to order.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Darling.
Would you be sworn, Mr. Darling, please?
Mr. Velde. Raise your right hand.
In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do
you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Darling. I do.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Darling
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point a quorum of the com-
mittee is present, consisting of Mr. Kearney, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Clardy,
Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, and the chairman.
TESTIMONY OF BYRON THOEWELL DAELING, ACCOMPANIED BY
HIS COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Darling, will you state your full name?
Mr. Darling. My full name is Byron Thorwell Darling.
Mr. Kunzig. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Darling?
Mr. Darling. I am.
Mr. Kunzig. Would counsel please identify himself ?
Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Darling, what is your present address?
Mr. Darling. My present address is 1870 North Fourth Street,
Columbus, Ohio.
Mr. Kunzig. And when and where were you born ?
Mr. Darling. I was born in Napoleon, Ohio, on January 4, 1912.
129
130 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. What is your present occupation ? _
Mr. Darling. I am at present a theoretical physicist at Ohio State
University.
Mr. KuNziG. Are you a teacher there, professor ?
Mr. Darling. Professor.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you furnish the committee with a resume of
your educational background ?
Mr. Darling. Starting
Mr. KuNziG. About high school.
(Kepresentative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at
this point.)
Mr. Darling. Well, I graduated from high school in — from Crane
Technical High School in Chicago in 1929 ; and in 1930 I went to the
University of Illinois and was a student there until 1936 ; and then
1 went to the University of Michigan and was a student there until
1938; and then I went to the University of Wisconsin and was a
student there from 1938 to 1939, at which time I returned to the Uni-
versity of Michigan and received my doctor's degi-ee; and then I was
an instructor, mathematics, at Michigan State College from 1940 to
1941.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, may I interrupt right there and say : Would you
tell the committee why you terminated your employment with Michi-
gan State College?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, I realized that we were about to become in-
volved in a war and I went to work in industry.
Mr. KuNziG. While employed at Michigan State, did you engage
in the distribution of Communist Party literature ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer the question, basing myself on
the. rights under the first amendment and the privilege under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. What privilege do you refer to in the fifth amendment?
Mr. Darling. In the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Darling. I refer to the fact that a witness may not give testi-
monv against himself.
Mr. kuNziG. Well, now, when you left Michigan State, did the
fact that it had been alleged that you distributed Communist Party
literature have anything to do with your leaving?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Clardt. Counsel, I have a question at that juncture, if I may.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardt. Isn't it true. Witness, that subsequent to your leaving
you sought to obtain a recommendation from the college at East Lans-
ing and they reiPused to give you such recommendation?
(At this "point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, I don't recall.
Mr. Clardt. You don't recall making the application for a recom-
mendation?
Mr. Darling. No; I don't — would you state that — what recom-
mendation is that again?
Mr. Clardt. When you sought to obtain a teaching ]ob at some
place after vou left the college at East Lansing, IMichigan State
College, did^ou not ask someone at East Lansing for a character
COIMAIUXIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 131
or other reference as to yonr teaching ability so that you might obtain
a job somewhere else, and was that not refused to you ^
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't remember.
]\lr. Kearney. Witness, you understand you are under oath?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
]Mr. Kearney. And can 3-ou answer the Congressman's question
definiteh^?
Mr. Darling. The best I can say is that I don't recall.
Mr. Clardy. Xo recollection of it whatever?
Mr. Darling. No recollection of it.
Mr. Clardy. Then you wouldn't at present deny the fact that it
was refused to you i You wouldn't make a categorical denial at this
moment (
( At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Xo ; of course not.
Mr. Clardy. What is that ?
Mr. Darling. X'^o.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, then, Mr. Darling, we were up to Michigan
State. Would you carry on from there to your employment and
your teaching?
Mr. Darling. Well, after the — the next I went to the University
of Wisconsin in 1946, and was there until February 1947; and then
I went to the Yale University until the end of the semester.
Mr. KuNziG. And where
Mr. Darling. And then, after that, I came to Ohio State Univer-
sity to teach.
Mr. KuNziG. And you are still at Ohio State?
Mr. Darling. I am still at Ohio State University.
Mr. Kearney. Were you ever discharged from any university at
which you taught for alleged Communist activities?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. KuNZiG. Were you ever connected with the Pennsylvania State
College in a war-training program?
Mr. Forer. Excuse me just a moment.
Mr. Kltnzig. I'm sorry. Go right ahead.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred w^ith Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I'd like to change my answer to that last question
and state that to the best of my knowledge I never was.
Mr. Kearney. Xever was what?
Mr. Dari.ing. Would you put the question again?
Mr. Kunzig. Shall we have it repeated ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Will you read the question ?
(The reporter read the question as follows: "Were you ever dis-
charged from any university at which you taught for alleged Commu-
nist activities?")
Mr. Kunzig. My next question is
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. Let the witness answer this question.
]\Ir. Kunzig. Pardon me, sir.
132 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Darling. Well, to the best of my knowledge, my answer is
"No." I don't recall.
Mr. Walter. Were you discharged from Michigan State College
because of alleged Communist activities on your part?
Mr. Darling. As far as I can remember
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr, Darling. Well, I'd say not so far as I know.
Mr, Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel,
Mr. KuNziG, Now, were you ever connected with Pennsylvania State
College in one of those war-training programs?
Mr. Darling. Yes ; I was in the summer of 1941, 1 believe.
Mr. KuNziG. In what capacity ?
Mr. Darling. I was teaching.
]SIr. KuNziG. Now, would you furnish the committee with a resume
of your employment other than universities ?
Mr. Darling. I was employed at Western Electric Co. in Chicago
in 1929 to 19o0, and then I was employed at the United States Rubber
Co. in Detroit from 1941 to 1946,
Mr. KuNziG. Now, under wdiat circumstances did you transfer to
Yale University?
Mr. Darling. I was transferred to Yale University when Professor
Breit's group transferred there.
Mr. KuNziG. Is that Dr. Gregory Breit ?
Mr. Darling, That is Dr. Gregory Breit.
Mr. Kunzig. When you left Wisconsin and went to Yale with Dr.
Breit, did any other professors leave the University of Wisconsin
and accompany Dr. Breit to Yale ?
Mr. Darling. I believe no other professors left.
Mr. Kunzig. Were there any students that left ?
Mr. Darling. Yes; there were other students that left.
Mr. Kunzig. Was Paul Zilsel one?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig, Do you know his present address ?
Mr. Darling. His present address is the University of Connecticut.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Darling, were you ever acquainted with Gerald
Edward Brown?
Mr, Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Did he also accompany you to Yale?
Mr. Darling. I— yes ; I think he did. I don't remember whether
or not he was a member of the — our group at Wisconsin or whether
he was at Yale. I think he was at Wisconsin.
Mr. Kunzig. Well, now, when you used the expression ' oii' group,"
just what do you mean by that expression?
Mr. Darling. I mean the group of students working ui;dcr Profes-
sor Breit.
Mr. Kunzig. I see.
Was that a special group of some kind ?
Mr. Darling. That was a group of students working on his project.
Mr. Kunzig. "Wliat project w^as that, Mr. Darling?
Mr. Darling. Tliat was the — I think it was a Navy project.
Mr. Kunzig. A Navy project. Would you describe it in more detail
to the committee ?
Mr. Darling. Well, it was a project that we worked on in theoretical
physics.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 133
Mr. KuNziG. Was it classified or unclassified?
Mr. Darling. To the best of my knowledge it was unclassified.
Mr. KuNziG. What year was this ?
Mr. Darling. That was 1946 to 1947.
Mr. KuNziG. Just at the end of the war?
Mr. Darling. Just at the end ; yes, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, while you were at Yale University, were you
a member of any branch of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you work with any Communist cell there?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you belong to any organizations to which Gerald
Edward Brown also belonged?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that one — question — for the same
reason.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you belong to any organizations to which Paul
R. Zilsel also belonged while at Yale University ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. I'd like the record to show that Dr. Gregory Breit has
been entirely cleared as to any question concerning loyalty.
Mr. Darling, have you ever used any name other than that of
Darling?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you ever a member
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever been in possession of a Communist
Party card?
]Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
jMr. Velde. Proceed, INIr. Counsel.
]Mr. Walter. Just a moment, Mr. Counsel. You asked him if he
had ever used another name. Have you information that he did and,
if so, wliat Avas the name you think he used, and will you ask him if
he used that name ?
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever use the name of Springer?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you ever a member of the Midtown Club of
the Communist Party in Detroit?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
]Mr. Kfnzig. Were you ever a member of the First Congressional
District Branch of the Communist Party in Detroit, Mich. ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, Mr. Darling, were you ever a member of any
other cell of the Communist Party?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Ktjnzig. Were you acquainted with Dr. Joseph Weinberg ?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you describe to the committee the circum-
stances of your acquaintance with Dr. Weinberg?
134 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Darling. We were students together at the University of Wis-
consin in 19— let's see— when was that?— 1938 to possibly 1939, I be-
lieve it was.
Mr. KixziG. Did yon ever belong to any organizations to which
Dr. Joseph Weinberg belonged ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. SciiERER. May I interru])t ?
When was your last contact with Dr. Weinberg?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mv. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. To the best of my recollection, I met him last at the
January meeting of the American Physical Society in 19 — well, a year
ago— 1952.
Mr. SciiERER. What was the nature of your contact with him at that
time. Professor?
Mr. Darling. Why, we simply — [at this point Mr. Darling con-
ferred with Mr. Forer] we were in a corridor to one of the meetings
and we said "Hello."
Mr. ScHERER. Is that all the contact you had with him at that time ?
No other discussions?
Mr. Darling. Just that — that's all, in that hallway there. That's
all — just in that corridor.
Mr. Ki'nzig. Mr. Darling, are you a member of the American Physi-
cal Society?
Mr. Darling. I am.
Mr. KuNziG. Is Dr. Weinberg a member?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't know.
Mr. Kunzig. Well, did you ever attend meetings of the society with
Dr. Weinberg, associate with him there?
Mr. Darling. I just mentioned
Mr. Kunzig. Yes. Any others?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Kearney. Are any outsiders allowed to
Mr. Velde. He is conferring with counsel. He hasn't answered
yet.
Mr. Darling. Well, I have met him at — one that I recall — Wash-
ington meeting of the American Physical Society several years ago.
I don't recall exactly which one it was, and I may have met at other
meetings but I don't recall.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever attend any Communist Party meetings
witli Dr. Joseph Weinberg?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Kunzig. Were you a member of any branch of the Communist
Party together with Dr. Joseph Weinberg?
Ml-. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Kunzig. Are 3^011 now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever at any time been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 135
Mr. IvEARNET. Would you state to this committee if you were not
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever traveled abroad?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mv. KuNziG. Where?
Mr. Darling. I was — I Avent to Canada in 1949 to attend the Aurora
Conference.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain to the committee just what that
conference was?
Mr. Darling. Well, it was a conference that was studying the
physics of the aurora.
Mv. KuNziG. Who sent you or invited
Mr. Darling. It was
Mr. Kunzig. You to this conference?
Mr. Darling. United States Air — it was sponsored by the United
States Air Force.
Mr. Kunzig. Did the United States Air Force send you or invite
vou ?
Mr. Darling. Invited me.
Mr. Kunzig. What year was that ?
Mr. Darling. I think it was in 1949 — the summer of 1949.
Mr. Kunzig. W^ell, now, I just want to get this clear. At the time
the Air Force invited you to go to its conference, was that after the
time you left Michigan State ?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. I see.
Mr. Darling. That was 1949.
Mr. Kunzig. Yes.
!Mr. Walter. Professor, you say you were invited through the Air
Force. Who extended the invitation ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, as I recall, it was Mr. Chapman.
Mr. Walter. Chapman?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Walter. Do you know what his first name was?
Mr. Darling. No; I don't know his first name.
Mr. Walter. Wliat position did he hold in the Air Force?
Mr. Darling. I don't know that.
Mr. Walter. W^as he a civilian employee of the Air Force?*
Mr. Darling. Yes; I believe he was.
Mr. Walter. Do you know what his first name was?
Mr. Darling. I don't know what his first name was.
Mr. Walter. Do you
Mv. Darling. I can't recollect.
Mr. Walter. Remember the date?
Mr. Darling. I can't recollect. I have been introduced to him and
learned the first name, but I don't recollect it.
Mv. W/lter. Where did you meet him. Professor?
Mr. Dai Ling. I met him at— —
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I met him at Ohio State University.
30172—53 — pt. 2 2
136 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr, Walter. Who introduced you to liim ?
Mr. Darling. Let's see — I think it was Professor — I don't know
whether it Avas Professor Nielsen or Professor Williams. I don't
recollect.
]\Ir. Walter. Were either of those professors members of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Darlixg. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. KuxziG. Have you finished, sir ?
]\Ir. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. All rjfjht.
Now, were there any other representatives from the United States
present at that Conference?
Mr. Darling. Yes; there were many professors and physicists,
chemists.
Mr. Kunzig. From various universities?
Mr. Darling. Various universities.
Mr. Kunzig. Are you acquainted with Richard F. O'Hair?
(At this point Mr. Darlinc; conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Not to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever heard of Richard O'Hair?
(At tliis point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. In what connection ?
Mr. Darling. In connection with the proceedings of this committee.
Mr. Kunzig. Professor, are you at present engaged in research for
the United States Air Force?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Would you explain to the committee just what that
project is?
Mr. Darling. That project has for its objective the theoretical
study of the ozone molecule.
Mr. Kunzig. Does it have a number ?
Mr. Darling. Project No. 381.
Mr. Kunzig. Is it classified or unclassified?
Mr. Darling. It's unclassified, to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. Kunzig. Would you state to the committee what other work, if
any, you have done for the United States Government?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with INIr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I worked on that Navy project that I
Mr. Kunzig. That you previously mentioned ?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Anything else ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, as far as I know, the answer is "No."
Mr. Kunzig. Now, have you ever had access to classified material
pertaining to the United States Air Force or any other branch of
the United States armed services ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Keai;ney. Have you passed any of that classified material to
other persons?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr, Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 137
Mr. KuNZiG. Well, now, when you were working for the Air Force,
(lid you have to fill out cany particular form, employment form, any-
thing of that nature?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I'd like to explain that I was not working directly
for the Air Forces, but I was working on a project for them.
Mr. KuNZiG. Well, even on this project for them, did you have to
fill out any documents, any informational forms, any security forms?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
INIr. Darling. The answer is "No," to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Walter. On that Air Force project you were working on, did
this man Chapman, who was responsible for your attending a con-
ference in Canada, have anything to do with your selection?
Mr. Darling. Selection for working on the project?
]Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr, Kunzig. Did any person unauthorized
Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt again?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. You are now working on a project for the United
States Air Force, presently, aren't you, Professor ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. ^Y[mt was that question again ?
Mr. ScHERER. You are presently working on a project for the
United States Air Force?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. Now, you said you are not working directly for
them?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. You are being paid by the Federal Government,
aren't you ?
Mr. Darling. Well, I believe the Federal Government has a con-
tract with the research foundation.
Mr. Scherer. Well, you get=
Mr. Darling. In other words, my check doesn't come from the Fed-
eral Government, as far as I know.
Mr. Scherer. But you get a separate check from Ohio University
and a separate check for the work that you are doing on this gov-
ernmental project?
Mr. Darling. That is correct.
Mr. Scherer. That is the work you are doing for the Air Force is
paid in addition to your compensation as a professor at Ohio State
University ?
Mr. Darling. That is correct.
Mr. Scherer. It is an indirect payment from the Government;
is that right?
Mr. Darling. That is my understanding.
Mr. Scherer. Now, do you have any other sources of income at
the present time ?
Mr. Darling. Do I what?
Mr. Scherer. Do you have any other sources at the present time?
Mr. Darling. No.
]\Ir. Scherer. Did you ever receive any compensation or anything
of value from the Communist Party?
138 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same rea-
sons.
Mr. SciiERER. Did you ever receive any compensation
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr, Darling. I'd like to change my answer to that previous ques-
tion. The answer is "No."
Mr. Forer. Excuse me, Mr. Scherer. I believe we interrupted you
in the middle of another question. Do you want the answer to that?
Mr. SCIIERER. No.
Mr. KuNziG. I have just 1 or 2 more questions on what the Con-
gressman was just asking you.
Have you ever received any funds from the Communist Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mr.
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever acted as a courier or agent or informer
for the Russian Government?
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Kearney. That is different from your answer yesterdav : isn't
it?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't recall the exact question.
Mr. Velde. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes.
(Thereupon, at 11 : 03 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 11:13 a. ul, the same day.)
(The hearing reconvened at 11 : 13 a. m., the following committee
members being present: Representatives Harold H. Velde (chair-
man), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson. Kit Clardy. Gordon
H. Scherer, and Francis E. Walter.)
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order.
Proceed.
Mr. Kearney. I would like to ask the professor a question that I
asked him yesterday.^ Have you ever acted as an agent for the
Communist Party?
(Representative Clyde Doyle entered the hearing room at this
point. )
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, what do you mean by "agent"?
Mr. Kearney. Well, let me give you your answer of yesterday :
"I refuse to answer that question for the aforementioned reasons."
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with ^Nlr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. All right; I'll refuse again
Mr. Kearney. You refuse to answer?
Mr. Darling. For the aforementioned
Mr. Kearney. You refuse to answer?
Have you ever met with functionaries of the Communist Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
1 Executive session, Maroli 12, 1953, not released by the committee.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 139
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever discussed the Communist Party with
functionaries of the Communist Party?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever met with any Communist Party
functionaries ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Kearney. And you still say that you refuse to state whether
you are a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Darling. A^^iy, yes; I refuse to state.
Mr. Walter. Professor, were you a member of the Communist
Party when you met this man Chapman from the Air Force ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Is Chapman a member of the Communist Party ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Not so far as I know.
Mr. Walter. Well, do you mean by that answer you discussed com-
munism with Mr. Chapman and that's why you were able to make
this answer you just made?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. The answer is '"No."
Mr. Doyle. How would jou know whether or not he was not a
member if you didn't know anything about the Communist Party
yourself ?
Mr. Forer. He didn't.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't know whether or not he was a member.
IVIr. Doyle. I thought your answer was : "Not as far as I know,"
wasn't it?
Mr. Darling. Well, what's the difference?
INIr. Doyle. I think there's a lot of difference.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kunzig. To go back to your present research for the United
States Air Force, I would like to explore just a little further one line
of questioning here. Have you ever had access to classified material
pertaining to the United States Air Force ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Clardy. Will you raise your voice. Witness? I can't hear
you at all.
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. With respect to the questions bearing on Mr. Chap-
man, I think the record should indicate in some manner that these
questions are solely of an exploratory nature at this time and should
not be taken to indicate that Mr. Chapman is a Communist or mem-
ber of the Communist Party, or has been, unless there is substantial
evidence in the possession of the committee to indicate that the ques-
tions and answers should stand as asked and given.
140 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
I merely want to make that point clear in the record — that the ques-
tions are solely in the nature of exploration and are not intended to
indicate that JNIr. Chapman is a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Velde. The Chair agrees, concurs heartily in the suggestion of
the gentleman from California, and the record will so show.
]\Ir. KuNziG. Do you at present have access to or in your possession,
in your work out there, in your office, classified material ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse for the aforementioned reasons.
Mr. Jacksox. Do I understand the answer of the witness to be that
he refuses to answer whether or not he is in possession of classified
information ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the afore-
mentioned reasons.
IMr. Jackson. Do you have in your possession, Professor, any classi-
fied information belonging to the United States Government?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the afore-
mentioned reasons.
Mr. Doyle. May I follow that question with this question : Do you
have in your possession, under your control, any place, any classified
material or information owned by the United States Government that
the Government doesn't know you have ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr, Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Clardt. Well, Witness, have you ever exhibited any of the
classified material to any unauthorized person at any time, any place,
anywhere ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
]\Ir. Clardt. Do you have with you on your person right now any
such information ?
(At this point ]\Ir. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Kearnet. That would be very foolish ; wouldn't it ?
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever at any time transferred any classified
information to any person ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Jackson. Let me clarify that. Have you ever transferred any
classified material in your possession to any person not authorized to
receive such information ?
Mv. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Jackson. Professor, you have refused to answer the question
whether or not you had classified material or information in your
possession on the grounds that to answer that question might incrimi-
nate you. What criminal ]:)rosecution do you feel could be brought
against you for having in your possession classified material?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
Mr. Jackson. Are you in a position or does the nature of your work
with the Air Force justify your possession of classified material?
(At this point INfr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. D \RLTNG. No; I've never been cleared.
Mr. Kearnet. I didn't get that.
Mr. Clardt. He has never been cleared.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 141
Mr. Jackson. Any-
Mr. Velde. I don't think the witness understood your question.
]Mr. Jackson. I will rephrase it.
I understand that you are presently working on a Government proj-
ect. Is the work of that project such that you might receive classified
material in the due process of your work
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr, Jackson. Or in the process of your work ?
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Jackson. Then, is the committee to understand that your re-
fusal to answer whether or not you have any classified material pre-
cludes the possibility of your having any authorized classified mate-
rial in your possession?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't understand the question.
Mr. Jackson. In the nature of your work, you are not authorized
to handle classified material ?
Mr. Darling. That is right.
Mr. Jackson. Is that correct?
Mr. Darling. That's right.
Mr. Jackson. You have refused to answer whether or not you now
have in your possession any classified information; is that correct?
Mr. Darling. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. Then, it would follow that any classified informa-
tion which you might conceivably have in your possession would not
come in the normal process of the work which you are doing?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, regardless of the nature of a project a man
is working on, he must be cleared in order to receive classified — he
must be cleared himself in order to receive classified material, and
to my knowledge I have not received such clearance.
Mr. Jackson. AVell, do you have in your possession classified
material ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Kearney. You have never been cleared by any agency of
Government.
Mr. Darling. So far as I know, I have not.
Mr. Kearney. Do you still refuse to answer whether or not you
have in your possession any classified material ?
Mr. Darling. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. Would a true answer to that question, Professor,
tend to incriminate you?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. It might.
Mr. Jackson. To say whether or not you have in your possession
classified material might tend to incriminate you ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. That's one of the grounds I've given for my refusal.
Mr. Jackson. I simply wanted to make it clear on the record.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question, please : Have you ever applied
for clearance to the United States Government?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
142 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]\fr. DoTT>E. Ill connection with your profession or occnpation?
(At this point Mr. Darling continued to confer with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Well, I believe I applied for clearance at a project—
another project— at Oak Kidge, but I received a wire stating that at
the time I had not been cleared yet.
Mr. Doyle. When was that?
Mr, Darling. And then I took another position.
Mr. Doyle. Wlien was that, sir ?
You haven't mentioned Oak Ridge before, as far as I know.
Mr. Darling. That was 1946, 1 believe.
Mr. Doyle. Since 1946, have you ever applied for clearance, either
you directly or at your request the agency with which you were work-
ing, if any?
Mr. Darling. Not so far as I know.
Mr. Doyle. In the course of your work, the present work for the
Navy, or any former Government work in which you were
engaged
Mr. Jackson. That is the Air Force, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Air Force — with any university with which you have
been or are associated in connection with project 381, or otherwise, did
any classified material come to your desk or your attention in the
normal functioning of your study ?
(At this point Mr. Darling continued to confer with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Doyle. In other words, even though you were not cleared
under
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. It's not supposed to come to you, I believe, unless you
are cleared.
Mr. Doyle. Well, has it come to you, although you were not cleared ?
That is my question.
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the afore-
mentioned reasons.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, to turn to your Ohio State University connec-
tion : You are presently there, is that right?
Mr. Darling. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. Are you a member of any Communist Party organiza-
tion at Ohio State?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason.
Mr. Kunzig. Well
Mr. Kearney. Is there evidence that there is a Communist Party
cell on the campus of Ohio State today?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons — reason.
Mr. Sciierer. Mr. Kearney, can I follow your question?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Sciierer. Have you attended any meeting of the Communist
Party on the Ohio State campus at any time?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kunzig. Have you written any books or pamphlets which have
been published by any group or organization?
COMISrUNIST JMETHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 143
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr, Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Doyle. You remember I asked you that same question yester-
day. I want to ask you now : What books or pamphlets have you
authored yourself in the last 5 or 6 years, either in connection with
your work as a theoretical physicist, or anything else?
(At this point Mr. Darling" conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Are you referring to papers that I've written in
physics ?
Mr. Doyle. Anything. You have testified that you are a theoreti-
cal physicist. Now, have you written some papers along that line?
Mr. Darling. Yes,
Mr. Doyle. If so, what? What papers? Where were they pub-
lished and when?
Mr. Darling. They were published in the Physical Review at vari-
ous times. I — if you want me to
JNIr. Doyle. Just mention 2 or 3 of them that you are most proud of,
Mr. Darling. Well, I'm very proud of the paper on the Theory of
the Water Vapor Molecule, which work I did in connection with Pro-
fessor Dennison. That particular paper — that is, on the Theory of
the Water Vapor Molecule — was one of the very finidamental papers
in the field of molecular spectroscop}'.
Mr. Doyle. When was that published?
Mr. Darling. That was published about 1940, 1 believe,
Mr. Don.E. Now, will you give me the name or subject matter of
one more that you are especially proud of?
Mr. Darling. Well, I have published a paper on The Irreducible
Volume Character of Events.
Mr. Doyle. When was that published ?
Mr. Darling. That was published in 1950.
Mr. Doyle. Now, have you published any pamphlet or booklet on
any other subject?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr, Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Doyle. Wliat are the reasons that you now refuse to state the
name of any other pamphlet or books that you have written?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. DoY'LE. I didn't hear your reason as to why you refused to givo
your authorship.
Mr. Darling. The first and fifth amendment.
Mr, Doyle, Oh,
Mr, Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, when you wrote these books and pamphlets,
did you ever write any not under your own name, Mr. Darling?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
]\Ir. KuNziG. Have you lectured to any group or meeting, or spoken
at meetings, under any other name than your own ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons,
Mr. Kearney, Have you ever written for any Communist publi-
cations?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
144 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy. Are you a subscriber to any Communist publications ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. Clardy. Do you receive any, whether you are a subscriber
or not?
Mr. Darlixg. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. KuxziG. Was it under your own name the last time you had
spoken to any gi-oup outside of your classes?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. KuxziG. Aside from speaking here yesterday?
Mr. Darling. What was that question again ?
Mr. KuNziG. Whether you spoke under your own name the last time
you recently spoke to groups outside of your classes?
(At tliis point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. KuNziG. Wliat city or cities have you spoken in to groups out-
side of your classes?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been paid for articles or speeches other
than speeches that you make to your own students in the class?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever received any pay from the Communist
Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. ScHERER. Yesterday you answered that question, Professor, I
believe, by refusing to answer that question on the grounds that it
would incriminate you. Why do you change your answer today ?
Mr. Darling. Well, I — yesterday — I'm not certain exactly what the
question was and what my answer was
Mr. ScHERER. Well, I asked you this
Mr. Darling. And what
Mr. ScHERER. Refreshing your recollection, I asked you this ques-
tion yesterday : "Have you ever received any funds from the (IJom-
munist Party?" and the record shows your answer was: "I refuse to
answer that question for the same reason."
Mr. Darling. That's not the same question.
Mr. ScHERER. Well, I will ask you again today the same question.
Have you ever received any funds from the Communist Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. A few minutes ago I understood you to answer a ques-
tion by one of my colleagues that you had not been paid any compensa-
tion by the Communist Party for any services rendered.
Mr. Darling. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. Is that correct ?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Have you rendered any service to the Communist Party
in America that you haven't received compensation for?
Mr. Darling, t refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 145
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever written any books or pamphlets, either
under your own name or under the name of Springer, dealing with
the subject of communism or Marxism that you haven't received com-
pensation for?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
!Mr. KuNziG. Xow, those are all the questions we have, JNIr. Chair-
man. There are certain other questions that might be asked, but they
have to do with phases of the investigation of the educational field that
are not pertinent at the moment. We don't wish to go into those at
the present time.
Mr. Velde. All right.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you kindly spell molecular, and so forth, to
be sure the reporter gets tlie spelling.
Mr. Darling. Which — molecular or spectroscopy?
Mr. Russell. Spectroscopy.
JSIr. Darling. Spectroscopy — s-p-e-c-t-r-o-s-c-o-p-y.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kearney. I will waive questions at this time.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. You are a physicist ; is that correct ?
]Mr. Darling. That is correct.
Mr. Jackson. Has your work as a physicist taken you into the field
of atomic fission?
Mr. Darling. My work directly, you mean ?
Mr. Jackson. Directly or indirectly — —
Mr. Darling. Well
Mr. Jackson. In any way.
Mr. Darling. Directly, no ; but indirectly, of course, every theoreti-
cal physicist that is actively engaged in research in a fundamental
way, knows the field of — knows about these sorts of things.
Mr. Jackson. Has any person known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party ever requested information from you relating
to your work or your research in the field of atomic energy ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Jackson. Did you ever communicate to any person known to
you to be a member of the Communist Party any information rela-
tive to nuclear phvsics or to atomic energy?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever transmitted any type of confidential
or secret information to any person whom you knew to be a member
of the Communist Party or had reason to believe was an agent of
the Communist Party ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. The answer to that question is "No."
^Ir. Jackson. You have never transmitted any type of informa-
tion of a confidential or secret nature to any person known to you to
be a member of the Communist Party ?
jSfr. Darling. That is correct.
146 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Jacksox. Have 3^011 ever been asked to transmit snch infor-
mation?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
]\[r. Darling. No.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever been solicited to transmit such in-
formation?
(At this point ]\Ir. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. The same question — the answer is "No."
Mv. Jackson. A little while ago I asked you if any person known
to you to be a member of the Communist Party ever requested infor-
mation from you. I believe that your answer to that question was
that you declined to answer. Is that correct ?
(xVt this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I think that you didn't ask me that question before.
I thinlv it was a different question.
Mr. Jackson. It was different only to the extent that it dealt with
your work in the field of atomic energy.
Has any person known to you to be a member of the Communist
Party ever requested information from you relating to your work
in the field of nuclear physics?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with ]\Ir. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. Jackson. It seems to me there is a considerable area of con-
fusion here, in that you refuse to answer whether you have ever
been requested by a member of the Comnnmist Party to give infor-
mation relating to your work in the field of atomic physics or atomic
fission, but then you state that you have never done so. _
Mr. FoREl?. No; there's a difference in the questions. One was
with reference to secret and confidential and the other was just on
the subject of physics.
Mr. Jackson. Let's start back at the beginning
Mr. Forer. All right.
Mr. Jackson. And get this straightened out.
Has any person known to you to be a member of the Communist
Party ever requested information from you relating to your work in
the field of atomic energy or atomic fission ?
(At this point Mr, Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned rea-
sons.
Mr. Jackson. Did you ever transmit to any person known to you
to be a member of the' Communist Party any information relating to
your work in the field of atomic energy or atomic fission ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned rea-
sons.
Mr. Jackson. Did you ever communicate any such information to
a member of the Communist Party or one you had reason to believe
was an agent of the Communist Party?
Mr, Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Jackson. Well, now we are getting straightened out here.
Yesterday you were asked. Professor
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
COMJMUXIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 147
Mr. Jackson (continuing). If a'ou had knowledge of a man by
the
Mr. FoREK. Excuse me.
Mr. Jackson (continuing). Name of Richard O'Hair, I believe.
Mr. FoRER. Mav we interrupt 1 second, Mr. Jackson ?
Mr. Jackson. Yes.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I would like to repeat that I have never given any
secret or confidential information to anybody that was believed — —
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling (continuing). Or known to me to be a member of the
Communist Part3^
Mr. Jackson. Did you ever disclose to any person known to you
or believed by you to be a member of the Communist Party any
secret or confidential information — and I am now distinguishing be-
tween secret and confidential information in general and information
having to do with your work in the field of fission or atomic energy ?
Mr. Darling. The answer is "No."
Mr. Jackson. You never disclosed to any person anv information
of that kind?
Mr. Darling. That is correct.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever had in your possession any informa-
tion of that kind, of a secret or confidential nature ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Jackson. Touching again on the matter of Mr. Richard O'Hair,
I believe on yesterday you said you had heard of Mr. O'Hair as having
been a witness before this committee. Did you read the testimony of
Mr. O'Hair?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Has it been your custom to read the testimony of all
the witnesses appearing before this committee ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Jackson. Would you care to state what particular interest mo-
tivated vou in reading Mr. O'Hair's testimony?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No : I would not care to state.
Mr. Jackson. Will you state your interest in Mr. O'Hair's testi-
mony ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse for the aforementioned reasons.
IVIr. Jackson. Are you related by blood or marriage to a member
of the Communist Party, a person known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
]\Ir. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reason — reasons.
INIr. Jackson. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, you testified yesterday and then in part
today concerning your having been on the campus of Michigan
148 COMJVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
State College at East Lansing. Now, as I recall it, you spent the
major portion of 1 year there. Which vear was that?
Mr. Darling. 1939 to 1940— no; 1940 to 1941, I think it was.
Mr. Clardy. You started in the fall of 1940 and ended in the spring
of 1941 ?
Mr. Darlixg. 1941.
Mr. Clardy. Now, then, in the fall of 1941 you spent a couple of
months in the academic year commencing at that time; did you
not ?
Mr. Darling. In the fall of 1941 ?
Mr. Clardy. Yes.
Mr. Darling. At Michigan State ?
Mr. Clardy. Yes.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Clardy. Well, sir, suppose you tell me again
Mr. Darling. I
Mr. Clardy. So that you Avill not be tricked into anything. I have
been in touch with the college authorities since you testified yester-
day. I merely want to get the facts
Mr. Darling. As far as
Mr. Clardy (continuing). Straight about it.
Mr. Darling. As far as I remember, I taught there from the —
September, something like that, of 1940 to the summer of 1941.
Tliat would be at the end of the school year in June. -
Mv. Clardy. And you are sure that you didn't then reapply for
employment and were not hired for the ensuing academic year, only
to have it terminated after 2 months?
Now, think well before you answer. I have checked with the
authorities, and they tell me that is the fact, and I don't want you
to perjure yourself here or to say anything that you do not know.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't recollect anything like that.
Mr. Clardy. Do you recollect some unpleasantness that resulted in
the termination of your employment at the college?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. And was not that unpleasantness something to do with
3^our philosophy and your outlook generally, and they so advised you ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't know whether that would be an accurate
statement of it or not.
Mr. Clardy. Did it have anything to do with the fact that you had
a Communist background?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the previously
stated reasons.
Mr. Clardy. Do you recall the name of the dean of the faculty witli
whom you had your contacts, either in writing or verbally, w^hich led
to your severance from the college?
Mr. Darling. I can't recall the name of the dean.
Mr. Clardy. Did you have any contact with the college after you
left relative to the securing of something I mentioned earlier — a rec-
ommendation from the college?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 149
Mr. Darling. I — you mean did I write the college ?
Mr. Clardy. Or ask them in any way, either in writing or other-
wise?
Mr. Darling. Well, I don't recollect.
Mr. Clardy. You never received a recommendation from them, did
you?
Mr. Darling. Well, I don't know. If — if I applied for some posi-
tion and put them down as a reference, they would not reply to me.
Mr. Clardy. Don't you recall that they told you that they would
not recommend you to any other college ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't recollect that.
Mr. Clardy. All right.
Are you acquainted with or did you know at the time you were in
Michigan or at any other time somebody by the name of Bereniece
Baldwin ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reason.
Mr. Clardy. Have you read her testimony before this committee?
Mr. Velde. At this point, Mr. Clardy, let me state again, follow-
ing the suggestion of Mr. Jackson, that no inference is to be drawn
to the fact that this Bereniece— — -
Mr. Clardy. Oh. Bereniece Baldwin is the witness who testified, as
you know at Detroit.
Mr. Velde. No inference is to be drawn from this particular hear-
ing that she has anything
Mr. Clardy. Oh, no. The testimony, I think, Mr. Chairman,
shows conclusively that slie was not really a Communist and she
cooperated with the committee in the Detroit hearings.^
At any rate, did you have any acquaintance with her at any time ?
]\Ir. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned rea-
sons.
Mr. Clardy. Well, on to a different subject. We have used the word
"material" repeatedly in our questions and 3'ou have in your answers
when you gave any. I want to phrase it a little differently. "Ma-
terial" implies that there may be something reduced to writing or
something in tangible form. Now, have you ever passed on to any
representative of the Communist Party any material in any sense,
whether reduced to that form or not?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Forer. Is this material of a particular kind, or any material ?
Mr. Clardy. Any kind, to a Communist Party member or agency.
]Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons.
Mr. Clardy. Have you ever discussed with any representative of
the Communist Party the subject of the secret matters with which
you have been concerned in your research ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No.
1 Testimony of Berpniece "Toby" Baldwin, before the Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties, sitting in Detroit, Mich., on February 29, 1052, discloses that Mrs. Baldwin had
joined the Communist Party as an undercover a.£rent for the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation in order to assist the Government in obtaining information.
150 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardt. Have you discussed those matters with anybody?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned rea-
sons.
Mr. Clardy. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. A¥hen was it, Professor, that you said you last saw
Dr. Weinberg?
Mr. Darling. It was in 1952, 1 believe.
Mr. Scherer. How often have you seen Dr. Weinberg in the last
3 years ?
Mr. Darling. I think only once.
Mr. Scherer. Just once?
Mr. Darling. And that was
Mr. Scherer. Have you had any correspondence with Dr. Wein-
berg, either directly or indirectly ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the — well, just a moment.
(At this point ]\Ir. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. FoRER. Is this also in the last 3 years, or generally ?
Mr. Scherer. I didn't hear what you said. Counsel.
Mr. FoRER. Is your question limited to the last 3 years, the way
the one before it was ?
Mr. Scherer. Well, have you ever had any correspondence with
Dr. Weinberg?
Mr. Forer. And it is direct or indirect correspondence?
Mr. Scherer. Direct or indirect ; yes.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. What was the nature of that correspondence ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. All I recaU is the exchange of some friendly letters
occasionally.
Mr. Scherer. How well did you know Dr. Weinberg?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I knew him very well.
Mr. Scherer. Did you ever visit in his home ?
Mr. Darling. By home, now, you mean
Mr. Scherer. Well, in his home, his hotel room, wherever he lived.
Did you ever visit him socially, let's say?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. Well, over what period did those visitations take
place ?
Mr. Darling. Well, over a long period of time.
Mr. Scherer. Well, commencing when, Professor?
Mr. Darling. Well, when we were students at the University of
Wisconsin.
Mr. Scherer. And over how long a period did those visitations
continue?
Mr. Darling. Well, I—
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with INIr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Till the last time I saw him, which was last year.
Mr. Scherer. And what was the frequency of those contacts with
Dr. Weinberg ?
COlVIJVroNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 151
Mr. Darling. Oh
(At this point Mr. Darlino- conferred with Mr, Forer.)
Mr. ScHERER. Once a year ? Once a month ?
Mr. Darling, Oh, once every — I can't say — not any regular visita-
tions. That's the best way to answer it.
Mr. SciiERER. AVell, how often during a year ?
Mr. Darling. Well, I haven't visited with him since 1952.
Mr. ScHERER. Xow, have you had any telephone conversations with
him ?
Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Have you had any long-distance telephone conversa-
tions with him ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't think so.
Mr. ScHERER. You wouldn't say that you dichi't have any long-
distance telephone conversations?
Mr. Darling. Well, tliat's hard to — I don't think so.
Mr. ScHERER. You don't think so. You won't say, though, that
you didn't have any long-distance telephone conversations with him?
]\Ir. Velde. Well, I think the witness has answered that. He doesn't
recollect whether or not he knows.
Proceed.
Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. You testified. Professor, that you went into war work
at the beginning of the war in Detroit. What was the nature of your
employment there ?
Mr. Darling. I was a research physicist.
Mr. Walter. Working for whom ?
Mr. Darling. The United States Kubber Co.
]\Ir. Walter. United States Rubber. What type of work were you
doing ?
Mr. Darling. Development work.
Mr, Walter. Development of what?
Mr. Darling. Oh, all kinds of things with regard to rubber proc-
essinjr, and
to'
J\Ir. Walter. Havinff-
Mr. Darling. The physics of rubber.
Mr. Wali-er. Having to do with the war effort?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Yes ; it was with respect to the war effort.
INIr. Walter. Did you ever discuss the type of work that you were
doing with United States Rubber Co. with any unauthorized persons
in Detroit ?
(At this point ]\Ir. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. There was no question of whether the work was au-
thorized or unauthorized. It was not secret work.
Mr. Walter. Did you ever discuss the type of work you were per-
forming with anyone who was not connected with United States
Rubber Co.?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Maybe — maybe — maybe I did. People ask you where
you work and you tell them.
30172— 53— pt. 2 3
152 COaiMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Walter. Were those people who inquired as to the type of work
you were doing members of either the Midtown or the First Con-
gressional District Communist cells ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen-
tioned reasons.
Mr. Walter. Now, you testified you applied for clearance in order
to obtain employment on the Oak Eidge project, and that when the
clearance didn't come along quickly enough you took other employ-
ment. Were you ever cleared for confidential work?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Walter. Did you ever hear from your application for clearance
at Oak Eidge?
Mr. Darling. Finally ?
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Darling. No.
Mr. Walter. That's all.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Professor, you have stated that you were not cleared
ever, to your knowledge, that you are engaged now as a theoretical
physicist for a Navy project
Mr. Darling. No ; Air Force.
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Air Force 381. Are there other employees
of the Air Force there, to your knowledge, working in the same general
level of research who
Mr. Darling. Well, these — this project is a project in which just
physicists work — civilians.
Mr. Doyle. Yes ; I understand that, but I understood that it is an
Air Force project.
Mr. Darling. But they are not employees of the Air Force.
INIr. Doyle. I realize that, but you get two checks. You get one pay
eventually from the taxpayers of the country, whether you get it
direct from the Air Force or get it through some foundation; isn't
that true ?
Mr. Darling. I get a check from — I believe it's the research founda-
tion.
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Now, I want to renew my question again. Are there other physicists
working on this same project with you, who, to your knowledge, have
never been cleared, even though they are civilians ? I understand that.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I don't know.
]Mr. Doyle. You stated, in answer to questions by a couple of my
colleagues, that you had never communicated any classified material
to any persons known to you to be Communists, members of the Com-
munist Party. Do jou recall that ?
]Mr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Now, I want to ask you a little bit different question.
Have you ever communicated any classified material to any person
who was known to you to not l)e a Communist, but who would use that
classified material so that it would benefit the Communist Party in
our country ?
Mr. Darling. No.
. COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 153
Mr. Doyle. That is all.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. Professor, just to set the record straight, you were
in the University of Illinois from 1930 to 1936?
JNIr. Darling. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. While you were there, were you a member of the
Communist Party?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned rea-
sons.
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist cell at that university at
that time ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned
reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Now, you were at the University of Michigan from
1936 to 1938, as I read your testimony here. When you were in the
university, were you a member of the Communist Party ?
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. No. You're talking about Michigan?
Mr. Kearney. University of Michigan.
Mr. Clardy. At Ann Arbor.
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell on the campus
at the time you were there?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. When you were at Michigan State College, were you
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell on the campus
at that time ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. When you were at Pennsylvania State College, were
you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell on the campus
at that time while you were there ?
]\Ir. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. When you went to the University of Wisconsin in
1946, were you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. D^\rling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
My. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell on the campus
at that time ?
JNIr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. When you went to Yale University, were you a mem-
ber of the Communist Party ?
JNIr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell on the campus of
Yale University at that time ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question,
Mr. Kearney. Was there a Communist Party cell among the pro-
fessors there at that time ?
Mr. Darling. I refuse to ansAver that question for the same reasons.
154 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever contributed to any fund for tlie Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Darling, I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Kearney. That is all.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should
be
Mr. KuNziG. No reason.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Further under subpena?
Mr. Clardy. I have a couple of questions I w^ould like to ask.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. ]\Ir. Witness, would you tell us where you lived w^hilo
you were in Detroit, and also at Ann Arbor and also at East Lansing,
if you can recall?
Mr. Darling. Let's see — I can't recall where I lived in East Lansing,
and I
(At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Darling. Detroit — I lived at — I recall living at 7418 Sylvester.
Mr. Clardy. I didn't catch that street name.
Mr. Darling. Sylvester.
Mr. Clardy. Sylvester.
Do you know which Congressional District that is located in ?
Mr.'^DARLiNG. No ; I don't.
Mr, Clardy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde, The meeting Avill be in recess until 2 o'clock, at which
time we w-ill have another witness,
Mr, FoRER, Are you through with Mr. Darling ?
Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed,
(Thereupon, at 12 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at
2 p. m,, the same day.)
afternoon session
(At the hour of 2 : 10 p. m, of the same day, the proceedings were
resumed, Representatives Harold H, Velde (chairman). Kit Clardy,
Gordon H. Scherer (appearance noted in transcript), Francis E.
Walter, Clyde Doyle, and James B, Frazier, Jr., being present.)
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point there is a quorum
of the committee present, consisting of Mr. Clardy, Mr. Walter, Mr.
Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and the chairman for the purposes of this hearing.
Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Douglas, will you please stand and be sworn ?
Mr. Velde, Will you raise your right hand ?
In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do you
solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Douglas. I do.
Mr. Kunzig. W^ill 3'ou please state your full name and present
address ?
TESTIMONY OF DOROTHY W. DOUGLAS, ACCOMPANIED BY HEE
COUNSEL, EPHRAIM LONDON
Mrs. Douglas. Dorothy W. Douglas, and my permanent address
is Northampton, Mass., 54 Prospect Street.
Mr. Kunzig. When and where were you born ?
Mrs. Douglas. New York City, May 1, 1890.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATIOX (EDUCATION) 155
Mr. Chairman, may I make an extremely brief introductory state-
ment of not more than 150 words, I believe, as a matter of courtesy?
Mr. Velde. Will j'ou repeat the statement? I am sorry, I did not
hear it.
JNlrs. Douglas. May I make a very brief introductory statement of,
I believe, not more than 150 words? I request this as a matter of per-
sonal courtesy.
Mr. Velde. If you will testif}^ first, the committee will be glad to
hear your statement.
Mrs. Douglas. Sir, this statement refers not only to myself, but to
a Member of the Senate. I think as a matter of courtesy, for his pro-
tection, this statement should be permitted to me at the outset.
]Mr. Velde. We will receive the statement after you have testified
for the record. Proceed, Mr. Counsel ?
Mrs. Douglas. Will I have assurance that this statement will be
printed, sir?
Mr. Velde. No ; we cannot give you that assurance, Mrs. Douglas.
We can assure you that it will be received into the records of the
committee.
Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Douglas, we have no intention of going into any
relationship matters here at all, with any Member of the Congress.
Mrs. Douglas, what is your current employment?
Mrs. Douglas. None, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Will you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mrs. Douglas. Yes. I attended Bryn Mawr College, graduating in
1912. I took my master's degree and my doctor's degree from Colum-
bia University. I did a little graduate work also at Radcliffe, but
that is the substance of it.
]\Ir. KuxziG. Would you kindly state for the committee a brief
resume of your employment background, such as it may have been?
(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at
this time.)
Mrs. Douglas. Yes, sir. Well, for the bulk of my academic career,
which has been my chief occupation, I have been occupied at Smith
College, Northampton, Mass. Do you wish further details?
Mr. KuNziG. In what capacity.
Mrs. Douglas. Going up from the beginning as a reader and in-
structor to the position of full professor.
JSIr. KuNziG. Wliat is your present position ? None ?
Mrs. Douglas. None.
Mr. KuxziG. You are no longer connected with Smith College?
Mrs. Douglas. No, sir.
Mr. KuxziG. 1 would just like to go back for a moment. I neglected
to ask counsel if he will kindly identify himself for the record.
jNIr. LoxDox. Ephraim London. The address is 150 Broadway, New
York City.
ISIr. KuxziG. Thank you very much. I am sorry to interrupt.
Will you now tell whether j^ou have ever been a member of the
Communist Party.
Mrs. Douglas. Sir, I refuse to answer that question under the privi-
lege accorded me under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, which
protects me against anything that might lead to possible self-incrimi-
nation.
156 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, on February 25 in 1953, Prof. Robert G.
Davis testified as follows concerning your membership in the Com-
munist Party :
I will read that to you and then ask you whether you wish to affirm
or deny this testimony.
The testimony is as follows :
Q. Were you acquainted with Dorothy W. Douglas?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Q. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with her?
A. I have known lier as a teacher at Smith, but I also knew her in the Ameri-
can Federation of Teachers before I came to Smith, and I knew her as a Com-
munist in that federation, both through contact in caucuses in Massachusetts
and also at the national convention.
And then further on page 62, the testimony went as follows :
Q. Did you attend any caucus meetings —
that is Communist Party meetings —
at that district
A. Of
Then the question was again :
Q. Convention?
A. Of Massachusetts?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes ; I think I must have attended at least one. -That is why I remember
the presence of Dorothy Douglas and Hulda McGarvey.
The question to you : Do you wish to affirm or deny this testi-
mony ?
Mrs. Douglas. Under the same privilege, sir, I refuse to answer.
Mr. KuNziG. All right. Do you know Katherine Lumpkin?
Mrs. Douglas. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know her to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Douglas. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment's pro-
tection.
Mr. KuNziG. Is she a close personal friend of yours ?
Mrs. Douglas. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Hulda McGarvey Flynn ?
Mrs. Douglas. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know her to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Douglas, I refuse to answer under the same privilege.
Mr. KuNziG. Is she a close personal friend of yours ?
Mrs. Douglas. No.
Mr. KuNziG. During your membership in the Communist Party
did you at any time contribute any sum or sums for the support of
said organization ?
Mrs. Douglas. Obviously I claim my privilege at such a question.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you maintain an account at the Chemical Bank
located at 74th and Madison Avenue, New York City?
Mrs. Douglas. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever maintain such an account ?
]\frs. Douglas. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Can you tell us, if you remember, the years or the
period during which you maintained such an account.
Mrs. Douglas. No
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 157
]Mr. KuNziG. To the best of your knowledge.
Mrs. DouCxLAS. As to when I began. I ceased to do so quite some
years ago but I wouldn't want to guess the year.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you have had an account there between, say
1936 and 19:39?
INlrs. Douglas. Yes, sir ; to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. KuN"ziG. During the period from December 1936 to June 1939
did you use this account to furnish funds to one William Weiner, then
treasurer of the Communist Party of the United States?
Mrs. Douglas. Under the privilege accorded me of the fifth
amendment, I refuse to answer this question.
Mr. KuNZiG. What was your average monthly contribution to
the Commuinst Party during your membership in the said organi-
zation ?
Mrs. Douglas. Obviously that is a catch question, and I refuse to
answer under the privilege.
Mr. Kunzig. I will change the question. What was your average
monthly contribution to the Communist Party ? I will leave out the
portion as to the membership.
Mrs. Douglas. Same answer.
]Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever have any association wnth the World
Tourist Bureau, World Tourists, Inc.
Mrs. Douglas. I do not recall any such organization.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you contribute, or is it true that you contributed,
$600 per month to the Communist Party in 1936 to 1939, average
monthly contributions ?
Mrs. Douglas. Under the privilege accorded me under the fifth
amendment, I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kunzig. Do you know one Jacob Golos.
Mrs. Douglas. Never heard of him that I Imow of.
Mr. Kunzig. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Claedy. I have no questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Walter.
]\Ir. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Dotle. No questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
Mr. Velde. You mentioned previously that you had a statement
that you wanted to submit.
Mrs. Douglas. Yes, sir. Thank you for the courtesy.
Mr. Velde. Before we hear the statement, I want to make it clear
that you have refused to answer questions relating to your Com-
munist activities.
Mrs. Douglas. I am sorry, sir. Could I hear that a little louder.
Mr. Velde. And the committee will have to consider the statement
that you have in executive session before receiving it for the files.
Mr. London. May I say something? This statement
Mr. Velde. It has been the ruling that counsel has a right to confer
with the witness, but not to make any statements.
158 COMI^IUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
I^Irs. Douglas. May I confer with my counsel on this subject, as it
may involve a point of law of which I may be unaware?
Mr. Velde. Certainly.
(At this point Mrs. Doualas conferred with Mr. London.)
Mrs. Douglas. Mr. Chairman, I do not know to what extent the
Chair can be held accountable for his own statements, but you said
quite clearly when I asked for the privilege of submitting the state-
ment at the outset that you would receive it as soon as I had com-
i)leted evidence.
Mr. Velde. As long as you cooperate, Mrs. Douglas, and answer
the questions, then, of course, we would allow you to submit the
statement. But, of course, you have not cooperated m answering
the questions that have been asked you.
Mrs. Douglas. So far as I know, the Chair's statement was un-
conditional. Could I hear the record on that?
Mr. Clardy. May I ask her a question first, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Mrs. Douglas, does this statement have to do with
matters other than those covered by the questions that have been sub-
mitted to you ?
Mrs. Douglas. Mr. Chairman, this statement
Mr. Clardy. I am not the chairman.
Mrs. Douglas. Forgive me. Would you repeat the question, sir?
Mr. Clardy. I say, does your statement deal with matters not
touched upon by the questions that have been put to you this morning?
Mrs. Douglas. The statement deals with these questions both sub-
stantively and inferentially.
Mr. CL.VRDY. My question was, does it deal with matters other than
that? In other words, does it go beyond the subjects touched upon
in the questioning ?
Mrs. Douglas. Sir, I think that an introductory statement on the
part of a witness, requested in the terms in which my request was
couched, should be granted the courtesy of a public reading before this
committee.
Mr. Cu\RDY. Will you answer my question so that we may have
something to go on? I am seeking to find out what the statement is
about so far as the general subject matter.
Mrs. Douglas. It seems to me a very strange procedure on the part
of the committee of Congress that a thing of this length should be
excluded.
Mr. Clardy. Will you answer the question ?
Mrs. Douglas. Will you repeat the question ?
Mr. Clardy. I will rephrase it again. Does the subject covered by
your statement go beyond the subjects covered by the questions put
to you this afternoon? .
Mrs. Douglas. It does not go beyond the germane connnections ot
those questions, ~r ^ ^ ^i
Mr. Waltee. Mr. Chairman, just a moment. It has been the cus-
tom uniformly of this committee to accept statements which either
become a part of the record or do not, depending on action taken by
the committee in executive session. I see no reason why we should
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 159
depart from the rule, and I suggest that you permit the witness to file
the statement, and we can hereafter determine whether or not it will
be made a part of the record.
Mr. Clardy. That was going to be my suggestion.
Mr. Velde. It is so ordered. The committee is recessed.
(Thereupon, at 2: 20 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 10 a. m.,
Tuesday, March 17, 1953.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(Education— Part 2)
TUESDAY, MAKCH 17, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
PUBLIC hearing
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call,
at 10 : 48 a. m., in room 362, Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold
H. Velde (chairman), presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E.
Walter, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.
Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; and Thomas W.
Beale, Sr., chief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The meeting will come to order.
The reporter will let the record show as being present Mr. Kearney,
Mr, Scherer, ]Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and the chairman, a
quorum of the full committee.
Do you have a witness, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes. The first witness is Mrs. Hulda Rees Flynn.
Mr. Velde. Will you raise your right hand ?
In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do
you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Fltnn. I do.
Mr. Velde. Be seated, please.
Mr. KuNziG. "Wliat is your full name, please, Mrs. Flynn?
TESTIMONY OF HULDA REES FLYNN, ACCOMPANIED BY HER
COUNSEL, OLIVER S. ALLEN
Mrs. Fltnn. My full name is Hulda Rees Flynn.
Mr. KuNziG. Are you accompanied by counsel ?
Mrs. Fltnn. I am.
Mr. KuNziG. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Allen. Yes. My name is Oliver S. Allen. I am a member of
the Massachusetts bar, with offices at 6 Beacon Street, Boston.
Mr. KuNziG. What was your maiden name ?
Mrs. Fltnn. My maiden name was Hulda Jolinson Rees.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Yes.
161
162 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde, I want to ask the witness if she would have any ob-
jection to being photographed by the newsreel camera?
Mrs. Flynn. No ; none whatever.
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. I believe you just gave your maiden name.
Mrs. Flynn. That's right.
May I continue on that?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes.
Mrs. Flynn. My first husband's name was McGarvey, so that dur-
"ing the period of my first marriage and my widowhood I was known
as Hulda Eees McGarvey. Tlien on October 31, lOiS, I remarried
and my name is now Hulda Rees Flynn.
Mr. KuNZiG. What is your present occupation, Mrs. Flynn I
Mrs. Flynn. I am a housewife.
Mr. Kunzio. Will you- •
Mrs. Flynn. My professional training is in the field of psychology,
but I have 3 little girls, the eldest of whom is under 7, so that for the
past few years I haven't done nnich with my professional training.
Mr. Velde. May we have order, please ? It is very difficult to hear
in the room.
Mr. KuNzio. Will you state, please, for the committee what your
educational training has been?
Mrs. Flynn. I want to be sure I get the right dates.
I graduated from Smith College, receiving my A. B. in 1931, and
also received my A. M, from Smith College in 1933. My Ph. D. I
received from Columbia University in 1943.
Mr. Kunzig. I see.
Now, I believe we had completed that.
Had you completed your answer
Mrs. Flynn. Yes.
Mr, Kunzig. As to your educational background ?
Mrs. Flynn. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Would you tell the committee, please, what your rec-
ord of employment has been beginning with the receipt of your mas-
ter's degree in 1933?
Mrs. Flynn. Well, when I received my master's degree in 1933 I
was already a teaching assistant at Smith College, and in 19 — from
1933 to 1934 I remained a teaching assistant in the department of
psychology. From 1934 to 1937 I was an instructor in the depart-
ment at Smith College. From 1937 to 1939 I was an instructor in
psychology at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, and then I
went back to Smith after my first husband's death and was an instruc-
tor in psychology.
Mr. Kunzig. Just a minute.
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in recess for 5 minutes.
(Thereupon, at 10: 53 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 10: 58 a. m.)
(The hearing reconvened at 10 : 57 a. m.)
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kunzig. Mrs. Flynn, would you continue with your record of
employment?
I believe vou were down to Mount Holyoke College between 1937
and 1939.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 163
Mrs. Flyxn. I was instructor in psychology at Mount Holyoke
College between 1937 and 1939. My first husband died in 1938 and
1 returned to Smith College and was an instructor there between
1939 and 1940. Then I was promoted and was an assistant professor
of psychology at Smith College from 1940 to 1942. However, I should
explain that"^my last actual teaching at the college was in June of
1941, since I took the second year of my appointment as a leave of
absence and went to Columbia to study for my degree.
Mr. KuNZiG. How long did you remain at Columbia?
Mrs. Flynn. I took my degree in 1943.
Mr. KuxziG. Were you a member of any Comnuniist Party cells
at any of the colleges you have just mentioned?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline to answer that question upon the ground
that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kearney. Well, if you were not a member of a Communist cell,
would you so state?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline to answer that ((uestion upon the ground
that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kearney. You mean to state that if you were not a member of
a Communist Party cell might incriminate you?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline to answer that question upon the ground
that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. KuNziG. Were there anj^ Communist Party cells at these
colleges ?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline to answer that question upon the ground
that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Walter. We could probably save a lot of time if you just
merely decline to answer, or refuse to answer, for the reasons stated
a moment ago.
]\Ir. Allen. Well, to clarify that, may it be understood by the com-
mittee where the witness hereafter refuses to answer, if she does, it is
upon the ground the answer might tend to incriminate her, claiming
her riglits under the fifth amendment of the United States
Constitution?
Will that be understood ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, that will be understood.
Mr. KuNziG. That is understood.
Mrs. Flynn, after you received your doctor's degree at Columbia in
1943, how were 3^ou employed then?
( At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. On the same grounds ?
Mrs. Flynn. On the same grounds.
Mr. KuxziG. Now, while at Columbia did you have any employ-
ment of any kind ?
You understand that we are only asking about your employment.
We are not going into any question of your beliefs.
(At this point ]Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Ki NziG. I'm referring onh^ to where you worked. Will you
tell the committee where you worked during those years?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. Did you work during those years?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
164 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mrs. Fltnn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. "Well, I'm going to take them one by one.
"Will you tell the committee how you were employed in 1944?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. "Will you tell them how you were employed in 1945?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. How were yon emploj^'ed in 1946 ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, when you testified previously before this com-
mittee ^ you said that in 194G you were unemployed and you were a
housewife.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Allen. "What's the question ?
Mr. KuNziG. The question is: Is she changing that testimony?
Are you changing that testimonj'
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. KuNziG. Or do you wish to confirm what you testified to before?
(At this point INIrs. Flynn continued to confer with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I testified before that I was a housewife.
Mr. KuNziG. And is that a correct answer "
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. KuNziG. In 1946?
Mrs. Flynn. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, in 1947 how were you employed ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
]\Ir. KuNziG. 1948 ?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, were you employed during these years, Mrs.
Flynn, working as an agent for the Communist Party?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
(At this point the witness laughed aloud.)
Mr. Walter. What is so funny about that ?
It seems shocking to me rather than funny.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
]\Ir. KuNziG. Yes, Mr. Congressman.
What is your employment at the present time?
Mrs. Flynn. I am a housewife.
Mr. KuNziG. What is your residence at the present time, Mrs.
Flynn?
Mrs. Flynn. 4831 Saint Elmo — that is E-l-m-o — Avenue, Bethesda,
Md.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
INIr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time between 1943 and the present time?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
* Executive testimony, not released by the committee.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 165
Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time ?
JMrs. Flynn. I decline.
JNIr. KuNziG. What is your husband's name ?
Mrs. Flynn. John P. Flynn.
Mr. KuNziG. Is your husband employed at the present time?
Mrs. Flynn. He is.
ISTr. KuNziG. What is the nature of that employment, ]Mrs. Flvnn?
Mrs. Flynn. He is a psychologist, and he's employed as a ciAalian
scientist by the Naval Medical Eesearch Institute in Bethesda, Md.
Mr. KuNziG. How long has he been employed there, as far as you
can remember ?
]Mrs. Flynn. To the best of my knowledge, his appointment papers
read April 1, 1946.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, a witness by the name of Herbert Philbrick testi-
fied before this committee in 1951 as follows.
(Kepresentative Francis E. Walter left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. KuNziG. I am going to read you the testimony and then ask
you whether you will affirm or deny the testimony.
Mr. I'HiLBRicK. And we were trained in turn to become instructors in Marxism.
I then became educational director for tlie Eiglitli Congressional District in
Massachusetts. l"be Eighth Congressional District included Maiden, Melrose,
Everett, a part of Somerville, Wakefield, and a part of Stoneham. As such, I
went from cell to cell and branch to branch, either leading educational dis-
cussions myself or many times arranging for State functionaries, functionaries
from the tStaie office, to come out to the branches and speak.
The great difference between our teaching in this period as against our
teaching before was that now the party taught that capitalism had to be
destroyed absolutely in order to establish communism, that it could not be
done by peaceful means or by legislation, but it could be done and accomplished
only through a violent revolution; and we were taught quite specifically that
there was no other way to establish communism in this country, and of course,
in order to teach that we used all the usual Marxist textbooks and manuals,
starting right in with the book. Value, Price, and Profit, which was usually
the beginner, then The Theory of Leninism, by Stalin, Capitalism, by Karl
Marx, and History of the Communist Party. That was used as a textbooJi in
my quarters.
Then, of course, the two most important books so far as teaching the absolute
necessity of revolution were, first, Imperialism— The Highest Stage of Capital-
ism and State and Revolution. Those two were the most important textbooks
used to teach why it was impossible for communism to be established in any other
way except through a violent revolution against the existing state government.
Tlien the question was asked:
You spoke of having attended a special school, a secret school, designed only
for those in whom the Communist Party reposed great trust. Who were the
instructors in that school?
Mr. Philbkick. Fanny Hartman.
Question. Will you spell the last name?
Mr. Philbrick. Fanny Hartman — H-a-r-t-m-a-n. She was more or less the
coordinator for the school. She taught the first session, I remember, and she
taught some of the subsequent sessions.
A man named Sam, not identified by any other name, was another one of
the instructors, and a woman party member by the name of Hulda. Hulda was
a third of our instructors. I was later able to identify her as Hulda McGarvey,
who was aflSliated with the Samuel Adams School.
Do you care to affirm or deny that testimony ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
166 COM]VroNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. The period covered, for the record, by that testimony
was generally between 194:4 and 1945.
Were you at any time an associate professor or instructor or in any
way affiliated with the Samuel Adams School?
Mrs. Flyxn. I decline.
Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Flynn, did you at any time acquire a corporate
interest in the way of ownership of stock in WQQW Radio Station
in Washinfrton, D. C. ?
Mrs. Flyxn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. Isn't that a matter of public record ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. KuNziG. The question was : Isn't that a matter of public record?
Mrs. Flynn. I don't know.
Mr. Kearney. Isn't ownership of that stock a matter of public
record ?
Mrs. Flyx^n. I don't know.
Mr. KuNziG. You feel that answering as to whether you own stock
in this radio station would incriminate you?
Mrs. Flynx^. I decline.
Mr. KuxziG. Do you know Dorothy Douglas, who testified before
this committee just a day or so ago?
( At this point Mrs. Flymi conferred with Mr. Allen. )
Mrs. Flyx'n. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, Mrs. Douglas on March 13, 1953, appear-
ing before this committee, when asked the question: "Do you know
Hulda McGarvey Flynn?" answered, "Yes."
(At this point'Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. KuNziG. Do you still say you decline to answer whether you
know Mrs. Douglas?
(At this point ]Mrs. Flynn continued to confer with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline ; yes.
Mr. Kearney. Is that on the grounds that it might incriminate you ?
Mrs. Flynn. That's correct.
Mr. Allen. Well, that is understood by the committee, is it not?
Mr. Kearney. Why is an acquaintanceship or friendship with Mrs.
Douglas a ground of incrimination in your own mind?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flyxx. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know a K-itherine Lumpkin ?
Mrs. Flyx^n. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know a Robert Gorham Davis ?
Mrs. Flyxn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Robert Gorham Davis on February 25, 1953,
testified before this committee as follows
Mr. Scherer. That is Professor Davis?
INIr. KuxziG. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sciierer. Professor Davis from Smith
Mr. KuNziG. Tliat is correct.
Mr. SciiERER. Who testified ?
Mr. KuNziG. He testified as follows — and I will read you the tesn-
mony and ask you wliether you ailirui or deny :
Question. Were you acquainted with Hulda McGarvey?
Mr. Davis. Yes; T Imd wet her nt Smith at the time slie was teacliing there,
and I met her at caucuses of the New England representatives meeting in Boston.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 167
Question. Now, when you say "caucus"^ — caucus of what?
Mr. Davis. Of Communist Party members within tlie State Federation of
Teachers.
Question. And you met her as a member of that caucus?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Question. When was that?
Professor Davis. I can only fix it within the years of my party membership.
I can't fix the exact date.
Question. Did I understand you to state she was employed in some capacity
at SniitliV
Professor Davis. At that time.
Question. How long was she employed at Smith College?
Professor Davis. I don't know because she had left when I went there myself
to teach.
Question. Oh, she was not there when you were there as a teacher?
Mr. Davis. No.
Question. Do you know whether she held any position in the Teachers' Union?
Professor Davis. She represented in some capacity the local at Smith.
Question. Does that local still exist at Smith College?
Professor Davis. No ; I think it went out of business about 2 years ago.
Do you care to affirm or deny that testimony by Professor Davis
before this committee ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs, Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. You decline to answer on the grounds of incrimina-
tion ?
Mrs. Flyxx. That is correct.
JNIr. Allex. Well, to make it abundantly clear, Mr. Chairman
Mr. KuxziG. Yes.
Mr. Allex. Is it not understood at all times when the witness has
refused to answer it is upon the ground of claiming her rights under
the fifth amendment of the U. S. Constitution ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Kearxey. What do you
Mr. Allen. Are we clear upon that?
Mr. Velde. Yes, Mr. Counsel ; that is understood by the committee.
Mr. Allen. Because there
Mr. Kearxey. When you say "the U. S. Constitution," I presume
you mean the United States Constitution?
Mr. Allex^ I do, indeed.
Mr. KrxziG. Xow, I shall read you another portion of the same
testimony by Professor Davis before this committee :
Question. Now. let us return to the second of the national conventions which
you attended and at which you said there was a caucus of tlie Communist Party
members. Will you advise the committee what the result of the caucus was
that was had?
Professor Davis. No; I'm sorry to say I cannot, because it was a matter of
very complex union affairs, and after this period of time I simply can't recon-
struct it in any meaningful way. It was not a matter of broad national policy,
but of factional controversies within the union.
Question. Well, will you give us. please, the names of persons who attended
that caucus and whose names you have not already given us?
Professor Davis. No ; I don't remember any others. Again, we were not
introduced to them, you see. They preserved the secrecy of names as much as
possible.
Question. You referred to your local at Harvard being a member of the
district?
Professor Davis. Yes.
Question. How many .schools were represented in that district organization?
30172— 53— pt. 2- 4
168 COMMUNIST METHODS OF mFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Professor Davis. Well, both the colleges and the public schools were included.
A very large number were because there were public school locals in at least
8 or 10 of the local schools in Massachusetts. The college representation was
much smaller, but I suppose at least six colleges were represented — not by
Communist Party members; I'm speaking now of the Teachers' Union itself
and the Massachusetts Federation of Teachers.
Question. Well, what were the names of the colleges which were affiliated with
or a part of that district?
Professor Davis. Smith was ; Simmons College. I think there probably was
a Wellesley local. I can't be sure. I think Tufts at times may have had rep-
resentation. Amherst, I think, may have.
Question. I think we should make the record clear they weren't representing
those schools there at that meeting, were they?
Professor Davis. No ; I am not speaking now of Communists, but simply of
the locals, college locals who were affiliated with the National Federation of
Teachers.
Question. Did each of them, however, have a Communist cell within their
representation?
Professor Davis. Not so far as I know. Smith is the only one I can recall
that did have.
Question. Did you attend any caucus meetings of that district convention?
Professor Davis. Of Massachusetts?
Question. Yes.
Professor Davis. Yes; I think I must have attended at least one. That is
why I remember the presence of Dorothy Douglas and Hulda McGarvey.
Do you care to affirm or deny that testimony ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. Is the name of that school in Massachusetts the
Samuel Adams School or the Samuel Adams Labor School?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. I believe you said your husband is employed by the
Navy in a civilian capacity ; is that correct ?
Mrs. Flynn. That's right.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, have you written any magazine or literary
articles on any subject in connection with your teaching at any of
the colleges which you have related which have been published?
(At tliis point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I published my master's thesis at Smith College, which
I wrote in 1933, but I believe it wasn't published until 1935; and I
published 1 or 2 other articles on psychological problems.
Mr. KuNziG. What was the subject of your master's thesis?
Mrs. Flynn. It was called, I think — it's hard to recall — an in-
vestigation of the effects of mental sets upon the solution of anagrams.
Mr. KuNziG. I think you remember very well.
Mrs. Flynn. Well, that may not be accurate.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Flynn, have you written any other material
on any other subjects that have been published?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you written for the Communist Party at any
time or for Communist Party publications?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you accepted any money at any time from the
Communist Party?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 169
Mr. KuNziG. Have you assisted in raising funds at any time for
tlie Communist Party ?
Mrs. Flyxn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. May I interrupt for a mil. ute, Counsel ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. A few minutes ago Avlien I asked you whether the
name of that school in Massachusetts was the Samuel Adams School
or the Samuel Adams Labor School you declined to answer on the
grounds that it might incriminate you ; is that correct ^
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flyxn. Yes; I did.
(Representative Francis E. Walter reentered the hearing room at
this point.)
Mr. Kearney. Will you tell me why the answering of that question
would incriminate you in any manner?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
jNIr. Kearney. Well, Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be
directed to answer that question.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mv. Velde. Yes. The Chair feels that the answer to that question
could not possibly, in any manner, incriminate you, and I so direct
you to answer that question.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. And I decline.
(Eepresentative James B. Frazier, Jr., left the hearing room at
this point.)
Mr. KuNziG. Since you married Mr. Flynn, have you either for
pay or without compensation been engaged in any lecture or teaching
any units or groups of people, large or small ?
(At tliis point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Last year — that would be in 1951-52 — I gave an ex-
tension course in psychology, elementary psychology, for George
Wasliington University.
Mr. KuNziG. In Washington, D. C. ?
Mrs. Flynn. No; the course itself was in Bethesda, but the uni-
versity is in Washington.
Mr, KuNziG. Yes.
May I ask how you obtained that position or that teaching respon-
sibility?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Somebody telephoned me and asked me would I teach.
Mr. KuNziG, And who was it that telephoned you to ask you to
teach ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. It was someone at the university, but I don't recall
who — whom.
Mr. KuNziG. Was it one of the top people ?
Mrs. Flynn. I think so, in the extension field.
Mr. KuNziG. In the extension field.
Are you now on the list of that university, subject to call for further
lecturing?
(At tliis point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
]Mrs, Flynn. I don't know.
170 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Were there any other instances beyond and beside this
one you just mentioned at George Washington where you lectured
or spoke to groups ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. KuNziG. How long did that course at George Washington last?
Mrs. Flynn. Fifteen weeks.
Mr. KuNZiG. Were you compensated for it ?
Mrs. Flynn. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. From whom did you receive the compensation?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Check from the university — three checks, to be exact.
Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. I will pass for the time being.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. SciiERER. How long have you been married to Mr. Flynn?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I was married to Mr. Flynn on October 31, 1945.
Mr. S('HERER. How long prior to October 31, 1945, did you know
him. Professor '.
Mrs. PYynn. I'm trying to recall the year I first met him. We were
fellow gi-aduate students at Columbia University.
Mr. 8CHERER. Approximately \
Mrs. PYynn. Approximately — it would be the summer, I think,
of 1940.
Mr. Scherer. And would you mind telling me again in what ca-
pacity he is employed by the Navy '{
Mrs. Flynn. He is a psychologist, and he's employed as a scientist,
as a psychologist.
Mr. Scherer. And where?
]\Irs. Flynn. At the Naval Medical Research Institute. That's out
at the Medical Center in Bethesda.
Mr. Scherer. Research Institute?
Mrs. Flynn. That's rio-ht.
Mr. Scherer. And what is the nature of his work out there?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I don't really know nmch about it. He's a psycliolo-
gist and he's a very good statistician, and he gives — I mean "he just
works there. 1 don't know exactly what he does.
Mr. Scherer. And he has been "with the Navy how long ?
Mrs. Flynn. Since— I believe that it's April 1, 1946.
Mr. Scherer. Of course, then he receives his compensation directly
from the Navy Department of the Government of the United States.
(At this point INIrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. ScHEiiER. Now, is he a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. ScHEREK. Does he do anything else other than the occupation
which you have just described?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Scherer. Does he have any other activity from which he re-
ceives compensation, other than the activity which you just described?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Not that I know of.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 171
Mr. ScHEREK. That is all.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mv. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Have you in your professional relationships with any
of the colleges, or in connection therewith, used any name other than
the two you have given us?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred w^th Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Allex. Might that question be repeated, Mr. Congressman?
Mr. Doyle. Well, I can simplify it by saying : Have you gone under
any other name than the tw^o you have given us here ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Doyle. Do you now go under any other name for any purpose
other than your married name?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. No.
Mr. Doyle. How long since you have ?
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Doyle. Have you written any pamphlets or booklets that nave
been printed with your permission and consent under any other than
your legal name ?
(At this point Mrs. Flj^nn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. If you have written any booklets or pamphlets for the
Communist Party, or for its benefit, under any other name than your
own, were jon paid for it ?
Mrs. Fly'nn. I decline. .
Mr. Doyle. Have you traveled abroad
(At this point Mrs, Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. DoY^LE. To foreign countries?
Mrs. Fly'nn. No, sir.
Mr. Doyle. That is all at this time. Mr. Chairman.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Kearney. I understood from your previous testimony that
you refused to testif}^ as to previous membership in the Conmiunist
Party.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Fly'nn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. Have you attended any Communist Party meetings
since you have taken up residence at Bethesda?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Fly'nn. I decline.
Mr. Kearney. I thought I heard you say a few minutes ago : "What
are they trying to do to me?" Is that correct?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I did say that to my attorney.
Mr. Kearney. Well, I know you spoke loud enough so that the
committee members could hear it; is that correct?
Mrs. Flynn. If you heard it, certainly.
Mr. Kearney. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mrs. Flynn, if you did ask, "What are they trying to
do to me?" I would like to answer that question.
172 COISIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
We are trying to obtain information from you relative to Commu-
nist and other subversive propaganda activities in this country so that
we might perform the function that is imposed upon us by Congress.
It is to investigate these things and report to the Congress and to the
people of your activities.
Now, you could be of great assistance to this committee, and the
Chair would ask you again if you still refuse to tell us about any
Communist or other subversive activities
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Velde. In which you have engaged or know about ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn continued to confer with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline to answer that question ; and, as I sit here as
a former college professor
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. I would like the Chair to direct the witness to answer
the questions and not make a speech.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Velde. Is this in the nature of an answer, Mrs. Flynn?
Mrs. Flynn. It's my answer.
Mr. Kearney. Well, is it a direct answer to the question or is it an
attempt to make a speech ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Kearney. Well, I notice the witness shrugs her shoulders.
What is it?
Mrs. Flynn. I consider it a direct answer to the question ; yes.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mrs. Flynn.
Mrs. Flynn. I'm not now a teacher. I'm not a college professor.
But I feel that what this committee is doing to academic freedom on
the campuses where I
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
Mrs. Flynn. Have been employed
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walter. Well, let her go.
Mr. Kearney. All right.
Mrs. Flynn. And to the clergy is perhaps the most dangerous thing
in American life.
I knoAv that the mere fact that I have been called here to appear
before this committe can only serve to frighten, to intimidate people
who are still employed at the colleges at which I have taught.
Mr. Walter. Do you think that applies •
Mr. Kearney. Even though they refuse to answer as to whether they
are members of the Communist Party today or in the past?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I feel
Mr. Kearney. Do you believe this committee is interfering with
your so-called academic freedom when they ask you concerning your
membership in the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Flynn. I certainly do.
Mr. Kearney. I think that gives the attitude of the witness in her
answers.
Mr. Velde. Yes. I agree with the gentleman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one more question ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 173
Mr. Doyle. Madam, may I ask you this question, please ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. I refer to Public Law 831 of the 81st Congress, in sec-
tion 2 of which the United States Congress made this brief
(At this point Mrs. Flynn continued to confer with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle, Will you listen to me, please?
Mrs. Flynn. Yes, sir. Excuse me. I didn't mean to be discourteous.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I will begin over again.
I call your attention to Public Law 831, passed by the 81st Con-
gress, 2d session, H. R. 9490, in which this declaration ist made by the
United States Congress:
Sec. 2. As a result of evidence adduced before various committees of the
Senate and the House of Representatives, the Congress herein finds that :
(1) There exists a world Communist movement, which, in its origin, its de-
velopment, and as presently practiced is a worldwide revolutionary movement,
whose purpose is, by treachery, to seek infiltration into other groups, govern-
mental and otherwise, by espionage, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means
deemed necessary to establish a totalitarian Communist dictatorship in the
countries throughout the world through the medium of a worldwide Communist
organization.
Do you agree with that declaration by our Congress?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I don't really believe that describes the situation.
Mr. Doyle. Well, don't you know that the American Communist
Party is part of a world conspiracy to overthrow the American con-
stitutional form of government by force and violence? You believe
that, don't you ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I don't really have any particular opinion upon
that
Mr. Doyle. Bee:
■'to
Mrs. Flynn. No comment.
Mr. Doyle. I beg your pardon.
Mrs. Flynn. I have no considered opinion on that ; no comment.
Mr. Kearney. Will the gentleman yield for a question there?
Mr. Doyle. If you have no considered opinion upon it, why did you
answer just a moment ago and say you didn't believe this declaration
by Congress represented the situation?
(At tliis point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. AMiat I really feel is that the Red scare in this country
is greatly exaggerated, and that the kind of thing that's happening to
civil liberties as the result of the activity of this committee, and other
committees, is a much more dangerous threat to our freedoms.
If I may quote a great man from Illinois : "To strike at the free-
dom of the mind with the fist of patriotism is an old and ugly
subtlety."
Air. Kearney. Will the gentleman yield there?
Mr. Doyle. Well, evidently you do have considered opinion.
Mrs. Flynn. Well, I'm not a lawyer.
Mr. Doyle. I think your answer would reveal very clearly to the
American people that you have a very considered opinion.
Mr. Kearney. Will the gentleman yield for a question there ?
(At tliis point Mrs. Flymi conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. That is all I care to ask.
174 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kearxey. That opinion tliat you just expressed is the unani-
mous opinion of members of the Communist Party, isn't it?
Mrs. Flynn. Yon mean that quotation I just used?
Mr. Kearney. Xo ; no — the ]n'evious answer.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., reentered the hearing room
at this point.)
Mr. Kearney. Your belief about a Red scare. The stenographer
can read your exact remarks.
Mrs. Flynn. I just don't know
Mr. Allen. "What is the question ?
Mrs. Flynn. I just don't understand the question.
Mr. Kearney. I asked her if that was not the belief of members of
the Communist Party,
Mrs. Flynn. That I don't know.
Mr. Allen. What belief, Mr. Congressman ?
Mr. Kearney. The answer the witness gave — and the stenographer
has her exact language there — something about a Red scare.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I don't know. I really don't know, but the quotation
that I used was from the words of the Democratic candidate for
President.
Mr. Kearney. You believe that members of the teaching profes-
sion who are members of the Communist Party should teach our youth
in public schools and colleges in the country today ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr." Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Yes; I do. I think their competence as teachers
should be judged on the basis of their actual teaching and their objec-
tivity and their success as teachers be judged by other teachers and by
the administration of the school or college with whom they work.
I don't think it's a question of a man's opinions, whether he is a
follower of Sigmund Freud or John Dewey or Karl Marx. I think
it's a question of how adequately he performs his function as a pro-
fessor or as a teacher.
Mr. Kearney. Would you send your children to school to be taught
by members of the Communist Party?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allien.)
Mrs. Flynn. Since you bring in the question of children — - —
Mr. Kearney. Yes
Mrs. Flynn, Yes,
Mr. Kearney, Assuming you have children.
Mrs. Flynn, I have; yes.
Mr. Kearney. If you had children.
Mrs. Flynn. I do have children. I have 3 children, 1 of them just
starting in school, and I certainly want those children to go to school
in an atmosphere where the teacher is not afraid to express an opinion
because at some later time — perhaps 5 years hence, or 10 years hence—
they might be called before a congressional committee to defend that
statement of opinion.
Mr, Kearney. That is what you mean by academic freedom?
Mrs. Flynn. By academic freedom, I mean the freedom to inquire
into the truth as the individual person sees it and pursues it, and I
mean the freedom to express opinion in a considered way, to put ideas
in the market place for deoate.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 175
Mr. Kearney. "Whether
Mrs. Flynn. It seems to me
Mr. Kearney. Whether or not
Mr. Allen. The witness hasn't finished, Mr. Congressman.
Mr. Kearney. I beg your pardon.
Mrs. Flynn. It seems to me our way has always been and should
continue to be the debating of ideas on the basis of the merit of the
ideas, not on the basis of their sponsorship.
When it is suggested that books, for example, be judged on the
basis of their authorship and not their content, this indeed seems to
me a de]:)arture from our American tradition.
Mr. Kearney. Whether it be inimical to the interests of the United
States or not ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. There can be nothing inimical to the interests of
the United States about freedom of the mind.
Mr. Scherer. Even if those ideas are taught today by a member of
the Communist Party
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Scherer, After all that has transpired and we are at war with
the Communist Party, do you think that is true?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferee! with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I think in the long run-
Mr. Scherer. Do you think a member of the Communist Party
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. Let her answer that.
Mrs. Flynn. I think in the long run the good ideas, the ideas that
have worked, will prevail and the bad ideas will lose.
Mr. Scherer. You didn't answer
Mr. Velde. Let's have a direct answer to the question, if you will,
please.
Mrs. Flynn. Would you repeat the question.
Mr. Scherer. You didn't answer my question, Mrs. Flynn. I said :
Whether those ideas are taught by a member of the Communist Party
or not ?
Mrs. Flynn. Whether they're taught by a member of the Com-
munist Party or the Republican Party.
Mr. Kearney. Have you ever read any of the statements of Mr.
Foster, the head of the Communist Party in this country ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question, if
I may
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. That I didn't ask the witness before.
You have testified, in your judgment, that what this committee is
doing is a dangerous thing to American life. Of course, I do recognize
the possibility of the abuse of the power of congressional inquiry, but
do you think it is dangerous to our way of life to inquire into the teach-
ings of people who, incidentally, are members of the teaching pro-
fession ?
(At this point ISIrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
ilrs. Flynn. I think the effect of what you are doing, bringing
teachers and ex-teachers in here to testify, is to frighten people
Mr. Walter. Well, do you think
176 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mrs. Flynn. All over the country.
I am sure that teachers now who have ever expressed an unorthodox
idea are quaking in their boots.
Mr. Walter. "Well, then I would like to reassure all of those people,
as of this minute, because this committee has not subpenaed nor is it
its intention to subpena anybody that we don't think is an expert in the
field of communism.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Walter. Now, we believe that you are an expert because we
believe you have been for a period of years a member of the Communist
Party.
We believe that. We have reason to believe it. We aren't making
any frivolous charges. We have reason to believe that many of the
witnesses — who, incidentally, are professors — have been active in the
Communist Party.
Now, we would like to know how they attempted to indoctrinate
young people who are in the period of their lives when they are sus-
ceptible to that kind of indoctrination, and we believe that you can
be of great help to us because we are of the opinion that you are an
expert in this field of communism.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. What is the question exactly ?
Mr. Walter. The question is : Do you believe that this inquiry is a
dangerous thing to American life ?
Mrs. Flynn. I do. I do because I think it frightens not just Com-
munists but any teacher who may have had any kind of an unorthodox
idea in the current atmosphere, you understand.
Now, I've had quite a bit of experience with teaching college stu-
dents ; and if you're really worried about indoctrinating them, let me
tell you here and now that the young people of this Nation are not
easily indoctrinated, if one wanted to do that, which a good teacher
doesn't want to do.
Mr. Walter. Particularly since Korea and the present activities of
the Communists in Russia ?
Mrs. Flynn. I think it's always true of young Americans., They
have open minds. They have eager minds. They want to learn.
Mr. Kearney. Is that a result of your own experience ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. Well, I taught for a good many years and I'm judg-
ing it on the basis of the young people I taught.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Madam, your reference a few minutes ago to teachers,
professors, teaching objectively in the classrooms — and I wish to
assure you, as a member of this committee — I'm in favor of that very
much
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. I certainly would not knowingly do anything to de-
prive American citizens freedom of speech, or thought, or worship ;
but, as I understand the Communist conspiracy that is abroad in the
world, both militarily in Korea, Indochina, in Indonesia and other
places, where I was just a few months ago for Congress, officially,
and the American Communist practice in this country, my belief is,
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 177
from the evidence that we have, that in these days a member of the
American Communist Party in the classroom has no freedom of
thought for himself.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. He can't teach freely because his own thinkino; is under
the domination and control of the Communist theories, procedures, and
the subversive Conununist conspiracy that is abroad in the world.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. In other words, I'm saying to you that, very sincerely,
as a member of this committee and as an American citizen, from the
evidence that I know that exists, there can be no freedom of teaching on
the i^art of a professor in college or high schools in America these days
if he is truly a member of the American Communist Party.
Mrs. Flynn. Is that what you want me
Mr. Doyle. You talk about freedom in the classroom. How can
there be when a man owes his allegiance mentally primarily to
Moscow ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. I've read a great deal about this in the press in re-
cent weeks, and this
Mr. Doyle. Eead about what?
Mrs. Flynn. About the concept that a person is not free.
It seems to me that we should go back to the old-fashioned way
of judging people on the basis of their conduct, on the basis of how
they behave, and not on the — on drawing a conclusion from a premise
that he is not free.
Now, I can't speak for all teachers, but I know that in general the
average teacher feels it his primary duty to have a high loyalty to his
material and to teach the material he is teaching in the most detached
and objective way that he can in order to encourage young people to
think for themselves ; and I think you're underestimating American
young people when you think that they're easily swayed in one direc-
tion or another.
Mr. Doyle. No ; I assure you I don't appraise the American young
people as being easily swayed, but I do fight very vigorously against
placing American young people in classrooms with conspirators of
the American Communist Party
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. Because I know they have no freedom of thought to
teach.
Now, you, for instance — I beg your pardon in just being perfectly
frank with you — believing, as we do, that you were — whether you are
now or not — a member of the Communist Party, giving you credit for
being sincere in claiming your constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment of our United States Constitution, apparently believe that
it might incriminate you in some criminal relationship if you would
come honestly and frankly and tell this committee, "Yes, I was a mem-
ber of the American Communist Party at such-and-such a time, and I
taught so-and-so." You apparently believe that by admitting that
and helping us fulfill our official obligations that might incriminate
you.
Now, I want to say to you, frankly. How in God's world could
it possibly incriminate you if the American Communist Party is
178 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
not a criminal conspiracy to forcefully overtlirow our form of gov-
ernment ?
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
INIrs. Flynn. I decline.
Mr. Doyle. Of course you do. I knew you would.
Mr. Velde. We have had a
Mr. Kearney. Your thoughts on the teaching in the schools and
the colleges by members of the Communist Party, I'll say frankly,
don't agree with those of the majority of the professors that we have
had before this connnittee. They take the opposite view.
Mrs. Flynn. Well, I agree with Senator Taft.
Mr. Doyle. Well, you don't claim that Senator Taft agrees with
you, do you ?
Mrs. Flynn. No ; certainly not.
Mr. Doyle. I just want the record to
Mrs. Flynn. On this specific issue.
Mr. Doyle. Well, he doesn't agree with you on this specific issuo,
either, as I read his statement in the paper.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mr. Doyle. He doesn't go the limit to defend the American Com-
munist Party that you go to.
Mrs. Flynn. Well, now^, my understanding of what Senator Taft
said was that if he were responsible he would not fire a teacher merely
because he was a Communist, but he would judge him on the basis of
his classroom record and activity.
(At this point Mrs. Flynn conferred with Mr. Allen.)
Mrs. Flynn. And I agree with that.
Mr. Doyle. I guess we better let him speak for himself.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is there anything further?
We have had a call to the House for a quorum.
Is there any reason why this witness should not be excused?
If not, the witness is so excused and the connnittee will stand re-
cessed until 2 o'clock, at which time we will be in executive session.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 50 a. m., the hearing was recessed.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(Education— Part 2)
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18, 1953
United States House of REPRESENTATI^^s,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
W ashington^ D. G.
PUBLIC HEARING
The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess,
at 10 : 44 a. m., in Room 362, Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold
H. Velde (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Yelde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy,
Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, and James B.
Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted in transcript).
Start' members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Louis J. Rus-
sell, chief investigator; Ra])hael I. Nixon, director of research; and
Thomas W. Beale, Sr.. chief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The meeting will come to order.
Let the record show. Mr. Reporter, that pi'esent are Mr. Kearney,
Mr. Jackson, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, and
the chairman, a quorum of the full committee.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Glasser, will you please come forward?
Mr. Velde. Will you raise your right hand, please ?
Mr. Glasser. May I use this ^ again I
Mr. Velde. Certainly.
In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do you
solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Glasser. I do.
]Mr. KuxziG. Professor Glasser, are you accompanied by counsel?
TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM GLASSER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, LEONARD B. BOUDIN
Mr, Glasser. Yes ; I am, Mr. Kunzig.
Mr. KuNziG. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. BouDiN. Leonard B. Boudin — B-o-u-d-i-n — of New York City.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your address, sir?
Mr. BouDiN. 76 Beaver Street.
Mr. KuNziG. You may be seated or did you wish to stand ?
* Bible brought to hearing room by the witness.
179
180 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Glasser. I would like to start out standing up, anyway. I'll
probably want to sit down eventually.
Mr. KuNziG. All right.
Mr. BouDiN. May I address a question to the committee ?
Mr. Velde. You may.
]\Ir. Walter. Mr. Chairman, before any questions are addressed to
the committee, I would like to ask Mr. Glasser a question based on a
statement that apparently has been distributed prior to the meeting.
Mr. Glasser, you stated :
Professor Glasser has been called by the Velde committee after the most
unfair type of advance publicity tactics by Mr. Velde.
That, sir, is not true.
Mr. Glasser. Well,!
Mr. Walter. So that we start off on a firm basis
Mr. Glasser. I hold
Mr. Walter. Mr. Velde has never discussed this case publicly.
Mr. Glasser. Sir, may I reply to that ?
Mr. Walter. Now, you go down into the next paragraph
Mr. Glasser. Will I have an opportunity to reply to that, sir?
Mr. Walter. No; I am merely making a statement for the record
in view of the fact you have seen fit to try your case in the newspapers,
something that good lawyers never do.
Not content with persecuting Professor Glasser under the pretext of these
old discredited charges, Mr. Velde is attempting also to use Professor Glasser's
case as an opening wedge for mounting an apparatus —
a well-known Communist term —
whereby to terrorize college teachers on the lecture platform.
That sir, is also untrue and you are not being used as an opening
wedge. You are about the sixth of your type of professor who has
testified.
Mr. Glasser. I repudiate any innuendo, sir.
Mr. Walter. Well, all right. I am making that statement in or-
der to straighten out the record before we get started.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, there isn't any innuendo there. The
statement speaks for itself, as has just been stated by Mr. Walter.
Mr. BouDix. May I address the question to the committe I was
about to ?
Mr. Velde. It has been the rule of this committee — and this rule
will be followed — that the counsel may confer with his client at any
time during the proceedings, but not make any public statement.
]Mr. BouDiN. I see.
Then, may I address myself, my motion to the jurisdiction of the
committee ?
Mr. Velde. Be seated.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Glasser, what is your full name?
Mr. Glasskr. Mr. Kunzig, before I answer that, which I will, of
course, may I ask the chairman whether I may address motions in
my own right to the Chair ?
Mr. Velde. Certainly ; you may.
Mr. Glasser. May I do that now ?
Mr. A'elde. Certainlv.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 181
Mr. Glasser. I move respectfully that the hearing be deferred and —
first, on the following ground — and if this ground should turn out
not to be based on the actual factual situation as of this moment, then
I will withdraw the motion : The ground is that the committee mem-
bers have been furnished with copies of the statement, the documen-
tary history, of my Department of Justice matter, and, of course,
that statement was submitted in the hope that, upon examining it,
the committee members would see that there was no proper or good
reason for calling me.
I. therefore, inquire whether the committee members have examined
the statement — and if they have not, I will request a brief recess so
that any who have not examined the statement might do so — so that
if examination has already occurred by all the members present, I
then move that the probe be dropped on the strength of that state-
ment. If the statement has not yet been examined by all of the mem-
bers of the committee, I then move a recess until the committee
members may examine it.
Mr. Kearxey, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Glasser, if we grant the recess and the con-
ference, as you have asked, will you then answer all questions without
}'efusing to answer under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, or
any other privilege that you might have ?
^Ir. Glasser. Well, Mr. Velde, I honestly don't know yet what I'm
going to do today. Sir, that's the truth. My mind isn't made up.
I'm in the position of awaiting the unfolding of the proceedings.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
jNIr. Velde. We will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Thereupon, at 10: 50 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 10 : 55 a. m., the same day.)
(The hearing reconvened at 10 : 55 a. m.)
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel, with your questions.
Mr. Glasser. I want to thank the committee for taking the recess,
and I have further
Mr. Velde. Proceed with your questions.
Mr. Glasser. I may make no further motions ?
Mr. Velde. Not at this time.
Mr. Glasser. All right.
Mr. Velde. After the questions are put to you, if you decide
whether you are going to answer or not, then we will consider further
motions.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. My counsel reminds me the chairman stated that I
would be permitted to make any motions, and since the motions are
addressed to the jurisdiction of the committee
JNIr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Will you state your full name, Professor Glasser ?
Mr. Glasser. Abraham Glasser.
Mr. KuNziG. What is your address. Professor ?
]Mr. Glasser. My mailing address, the record may show, is 37 Wash-
ington Street, Newark.
I am not giving my home address. I think you want identification
of a mailing address.
Is that satisfactory ?
182 COMAIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]\Ir. KuxziG. I would like to ask for your home address, and I hereby
ask your home address.
( At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin. )
Mr. Glasser. I think the members of the committee can understand
the reason for a witness preferrinp; not to state his home address.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, this witness is the same as any other
American citizen and we are entitled to have his residence address, and
I ask that it be given,
JNIr. Glasser. Under the
Mr. Velde. Yes. The Chair decides or feels very definitely there is
no reason why you should refuse your home address, and I direct you
to answer that question. Professor.
]\Ir. Glasser. I will answer it, sir. I am going to answer it — under
protest, my reason being fear of harassment.
Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that he be instructed to
proceed with the answering and stop making speeches.
]Mr. AValter. Just a moment. In tliat "connection — the fear of
harassment, you said — do you think there is anybody in the community
in which you reside who hasn't read all the things you have said about
this hearing?
JNIr. Glasser. My home
Mr. Walter. How could this come as a surprise to any of your
neighbors when you, for days and weeks, have been making statements
and issuing all sorts of pamphlets to the newspapers, and everybody
that will look at them ?
jMr. (^LARDY. Before this committee had said a single word you were
fleeing before you were being pursued.
Mr. Glasser. I have been pursued for 12 years, sir.
Mv. Clardy. Not by this committee. If you were pursued by some-
body else, that is something that has nothing to do with us.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Glasser. My home address
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. Glasser. My home
Mr. KuNziG. Will you give your home address now?
Mr. Velde. I am sorry.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Velde, I think really there's not going to be nuich
excitement here today. Let's all just take it easy.
My home address is 59 Morton Street, New" York City — ]\I-o-r-t-o-n.
Mr. Kfxzk}. "\Anien and whei'e were you born ?
Mr. Glasser. I was born December 14, 1914, in New Brunswick, N. J.
Mr. KuNziG. Where were your parents born ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with INIr. Boudin. )
I\Ir. Glasser. My attorney suggests that I inquire as to the relevancy
of that questioiL
Mr. KuNziG. You are being asked the question, and I ask you now
to answer. Where were your parents born ?
]\rr. Glasser. I believe — this is under ]irotest now, on the ground
that the question is not relevant or pertinent — you see, both of my
parents were born in very small villages in what was at the time Latvia,
in Czarist Russia. The name of my mother's village. I b?lieve, was
Ahov — A-h-o-v — which is named after the River As, spelled
Mr. Clardy. How is that spelled?
COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 183
Mr. Glasser. With a capital letter A-
Mr. Clardy. Pardon — A-h-o-v, or b ? I didn't catch it.
Mr. Glasser. V, as in victory.
Mr, Clardy. Thank yon.
Mr. Glasser. My father, I think — he's been dead for many years,
and I didn't ascertain during the epoch of my life when I would have
had a precise curiosity about such things — my father, I believe, was
born in a little village even smaller than the one my mother was, called
Stracline — S-t-r-a-d-i-n-e — also in Latvia.
Mr. KuNziG. Were they naturalized citizens of the United States?
Mr. Glasser. Yes; I believe they were. I mean that's based on
their statements to me. They were naturalized, I'm quite sure. They
both voted for many years, and so on.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Professor, would you furnish the committee with
a i-esume of your educational background ?
Mr. Glasser. Yes. I attended public schools in two New Jersey
towns — New Brunswick and Perth Ambo}^ I attended junior high
school in Highland Park, N. J., which is a suburb or adjunct of New
Brunswick. I attended high school in New Brunswick, N. J., gradu-
ated in 1930, Then I attended Rutgers University, got the degree of
bachelor of arts in 1933.
Do 3^ou want scholarly distinctions, and so on, that occurred along
the way, or just the educational •
Mr. Walter. No.
Mr. Velde. That is not necessary.
Mr. Glasser. Then I attended the Princeton Graduate School from
1933 to December 193.5, where I had obtained in June of 1935 the
degree of master of arts and political science.
That concluded my formal education, except for this : That after I
came with the Government in Washington I had the good fortune to be
permitted by the bar examiners of the District of Columbia to take the
bar examination in the District on the strength of having read law
in the office of the Attorney General of the United States. My legal
education, in other words, was of the old-fashioned type. I read law
by myself.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you furnish the committee with a resume
of your occupational background, your employment?
Mr. Glasser. Usual boyhood jobs, clerk in delicatessen, et cetera,
shoveling snow; then — yes, I worked for many years as a clothing
salesman, part time, while I was going to school.
My first real full-time job was at the end of December 1935, when I
had an offer from the Government to come to AVashington. That was
when I left Princeton.
Oh, pardon me — in the Government, I worked in the Department of
Justice, under the title of special attorney assigned to research. I
was not at that time a member of the bar. , I was admitted to the bar
in February or March of 1939, still being in the Department of Justice,
at which time I was assigned to regular attorney's work. Maybe my
title was changed. I've forgotten now.
I resigned from the Department of Justice on October 31, 1941,
and transferred on November 1, 1941, to the OPA, in the Enforce-
ment Litigation Division, where I handled the preparatory work and
30172— 53— pt. 2 5
184 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
later the courtwork on major constitutional test litigation for the
OPA. . . . 1 ,1 T^
Mr. Walter. When was it you obtanied your position with the JJe-
partment of Justice as an attorney ?
Mr. Glasser. December 2G, 1935.
Mr. KuNZiG. Prior to
Mr. Walter. You had the classification of attorney
Mr. Glasser. I was , n , , ^
Mr. Walter. In 1935, despite the fact that you hadn't been ad-
mitted to the bar at that time
Mr. Glasser. That was
Mr. Walter. And you weren't admitted to the bar until 4 years
Mr. Glasser. That is right; yes. That was the practice at that
time, sir. As a matter of fact, the reason I •
Mr. Walter. Who was the Attorney General at that time ?
Mr. Glasser. Homer Cummings.
Mr. Walter. In 1939 ?
Mr. Glasser. In 1939, who was the Attorney General?
Somewhere in there Frank Murphy came in. I don't know just
when. No ; it was Jackson.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. ISIurphy first, then Jackson. Wasn't Murphy after
Cummings ? I think so.
Shall I proceed with the statement of employment ?
Mr. KuNZiG. I want to interrupt one moment here and ask at this
time : Were you, when you went with the Department of Justice, a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Glasser. Now
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. May I now make the motions I was going to make,
Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Velde. The question has been directed to you. You can answer
it or refuse to answer it.
Mr. Glasser. Well, I have to ask
Mr. Velde. And I direct the witness to answer it or refuse to answer.
Mr. Walter. Now, Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt at that point?
May I suggest the question be made more specific, giving the date
in 1935, the date that he obtained work and went to work for the
Department?
Mr. KuNziG. What was the exact date you went to work for the
Department of Justice ?
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room
at this i:)oint. )
Mr. Glasser. I believe it was December 26, 1935.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, were you on December 26, 1935, a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Glasser. I have to know what the question means. Wliat do
you mean by "member of the Communist Party" ?
Mr. KuNziG. I suggest that the chairman direct the witness to an-
swer the question.
Mr. Velde. Yes ; the Chair feels there's no question at this time
Mr. Glasser. Sir, this
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 185
Mr. Velde (continuing). That the witness knows whether or not
lie was a meniher of the Communist Part}^ — —
Mr. Glasser. Sir, this is very important to me.
Mr. Velde (continuing) . And I direct you
Mr. Glasser. May I explain ?
Mr. Velde. To answer the question, Mr. Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. Then, since the Chair has refused, I am going to
decline to answer the question for a number of grounds — on a num-
ber of gi'ounds :
No. 1. Because the Chair has refused to allow me to state jurisdic-
tional objections.
No. 2 : Because the Chair has refused me a clarification of what this
committee considers to be the meaning of the term "member of the
Conununist Party."
Mr. Walter. Now, there are the three reasons and
Mr. Glasser. No ; I'm still stating grounds for declining.
Mr. Kearxey. You have more reasons ?
Mr. Glasser. Oh, yes ; I have several.
Mr. Walter. The principal reason is you were and don't want to
admit it ; isn't that the principal reason ?
Mr. Glasser. I repudiate the innuendo.
Mr. Walter. No; that is not an innuendo. I am merely making
a statement.
Mr. Glasser. If that isn't an accusation, sir, will you make it
under oath?
I'm being required to testify under oath.
I'm not trying to be impertinent, but I'm trying to bring home to
you, sir, that that was unfair.
Mr. Waltcr. Were you a member of the Communist Party at that
time
Mr. Doyle. December 26.
Mr. Walter. On the 26th of December ?
Mr. Glasser. May I continue my reasons for declining to answer
that question ?
The committee, I believe, has customarily allowed witnesses the
right to state their reasons. Isn't that correct ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Yes
Mr. Glasser. Now
Mr. Velde. But not to argue.
Mr. Glasser. I don't wish to argue, Mr. Velde.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Glasser, we are out merely to determine facts rela-
tive to communism. Communist propaganda— the duty imposed on us
by the House of Representatives.
Mr. Glasser. Then, why did you call me ?
Mr. Velde. You could, if you saw fit, answer these questions, tell
us the truth about any Communist or other subversive connections you
might have had, and it would be very helpful to this committee.
Mv. Doyle. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Now, the Chair will allow you to proceed with your
reasons for refusing to answer. However, I would appreciate it
very much if 3'ou would answer the questions— —
Mr. Doyle."^ Mr. Chairman.
186 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. And I direct yon
Mr. Doyle. I niioht state this : The witness has stated the question
was indefinite Avherein he was asked whether or not he was a member
of the Communist Party. I might suggest that counsel ask him
whetlier or not lie was a member of the Communist Party on December
.'26, 1935, either in Russia or the United States, and that certainly
would make it definite, wouldn't it ?
Mr. Glasser. Not definite enough.
May I explain why?
I don't want you to conclude that I'm being obstructive, simply
obstructive.
Mr. Velde. The witness is directed to answer or refuse to answer
the question.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I take it that I'm permitted to continue stating my
reasons for declining to answer; is that correct?
Mr. Velde. Yes ; but not arguing.
Mr. Glasser. No; I don't wish to argue, sir. I merely wish to
state the reasons and wdiere, on its face, the statement of a reason
might not be meaningful, I would probably wish to add a few words
of explanatory meaning; but I won't prolong or filibuster. Don't
fear that.
I had already stated two reasons why I must at least at this time —
at this stage of this proceeding decline to answer that question.
No. 1—
Mr. Velde. Would you mind stating the reasons very briefly and
simply, because we must get on with the hearing.
Mr. Glasser. I'll be as brief as I can, Mr. Velde, I assure you.
Consonant with the mortal seriousness of this situation to me and
the long time I've lived with it — I mean this is — this is it today, and
I've got to be heard today, because this is it.
Now, I stated No. 1 — that I decline because the chairman had re-
fused me permission to state my jurisdictional objections, and it seems
to me that I — I must, nevertheless, now, within the framework of this
explanation of my reasons for declining just very briefly state what
those jurisdictional objections were, not now by way of making a
motion but by way of stating my reasons for declining, very briefly.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I ask that he again
Mr. Velde. Now, he has
Mr. Clardy. Be directed
Mr. Velde. Promised to make it very brief and the chairman
will •
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. I have no faith in his promise, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Clardy, I can't help that. I'm sorry that you
don't have faith in my promise.
Mr. Clardy. I don't think you are sorry at all, sir.
Mr. Glasser. I'm truly sorry. In fact, I'm sorry, Mr. Clardy
Mr. Clardy. Get on
Mr. Glasser. Please don't address me in that tone, Mr. Clardy. I
don't have to take abuse. That isn't fair.
Mr. Clardy. Get on with your answer.
Mr. Glasser. Now, my jurisdictional objections, very, very briefly,
are that, as the committee has been informed :
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 187
No. 1 : As the committee has been informed, this matter has been
investigated and adjudicated in my favor on numerous occasions.
Tlie precise question now on the — on the
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser (continuing). On the record is whether I was a Com-
munist on December 26, 1935. That question has been adjudicated
in my favor. The committee knows that. It was adjudicated after
a very exhaustive
Mr. Walter. Just a minute — at that point. The committee doesn't
know that. The committee has been informed and is in possession
of information to the contrary. The committee has been informed
that you were a member of the Communist Party when you first
obtained employment with the United States Government.
Mr. Clardy. And the very statement you filed with the press the
last time at least raises a suspicion in that direction, sir.
Mr. Glasser. May I know why, sir?
Mr. Clardy. Proceed.
Mr. Glasser. Well, then, will you withdraw that remark?
Mr. Clardy. No, sir,
Mr. Glasser. Then, please explain it.
Mr. Clardy. Will you direct him to answer the question?
Mr. Velde. Will the witness please proceed?
Mr. Glasser. Yes.
Mr. Velde. And, remember, the witness promised he would make
his
Mr. Glasser. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Reasons brief.
Mr. Glasser. I am going to do my honorable best to keep that
promise.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, before we go on, Mr. Chairman, I would
like to call your attention to the fact that we are not concerned with
the reasons that a witness might have in his mind for not answering
questions. The witness may decline to answer for constitutional rea-
sons, and that is all.
It seems to me that we have already permitted too much time to be
wasted, and I suggest that the witness ought to be directed
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Walter (continuing). To proceed in the same manner as all
other witnesses appearing before this committee.
Mr. Clardy. I join with that.
Mr. Velde. I concur with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, but
I do feel, as a member of the bar, that you should have a brief chance
to explain your reasons for your refusal to answer.
Mr. Glasser. I appreciate that, Mr. Velde, truthfully, and man to
man I appreciate that.
Mr. Velde. And will you please make it brief ?
Mr. Glasser. Yes; I'll proceed. Interruptions may occur, but I'll
proceed.
Then, I was in the course of stating — I was in the course of stating
as a ground for my jurisdictional objections that these are matters
which have been investigated and adjudicated in my favor by the
following bodies :
(1) A special trial committee appointed by the Attorney General
of the Department of Justice.
188 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
(2)
Mr. Velde. The Chair feels that you have gone into argument
agam-
Mr. Glasser. Oh-
Mr. Velde. And I direct you again to answer the question which
was asked you by counsel ; and if you don't remember, we will have
the question repeated.
Mr. Glasser. I beg your pardon,
Mr. Velde. If you don't remember what the question was, we will
have the question repeated.
Mr. Glasser. No ; I know the question.
Mr. Velde. I direct you, without further argument
Mr. Gl.\sser. I can't say any further reasons without answering?
Is that your ruling ?
Mr. Clardy. He told you no further argument.
Mr. Velde. Answer or refuse to answer.
Mr. Glasser. Oh, yes. Now I will, of course.
Now, a second reason in support of my jurisdictional objection is
that — and, Mr. Velde, please forgive me for this; there is no per-
sonal offense intended — Mr. Velde was formerly an official of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. Velde. The witness has done me a great injustice in promising
to answer the question or refuse to answer it in a very brief statement.
I have given you every privilege that I know that we could give as a
committee of Congress.
Now, I ask you, please, to answer or refuse to answer and state
your constitutional grounds.
Mr. Glasser. All right.
I've stated, then, the jurisdictional grounds to the extent that the
committee will permit me to state them.
Next, because of the previous adjudications, the central one of which
was in a statutory proceeding under Public Law 135 of the 77th
Congress, and because in that proceeding there was a partial penalty
imposed upon me, I, therefore, invoke, the double jeopardy provision
of the Constitution by assimilation, by analogy — at least I invoke the
right as assimilated to double jeopardy — for the same reasons.
Mr. Walter. What offense do you think you are being tried for ?
Mr. Glasser. I beg your pardon.
Mr. Walter. What offense do you think you are being tried for ?
You ought to know, as a professor of law, this is not a criminal pro-
ceeding at all.
Mr. Glasser. I think this committee is engaging in an accusatory
activity with respect to me, and the matters of which I'm being ac-
cused are now today in the criminal area. Isn't that so, Mr. Walter ?
I mean, you know that.
Mr. Walter. No ; you are not being charged with anything. You
are fleeing when you are not being pursued.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Walter, you charged me before when I was
Mr. Walter. No ; we haven't charged you with anything.
Mr. Glasser. You charged me, Mr. Walter
Mr. Walter. The only implication here came from your own lips
when you expressed the apprehension that our distinguished chairman,
because he had been a member of the FBI, might know more about you
than he otherwise would.
COMJMUTSriST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 189
Mr. Jackson. Professor Glasser, you are here before this commit-
tee because the committee has evidence of possible association within
the Communist Party. This is an investigation designed to find which
educators in America are or have been members of the Communist
Party. The questions that will be directed to you are directed to that
point alone, and it would be very helpful if, instead of entering into
argument and debate, you would see fit to answer the questions as
simply and as briefly as you can.
Mr.' Clardy. And if you have no Communist connections and will
say so directly, the committee will be glad to let that fact be known
to the public.
Mr. Glasser. Oh, I know that, sir. I know
Mr. Kearney. I think, professor, I can clear this situation up, as
far as your answer is concerned, by asking you this very simple ques-
tion : Did you, on December the 26th, 1935, belong to any organization
which advocated the overthrow of the United States Government by
force or violence?
Mr. Glasser. May I have a pause there ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. BouDiN. May we have another moment ?
Mr. Velde. May we have order, please?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred w-ith Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. All right.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, it may be before the proceeding is
over-
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direct answer to the ques-
tion I just asked. It is a simple question. He can refuse to answer on
the grounds
Mr. Glasser. Please-
Mr. Kearney. He might incriminate himself, but, as far as these
dilatory tactics are concerned, I protest against them and suggest that
the witness be made to answer directly to any question asked.
Mr. Velde. The gentleman is certainly right.
Do you remember the question ?
Mr. Glasser. I think so.
Mr. Velde. All right, Mr. Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. It was whether, on December 26, 1935, 1 was a member
of any organization which advocated the overthrow of the Govern-
ment by force and violence.
Did you use those words, sir?
Mr. Kearney. Yes.
Mr. Velde. I believe that is right.
Mr. Glasser. All right.
Now, I'm going to answer that question, and I have only one condi-
tion, if I may use a word that might appear as though I'm taking airs
unto myself with the word "condition," but I do have to do this. I
have to ask the Chair to permit me to state what I understand to be
the meaning of "organization advocating" and "Communist Party,"
and then I will answer.
May I do that ?
Mr. Velde. The question is simple, plain, direct, Professor Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. Unless, sir
190 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. The Chair-
Mr. Glasser. Unless I can get clarification
Mr. Velde. Directs you to answer or refuse to answer.
Mr. Glu\sser. Why can't we have a clarification? What's wrong
with that, truthfully ?
Mr. Velde. You have been directed to answer or refuse to answer
this question.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Sir, without clarification, I cannot answer.
Mr. Kearney. Were you a member
Mr. Velde. Just a minute.
Mr. Kearney. Of the Communist
Mr. Glasser. Sir, I
Mr. Velde. Just a minute.
Mr. Glasser. I beg your pardon. -
Mr. Velde. You cannot answer the question ? That is your answer ?
Mr. Glasser. Unless there is clarification.
Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to answer the question ?
Mr. Glasser. I refuse to answer the question unless there is clar-
ification, and I will state — I have been stating grounds.
Mr. Jackson. No ; just your refusal is
Mr. Glasser. The grounds previously stated apply to this refusal,
and I will now continue with further grounds.
May I do that?
Mr. Jackson. Does your refusal in this instance also involve the
use of the fifth amendment to the Constitution ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I don't know yet, sir, because I'm going to be asking
the committee whether they will accept this ground and the next
ground ; and if they don't 1 may come to the fifth. I don't know.
Mr. Jackson. Professor Glasser, the committee is not going to be
subject to any conditions you may make relative to what may subse-
quently happen.
You are being asked direct questions which can be answered by
a direct answer.
Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I would like to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Jackson. Well, please do. I should like to have an answer
to it.
Mr. Clardy. So would I.
Mr. Glasser. But, you see, I want to answer a lot of your ques-
tions. But I want to answer them under protest, and I would like to
state the grounds of my protest. That is all I want to do.
Mr. Jackson. That isn't necessary. We will assume and it can
be stipulated, as you lawyers say, that you are protesting your an-
swer.
Are you now a member of the Communist Party, Professor
Glasser ?
Mr. Glasser. Will it be stipulated
Mr. Velde. The witness is directed to answer that question
Mr. Glasser. Under the
Mr. Velde. Or refuse to answer it.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 191
Mr, Glasser. Under the most earnest protest as an American, as a
freeman, as a passionate partisan of democracy — under those pro-
tests stated I answer I am not now a member of the Communist
Party, provided that the term "membership in the Communist
Party" is understood to mean actual, official, card-carrying, organi-
zationally connected and integrated party membership.
Mr. Jackson. Were you ever
Mr. Clardy. Were you
Mr. Kearney. Were you a member of the Communist Party oii
December the 26th, 1935 ?
Mr. Glasser. I previously declined to answer that question be-
cause I couldn't get clarification. Now, I think I've gotten clarifi-
cation into the record now.
Mr. Kearney. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
December 26, 1935 ?
That is a very simple question.
Mr. Glasser. Then, subject to the clarification that I indicated a
moment ago, I was not a member of the Communist Party on De-
cember 26, 1935.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Glasser. There my answer is as follows : The Department of
Justice findings, dated October 24, 1941
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I am not interested in the Depart-
ment of Justice findings. I am interested in finding out whether the
witness has ever been a member of the Communist Party.
I ask that he be directed to answer that question.
]\Ir. Glasser. All right ; I am going to answer that question for all
periods of time, except the period of time covered by the Department
of Justice adjudication.
Mr. Jackson. You were never a member of the Communist Party,
except for your declination or, rather-
Mr. Glasser. I haven't answered. I am going to-
Mr. Jackson. Your statement?
Mr. Glasser. Answer it for all periods.
Perhaps my statement — perhaps the reporter better read that back.
Mr. Jackson. No; just a minute. I want to pursue this just one
moment.
Is the answer to my question this: That you have never been a
member of the Communist Party at any time, at any place, except
for the period of time covered by the
Mr. Glasser. That is not the same
Mr. Jackson. Department of Justice adjudication?
Mr. Glasser. That is not my statement. My statement was: I
will answer the question for all periods of time and for all places,
subject to my protest, reservation, clarifications, et cetera. I will
answer the question for all times and for all places except the times
and places, except the times and places covered by the Department of
Justice investigation and ruling in my favor made October 24,. 1941,
and thereafter ratified by several agencies, including the Supreme
Court of the United States.
Mr. Jackson. Were you a member of the Communist Party during
the period of time to which you take exception here, during the ad-
judication of your case by the Department of Justice?
192 COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
INIr. Glasser. For the reasons which I have already stated, and for
other reasons, which I sliall endeavor to place upon the record, as
the committee's grace will allow during the course of the hearing, I
am declining to answer the question as to whether I was a member
of the Communist Party, which we are to take in either a clarified
or unclarified meaning. I am declining to answer that question for
the period covered by the Department of Justice investigation and
ruling.
Mr. Jackson. And you
Mr. Velde. Professor^
Mr. Jackson. Do so decline to answer ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin. )
Mr. Glasser. Now, may I state my reasons for declining ?
Mr. Jackson. You do so decline to answer
Mr. Velde. You have already stated your reasons.
Mr. Jackson. As to that period of time ?
Mr. Glasser. I haven't really had an opportunity to state my reasons
in what I consider to be the fair sufficiency of detail to protect me
against a contempt citation perhaps, against action by my university,
against misunderstanding among the public at large.
Mr. Scherer. Now
Mr. Glasser. This is just a fair deal that I am asking for,
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Glasser. Let me state my reasons.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I haven't said anything.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Professor, as a lawyer you know that there is only
one reason why you can refuse to answer the question propounded,
and that is the ground that under the fifth amendment your answer
might tend to incriminate you.
Now, if that is your answer, you can so state and this committee
■will ask no further questions on that subject.
Now, that is the only reason, as I understand the law, as a fellow
lawyer — and you know as a fellow lawyer that is the only reason —
before this committee why you can refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Glasser. Sir, I know that has been the practice of this com-
mittee.
Mr. Scherer. That isn't the practice of this committee. That i°
the law of the land.
Mr. Glasser. There I must dissent.
You see, it may be that this case, this very case
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
Mr. Velde. The witness is arguing, and I ask the counsel to proceed.
Mr. Clardt. May I ask a question ?
Mr. Velde. Proceed with the questions, Mr. Counsel.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Glasser. What is that?
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
IMr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I have a question I would like to ask
the witness.
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Glasser. Yes.
Mr. Velde, Pardon me, Mr. Clardy.
COMJVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 193
Mr. Clardy. Witness, in some of your previous
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Clardy. Oh.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, before we proceed with the next
question
Mr. Glasser. Well, I haven't finished stating my reasons for re-
fusing to answer the previous question. I may want to invoke the
fifth amendment. I may want to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. The questions will be asked by counsel.
Mr. Glasser. Am I to be forbidden to invoke the fifth amendment?
Mr. Velde. The Chair would appreciate it if the witness would
answer the questions or refuse to answer the questions.
Mr. Glasser. ]\Ir. Velde, am I to be forbidden to invoke the fifth
amendment here ?
Mr. Jacksox. Of course you will not be forbidden to invoke the
fifth amendment. If you wish to invoke the fifth amendment, will
you please invoke it and get it over with?
That is all we are asking you to do.
During the i^eriod of time which you declined to cover in your
general denial of membership in the Communist Party, that period
of time during which your case was being adjudicated in the Justice
Department, were you a member of the Communist Party i
Mr. Gl/Vsser. Now, I have declined to answer that question.
Mr. Jackson. Upon
Mr. Glasser. Upon various
Mr. Jackson. Upon the grounds of the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Glasser. Not yet. I have one
Mr. Jackson. Well
Mr. Glasser. I have one anterior ground.
Mr. Jackson. Let us get to the legal
Mr. Glasser. All right.
Mr. Jackson. Constitutional basis for your declination to answei
the question.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Gl.\sser. May my attorney speak ?
Mr. Jackson, Of course.
Mr. BoLT)iN. May I point out that there are other grounds, Mr.
Jackson, than the fifth amendment and that the Court of Appeals in
the District of Columbia has stated various other grounds in the
Bowers case.
Mr. Velde. As I stated to you before, you are allowed to confer
with the witness, and I think the counsel will agree we have given you
every privilege and opportunity to confer with your client.
Mr. BouDiN. You have not given my client an opportunity to ex-
press his views to you.
Mr. Velde. It has been the ruling of this congressional committee,
and it will continue to be the ruling of this committee, that you may
confer with your client, but not make any arguments as far as you,
yourself, are concerned.
Mr. BouDiN. I don't want to argue.
Mr. Velde. Unless you are under oath, of course.
Mr. BouDiN. I would be perfectly willing to state what the law is
under oath. I know that the law is not as Mr. Jackson said —excuse
194 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
me a second ; let me consult with my client, and he can state what the
law is.
Mr. Velde. You may have an opportunity to consult with your
client.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with INIr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I am ready to proceed.
In four short phrases, the total of wliich will not take 15 seconds,
my first anterior grounds for declining to answer are that the matter
has been adjudicated, with all of the adjunct legal consequences at-
taching thereto; No. 2, that the committee is without jurisdiction in
this matter : Witness the decision in the Rumely case from the Supreme
Court the other day, within the past week ; No. 3, the fii-st amendment,
as witness the concurrence in the Rumely decision of the Supreme
Court in this past week ; No. 4, tlm question of pertinency which is to
be integrated with the question of prior adjudication, as witness the
Bowers case on the Circuit Court of Appeals for the Seventh Cir-
cuit — District of Columbia, within the past few weeks.
Now, a fifth ground, before I come to the fifth amendment — as a
matter of fact, I now come to the fifth amendment.
Please, I ask now that the members listen closely because I am
going to ask you specifically whether you will still direct me to answer
after I have stated this next ground.
It is my understanding that this committee and kindred committees
of the Congress consider that the invoking of the self-incrimination
provision of the fifth amendment is an admission of guilt. I will not
ask the committee whether that is a correct summary of its position.
I have a number of citations from the transcripts of this committee
that so indicate.
Mr. Velde. I believe that I can speak for the connnittee and say
that the use of the fifth amendment, the self-incrimination provision,
is not considered by any member of this committee or by the committee
as a whole as constituting an affirmative statement that you are a mem-
ber of the Communist Party.
Mr. Glasser. That is an admission of guilt — you are saying it is not
even an admission of guilt?
Mr. BouDiN. It is not.
Mr. Glasser. That is wonderful news for the whole country, Mr.
Velde, really.
Mr. Kearney. Are you just catching up with that?
Mr. Glasser. Would you like me to read back from
Mr. Kearnet. No.
Mr. Clardy. No, we don't care to hear any of that.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Kearney, I have here
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. Glasser. All right. Why, since upon the records of this com-
mittee there are indications that the invoking of the fifth amend-
ment is an admission of guilt, I then suggest the following as my
penultimate — that means next to the last — ground, and it is
as follows:
Within the structure of the due-process clause of the fifth amend-
ment there has today occurred an impasse of procedural fairness be-
fore committees such as this committee in the following resj)ect: If
a man invokes the fifth amendment
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 195
Mr. KuNziG. ]SIr. Chairman, I should like to suggest that the wit-
ness be directed to answer the question. This stating of grounds and
these speeches and the various explanations and illustrations given are
reaching the absolute ludicrous. I suggest the witness be directed
to answer the question or to stand upon the fifth amendment, and not
to go on for the rest of this day and 6 weeks further.
Mr. Velde. Proceed and answer the question. You are so directed.
Mr. Glasser. Structured within the due-process clause, having in
view the impasse of procedural fairness which has occurred, for the
reasons I stated. I therefore now state as follows : I invoke the fifth
amendment due-process clause integrated with the fifth amendment
self-incrimination provision as a ground for my declining to answer
that question on this ground, that to invoke the fifth amendment self-
incrimination provision alone as a ground for declining to answer the
question, to invoke the fifth in itself, would incriminate me. Will the
committee accept that?
Mr. Jacksox. Well, now, having given the committee members a
lesson in grammar and a lesson in law, my understanding of your
answer — I take back the lesson in law.
]\lr. ClxVedy. Not a very good lesson,
Mr. Jackson. My understanding of the answer to my question is
that you take the legal ground, the constitutional legal ground, for
refusing to answer
Mr. Glasser. So far.
Mr. Jacksox. Plus the other reasons which you have stated.
Mr. Glasser. This is as far as I have gone so far.
]Mr. Jackson. Well, we got up and passed the fifth amendment.
That is at least a step in the right direction.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Jackson, do you realize I have not yet invoked
the self-incrimination provision of the fifth amendment as a ground
for declining to answer?
Mr. Jackson. You have not invoked it ?
Mr. Glasser. I have not.
Mr. Jackson. Do you so invoke it ?
Mr. Glasser. I have asked for a ruling on my other grounds.
Mr. Jackson. You have stated them for the record.
Mv. Velde. You have been directed to answer or refuse to answer
the questions, Professor.
Mr. Glasser. I take it the grounds are overruled, although there has
been no formal action to that effect.
]Mr. Doyle. Just a minute, Mr. Chairman. I want the record to
show there is no overruling or ruling on anything. (Addressing the
witness. ) You as a lawyer know this is not a court, and you are trying
to make monkeys out of this committee, that is what you are trying
to do, sir.
Mr. Glasser. Xo, sir: I deny that.
Mr. Doyle. I submit the record will show that. I am a lawyer, too,
and I know what you are trying to do.
Mr. Glasser. No, sir; I am trying to stand up for my rights. I
am a persecuted person.
Mr. Doy'le. I just wish the record to show further on that point this :
This committee is not a court. It does not undertake to rule on your
rights at all. You have a perfect right, and that has always been my
196 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
position as a member of this committee : For any witness to plead or
to invoke any part of the United States Constitution, the first and
fifth amendments. And I wish to say this, sir, to you, that I know
of no member of this committee who ever inferred directly or indi-
rectly that because you invoke it is a plea of guilty or anything of
that sort.
We have never held that. We have never thought that. You have a
perfect right to plead your constitutional rights.
JNIr. Glasser. Sir, I hail
Mr. Doyle. We respect it.
Mr. Glasser. I think many good people will hail that statement.
It is the first time — I say it to this whole room and this committee — I
say it is the first time that has been clearly or even inferentially or
suggestively stated by this committee.
Mr. Doyle. No. I have often publicly so stated.
Mr. Glasser. Excellent ; I conmiend you, sir, I really do.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel
Mr. Glasser. I now finish
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, please. I would respectfully request
the members as well as the witness
Mr. Glasser. I am sorry, sir.
]Mr. Velde. I would respectfully request the members as well as
the witness to allow the counsel to proceed at this point.
Mr. Jackson. I have a question pending, Mr. Chairman, which at
the time has not been answered, and if counsel wants to pursue that
particular question — but I do want a definite and positive answer to
the question which I have asked, and that is, during the period of
time that the witness' status was being adjudicated by the Depart-
ment of Justice, was he a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr, Glasser. I do not think that is the question, sir.
Mr. Jackson. That is good enough. The substance of it is there.
Were you during that time a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Glasser. I don't mean that; I mean that the period of time
must be defined. The period of time is the ]3eriod of time covered
by the Department of Justice investigation and ruling.
All right.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. With one moie statement for the record, that I am
protesting against not having been allowed sufficient leeway for the
statement of my grounds. I now then decline to answer the question,
which I believe is: Was I a member of the Communist Party or mem-
ber of an organization advocating overthrow, etc. ? — those terms being
undefined, and my reasons for declining not being sufficiently stated,
Inow decline to answer that question.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. First, that there was a prior adjudication that I was
not ; and, second, on the ground of the fifth-amendment provision tliat
no person may be required to be a witness against himself.
Mr. Walter. In any criminal procedure, you ought to know that.
Mr. Glasser. Yes, sir ; I know that.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Glasser, were you ever at any time suspended by
the Department of Justice of the United States of America ?
Mr. Glasser. The committee has that information ; therefore, there
is no legislative pertinency in the question.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 197
Mr. KuNziG. I ask the cliairman that the witness be directed to
answer the question.
Mr. Velde. Yes ; that is a perfectly legitimate question. The wit-
ness is directed to answer.
Mr. Glasser. All right. Under the protest indicated, I answer
"yes" ; I was suspended.
Mr. KuNziG. 1 ask that you mark this "Exhibit 1" for identification.
(Letter to Mr. Abraham Glasser marked "Glasser Exhibit No. 1"
for identification.)
Mr. Glasser. May I smoke, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Velde. Certainly.
Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Examiner, I have had a document marked "Ex-
hibit 1, Glasser case," and I ask permission to read it into the record.
Mr. Velde. It is so ordered.
Mr. KuNZiG (reading) :
Department of Justice, Washington, D. C, June 17, 1941 —
]\Ir. Glasser. I can tell you that from memory,
Mr. KuNziG. I am sure you can, Mr. Glasser.
A letter to Mr. Abraham Glasser :
My Dear Mr. Glasser : Effective as of this date, you are suspended as a special
attorney. Antitrust Division, Department of Justice, until further notice.
Respectfully,
Robert H. Jackson,
Attorney General.
By Matthew F. McGuire,
The Assistant to the Attorney General.
Mr. BouDiN. Could I just see that for a second if you are reading
something into the record ?
Mr. KuNziG. You have a copy. It is printed in the 50-page brief
whicli you brought to Washington last week.
Mr. Glasser. No.
Mr. BouDiN. No ; you are incorrect. It was a good rejoinder, but you
are wrong
Mr. KuxziG. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. BouDiN. May I look at it for a moment ? I do not want to make
a comment. I just want to see the exhibits as they go in.
]Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Glasser. Are you addressing me, Mr. Kunzig ?
Mr. Kunzig. Are you the chairman ?
Mr. Glasser. No.
Mr, Kunzig. All right.
I now olTer this document. Exhibit 1, for identification, into evidence
as Glasser Exhibit No. 1.
]Mr. Velde. It will be received.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Chairman, our investigation has produced records
which show or confirm the situation involved in this Glasser letter.
I have liere a document marked "Exhibit 2, Glasser," for identification
and I should lil^e permission to read this document into the record.
Mr. Velde. Permission is granted, and it is so ordered.
(Memorandum for Hon. Matthew F. McGuire marked "Glasser
Exhibit No. 2" for identification.)
Mr. Kunzig (reading) :
"Department of Justice, Washington, D. O."
198 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
You may wish to sit down if you care to, Mr. Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. Yes ; thank you.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jaclvson left the hearing
room.)
Mr. KuNziG. This will take a little time. [Continues reading:]
JTJLY 23, 1941.
MEMORANDUM FOK HON. MATTHEW F. M'GUIRE, THE ASSISTANT TO THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL, RE ABRAHAM GLASSER
Abraham Glasser is an attorney employed in the Antitrust Division of the
Department of Justice. On June 17, 1941, he was suspended. This action was
taken on the basis of reports from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the
contents of which are hereinafter discussed. The investigation has continued
since that time, and additional information has been obtained. The various re-
ports have been reviewed by the undersigned, and their pertinent portions are
summarized in this memorandum.
* * * The confidential reports of the Federal Bureau of Investigation con-
clusively demonstrate that among his friends and acquaintances Glasser numbers
at least some Communists, who discuss and correspond with him concerning
communism and indicate that they are sympathetic to its doctrines.
Section 9A of the Hatch Act (act of Aug. 2, 1939; 53 Stat. 1147) makes it
unlawful for any person employed by any agency of the Federal Government to
have membership in any political party or organization which advocates the
overthrow of our constitutional form of government in the United States. It will
be observed that this provision of the Hatch Act does not use the phrase "force
and violence." It proscribes membership on the part of Government employees
in any organization which advocates the overthrow of the constitutional form
of government in the United States, irrespective of whether or not such over-
throw is to be accompanied by force and violence. The provision is obviously
directed at the Communist Party, among other organizations.
This inference is clear from the legislative history of the provision. Section
9A was added to the bill by an amendment introduced on the tloor of the House
by Congressman Nichols. In explaining the purpose of his proposal and in
enumerating the groups that he intended to reach, he specitically named Com-
munists, Fascists, and members of the German-American Bund (Congressional
Record, vol. 84, p. 9635, July 20, 1939) .
The Department of Justice Appropriation Act for the fiscal vear ending June
30, 1942 (act of June 28, 1941, Public Law No. 135, 77th Cong.), section 504, pro-
vides that no part of any appropriation appropriated by the act should be used
to pay the salary or wages of any person who advocates or who is a member of
an organization that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United
States by force or violence.
In the light of the discussion that follows, however, it is not necessary to deter-
mine whether there is sufficient proof that Glasser is a member of any organization
tliat advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States, or whether
he himself advocates such overthrow by force or violence. It is the view of the
undersigned
Mr. Glasser. Who is the undersigned ?
Mr. KuNziG. The undersigned is Alexander Holtzoff, presently a
judge
Mr. Glasser. I thought so.
Mr. KuNziG. I ask that the witness be directed to refrain from
comments.
Mr. Velde. Would you please wait until after the question is asked
you.
Mr. KuNziG. Alexander Holtzoff, then with the Department of
Justice and presently a judge in Washington, D. C. [Continues
reading:]
It is the view of the undersigned that the matter under consideration should
be disposed of on another ground, which is about to be discussed.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 199
Mr. KuNziG. (Continuing to read) :
II. An agent of the OGPU, who will be referred to in this memorandum as
"X"* and who is now in custody in Canada, was examined at length by Canadian
authorities and others.
There is an asterisk after the letter X, and at the bottom of the page,
page 4 of this memorandum Avhich is "Exhibit 2, Glasser," it states:
The real name of "X" is found in the confidential reports of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation ; but as Glasser did not know "X" by the latter's real name,
"X's" name will not be disclosed in this memorandum. [Footnote in original
document.]
I wish to state to the chairman that X's name will be disclosed fur-
ther in this hearing. [Continues reading :]
An agent of the OGPU, who will be referred to in this memorandum as "X"
and who is now in custody in Canada, was examined at length by Canadian au-
thorities and others. In the course of these interviews "X" stated that during
the latter part of 1937 and the early part of 1938, while he appears to have been
operating from New York as headquarters, he had a contact in the Department
of Justice in Washington, whose name he gave as Abraham Glasser. "X" stated
that one Nikolai Stern, who also was an OGPU agent and was "X's" superior,
arranged for the first meeting between "X" and Glasser. According to "X," he
and Glasser met between 7 and 10 times during that i)eriod. Some meetings
were in Washington and some in New York. "X" came down to Washington
a number of times to meet Glasser, while on other occasions Glasser went to
New York to meet "X." '"X" further states that Glasser secured information
which he believed would be of benefit to the OGPU and turned it over to "X" in
writing. "X" declined to be explicit as to the exact nature of the information
obtained from Glasser, but stated that most of it related to the Spanish War ; and
that occasionally Glasser was given 4 or .5 names to check from the Department
of -Justice files and submitted to "X" written reports in respect to them. "X"
then turned them over to his superior officers. "X" declined to give fiarther
details as to the contents of the reports.
Thereafter, a photograph of Glasser was sent to Canada. Upon being con-
fronted with it, "X" identified it as the photograph of the Abraham Glasser with
whom he had contacts. It is clear, therefore, that there can be no contention
of mistaken identity or that the person with whom "X" had contacts was some
other person by the same name.
"X" further stated that Nikolai Stern, who has already been referred to,
and one Ovakimian, another OGPU agent, who was recently arrested on a charge
of acting as a foreign agent without registering as required by law, had contacts
with Glasser, botli liefore and subsequently to the period during which "X" was
in communication with him.
"X" stated tliat Glasser did not receive any money, but engaged in the aliove-
described activity because he was a fanatical Communist supporter. This state-
ment is contradicted by "X's" wife, also in Canada, who stated that her hus-
band told her that on one occasion he paid money to Glasser.
It thus appears that Glasser has been in communication with and furnishing
information to spies of the Soviet Government. Even if we were to indulge
in the somewhat farfetched assumption that Glasser was the dupe of these shrewd
and insidious individuals, and did not realize the full import of these activities,
that very fact would make his presence in the Department of Justice as dangerous
as though he were in the pay of foreign agents.
The undersigned is not unmindful of the effect that any action taken in this
matter may have on Glasser's future. On the other hand, the undersigned is
fully cognizant of his responsibility to the Government. The facts just reviewed
preclude any other alternative than a recommendation that Glasser be dismissed
with prejudice.
Accordingly, it is recommended that Glasser be dismissed with prejudice.
In view of the fact that Glassers' position is not in the classified civil service,
the Attorney General has a legal right to terminate his services without any
explanation. It would seem better, however, that Glasser should be apprised of
the foregoing and be given an opportunity to state his position before final action
30172— 53— .pt. 2 6
200 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
is taken. No reason appears why this memorandnm may not be shown to him or
to his counsel, the firm of Covington, Burling, Rublee, Acheson, & Shorb.
Signed, Alexander Holtzoff.
Mr. Velde. At this point I declare that we will be in recess for 10
minutes.
Mr. Glasser. May I just say one thing?
Mr. Velde. Recess.
(Whereupon a short recess was taken, after which the following
committee members were present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer,
Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.)
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, may I say something
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Counsel has some other matters.
Mr. BouDiN. We want to object to the reading
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Velde, will I not be permitted to state an objec-
tion at this time ?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel.
JNIr. KuNZiG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to offer another docu-
ment into evidence, exhibit 3, so marked, "Exhibit 3, Glasser," for
identification which is as follows — and I should like permission to
read this document into the record.
Mr. Velde. Permission is granted.
(Memorandum for the records marked "Glasser Exhibit No. 3" for
identification.)
Mr. BouDiN. I object.
Mr. KuNziG (reading) :
Office of the Attorney General, Washington, D. C. October 24, 1941. Memo-
randum for the records. In re : Abraham Glasser.
Mr. Glasser. What was that date ? I am sorry.
Mr. KuNziG. October 24, 1941.
Since the memorandum of August 12, 1941 (hereto attached) summarizing
tue progress of this matter up to that date, additional reports have been received
irom the FBI. We, having been further advised that the material facts un-
covered by the investigation (except for the identity of the main informer)
could be disclosed to Mr. Glasser for the purpose of a hearing, have today
granted such hearing.
It is not necessary here to repeat the charges against Glasser as they are
contained in the memorandum of August 12, except to add that the later reports
showed that Glasser in all likelihood did not know the true identity of the in-
formant*
then there is a star —
— nor the nature of his activities, and the true purpose for which he might wish
the information allegedly sought from Mr. Glasser. Mr. Glasser denied the
commission of any of the improprieties described by — stai\ He denied that he
knew anyone who fit the scene portrayed by — star — activities —
I might add that whenever I say "star," there is deletion in the
documents.
— and either denied or said that he did not recall any of the meetings or conver-
sations described by — star.
In the course of his statements at the heai-ing Glasser admitted that he dis-
cussed with some of his friends matters which came to his notice in connection
with his official duties, or recounted to them what he considered to be interesting
details of cases or incidents which were contained in the files or correspondence
C03VDVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 201
of the Department of Justice coming to his attention. He explainer! this con-
duct by saying that the subjects were ones in ^Yhich he had an intense personal
interest, and which moved him to their discussion with persons liaving a similar
interest in them. He placed these occurrences in a period beginning about the
middle of 1937 and extending through the early part of 1938.
Upon a consideration of the entire record, and of the statements of Mr.
Glasser, the committee consisting of Assistant Solicitor General Charles Fahy,
Special Assistant to the Attorney General Edwin Dickinson, and myself —
And it is signed by Ugo Carusi, executive assistant to the Attorney
General —
have reached the following conclusions :
1. The charge that Mr. Glasser is a Communist or belongs to a communistic
organization knowing it to be such, is not sustained.
2. His contacts with — star — if they existed, were not inspired by motives
of disloyalty, nor by the desire knowingly to misuse his official position to the
advantage of an ill-intentioned outsider.
3. Glasser has been negligent in the manner in which he has treated the
contents of the oflBicial files and papers of the Department of Justice.
4. Because of liis careless and improper disclosure of oflBcial information, he
should tender his resignation effective at the close of business on October 31,
1941, his status of suspension being terminated as of the close of business July
81, 1941.
Signed, Ugo Carusi, executive assistant to the Attorney General; Charles
Fahy, Acting Solicitor General ; Edwin D. Dickinson.
In the lower left-hand, "Approved. F. B. 11/6/41," which I call
to the attention of the chairman is a date after the date on which Mr.
Glasser was requested to tender his resignation.
I offer this document in evidence as Glasser Exhibit 3.
INIr. VrxDE. It will be received.
Mr. Glasser. May I speak now, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Velde. Does counsel have further questions?
Mr. KuxziG. I have further questions, j-es, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Glasser. May I speak before the questions are put?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Glasser, while you were employed by the
United States Department of Justice, did you become acquainted with
an individual by the name of Armand Labis Feldman, A-r-m-a-n-d,
L-a-b-i-s, F-e-1-d-m-a-n?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. For the reason that this is an adjudicated matter
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to suggest that if we are
going through the same list of reasons
Mr. Glasser. No.
Mr. KuNziG. That the witness merely state the same reasons.
Mr. Glasser. You mean refer back to the previous reasons ; is that
what you mean ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. All right. For the reasons previously stated, and
further--now I have new reasons — because the introduction of the
Holtzolf memorandum was the introduction of what is in effect merely
an indictment by a prosecuting official
Mr. Velde. The Chair does not recognize that as any
Mr. Glasser. I know, but
Mr. Velde. Reason, under law
Mr. Glasser. I wish to place on the record —
Mr. Velde. Under law or under conscience —
Mr. Gl^^sser. My conscience is very good, sir.
202 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. As a reason for refusing to answer this question. An-
swer the question.
Mr. KuNziG. May I state that the witness has now stated his entire
purpose in the statement he just made. He is trying to get something
on the record. He said, "I know that, I am just trying to get it on the
record." I suggest
Mr. Glasser. I meant that I knew this committee would reject it.
But that does not mean that this committee acts legally when it does so.
Mr. KuNziG. He was asked, Mr. Chairman, a specific question, and
I suggest that the Chair dii'ect that he answer the question or give his
reasons therefor.
Mr. BouDiN. He is giving his reasons.
Mr. Velde, You are directed to answer the question.
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., left the hearing room at
this point.)
Mr. KuNziG. Do yoti know Armand L. Feldman?
Mr. Glasser. For the reasons I have heretofore stated, I decline
to answer that question, and for the additional reason
Mr. Velde. The committee will stand in recess.
Mr. Glasser. Which I have not been permitted to state-
Mr. Velde. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 12: lU p. m., the hearing was recessed, to convene
at 2 p. m., same day.)
afternogx session
(At the hour of 2 : 07 p. m., of the same day, the proceedings were
resumed, Representatives Harold H. Velde, Bernard W. Kearney,
Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, and Clyde Doyle
being present.)
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Glasser, to keep the record clear, I am going
to go back to the last question just before the end at the luncheon
recess.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel.
Let the record show that at present Mr. Kearney, Mr. Clardy, Mr.
Scherer, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, and the chairman, a full quorum, are
present.
I am sorry, Mr. Counsel. Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. While you were employed by the United States De-
partment of Justice, did you become acquainted with an individual by
the name of Armand Labis Feldman ?
TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM GLASSEE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, LEONARD B. BOUDIN— Resumed
Mr. Glasser. That question was answered, I believe.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you answer again? The stenographer does
not have tlie notes from this morning with lier.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Well, I will just state for the record that I reiterate
the rei)ly I gave before the recess, which is a matter of record now.
Mr. KuNziG. AVould you repeat the reply you gave before the
recess ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 203
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, may I at this point or at some point
very briefly recite my objections to this entire line of questioning? I
haven't clone that yet.
Mr. Velde. How briefly, Professor?
Mr. Glasser. I would say literally, say, a maximum of — well, I
won't do it in 3 minutes. I may take 5, but I doubt it. I doubt that
it will take 5.
JNIr. Walter. Now, Mr. Chairman, I would like to interpose an
objection. AVhat do we care what his complaint is about this com-
mittee or his objections to the line of questioning? We are not going
to pay any attention to the objections to the line of questioning. We
are not going to pay any attention to the objections.
I do not know why we deviate from the usual procedure.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Sir, I think that this committee — I would submit to
this committee that it is under an obligation to observe the require-
ments of the law.
Mr. Velde. We don't need your observations as the gentleman from
Pennsylvania just mentioned.
Mr. Walter. We know the law just as well as you, and maybe
better.
Mr. Velde. What we want are facts and information, and I ask
you again if you will please give us those facts and that information
without any legalistic argument. You are not in a court of law ; you
are before a congressional committee. We are doing our best to de-
termine facts, and I certainly would appreciate it if you would answer
the questions as they are asked of you by counsel.
Mr. Glasser. I think the committee has been in part fair with me,
but not altogether fair. I appreciate
Mr. Walter. We don't care about your opinion of us. The next
thing you know, you are going to invite us to express our opinion of
you, and that you wouldn't like to hear.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, might I suggest, this might help expe-
dite a little.
Witness, we have heard at some length a great many of the objections
that you have. Now, if you do not wish to answer questions, I wish —
I am addressing this to you, Mr. Chairman — I wish the w^itness would
merely say that he is standing on the same grounds, or if you have
something additional, over and above those you have already cited,
that you merely say the fifth amendment — you may even cite the
eighteenth amendment if you want or anything else that comes to
your mind, but don't argue it.
I suggest that if you say, "On the same gTounds already advanced,"
you will have the advantage of all the argument and everything else
that you have put into the record, and it will expedite it.
Mr. Glasser. I would be perfectly willing-
Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman, I suggest if he doesn't want to do that,
that he be instructed to do that.
Mr. Glasser. I would be very willing to do that if I had already
stated my grounds fully.
Mr. Clardy. I think you have, very, very fully, and many times.
I think I am thoroughly apprised what you have in mind as one
member.
204 COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNZiG. Let me ask tlie question again. Did yovi become
acquainted with an individual by the name of Armand Laljis Feldman
while you were employed by the United States Department of Justice ?
Mr. Glasser. To the best of my recollection, my
(At this point Mr. Glasser consulted with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I was going to say, to the best of my recollection, my
preA'ious answer was as follows: I have been required, against my
will, now to restate something that is already of record, and here is
what I believe to the best of my recollection I said before the noon
recess : That for all of the reasons previously advanced by me and also
for the reasons which I have not been permitted to state, that 1 was
obliged to decline to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. Thanks, Witness.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, I say to you for the record
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. KuNziG. That Feldman is "X" as explained in the document I
read this morning. I am going to show you — I am bringing around
to you a picture. This picture is not going to be marked for identifica-
tion, Mr. Chairman.
This has been discussed before this committee. We feel — and I
would like to urge upon the committee — that this picture is a question
of national security and may not be made public. It may not be shown
to any of the press present and may not be made a part of the record,
but I should like to show this picture to the witness and ask the witness
if he has ever known this man known as Feldman.
Mr. Glasser. Aren't you fearful of showing it to me ?
Mr. KuNziG. No, I think it will be perfectly all right to show it to
you because I think you know him.
Mr. Boudin. Will you show it to me ?
Mr. Velde. I grant your request.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, I request that the counsel's last remark
be stricken from the record as accusatory unless he go under oath and
make the statement.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know this man whose picture I now show you ?
Mr. Glasser. I give the same answer
Mr. Clardy. You weren't addressing that question — —
Mr. KuNziG. I am addressing the question, of course, to the witness.
Mr. Glasser. I give the same answer that I gave to the last question.
Mr. Clardy. I think the record should sliow, Mr. Chairman, that the
picture also was exhibited to the counsel for the witness.
Mr, Velde. Yes, the record will so show.
Mr. Glasser. What is the significance of that, may I ask?
Mr. KuNziG. While you were employed by the Department of Jus-
tice or at any other time did you become acquainted with anyone by
the name of Nikolai Stern ?
Mr. Glasser. Again — under the severest but also the most respect-
ful protest, which is based, as I said, on the reasons already given and
the additional reasons which I have besought this committee to permit
me to give — I give the same answer I gave before to the last question,
to the last two questions.
Mr. KuNziG. Now I show you a picture which has been marked for
identification "Exhibit 2-A," a picture marked with the name of
Nikolai Stern, and I ask you whether you have ever seen that man
before or met that man.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 205
(Photograph marked with the name Nikolai Stern marked "Glasser
Exhibit 2-A" for identification.)
Mr. Glasser. Again under the same protest and reservation I give
the same answer.
Mr. KuNziG. I ask that a copy of this picture be placed into the rec-
ord as exhibit 2-A.
Mr. Velde. It will be received in evidence as Glasser Exhibit
No. 2-A.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Counsel, would you inquire, to make sure at this
juncture, whether his answer to the last two questions meant that,
among other things, he was invokng the fifth amendment ?
Mr. KuNziG. I will repeat that question, then, asked by Conguess-
man Clardy. In your answer to the last two questions, are you invok-
ing the fifth amendment
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. KuNziG. In your refusal to answer ?
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, may I request permission to so an-
swer — I want to answer that — to so answer that it will be evident that
my reasons are not limited to the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Clardy. I did not mean to suggest that, Mr. Chairman. I just
wanted to see whether it was one of the objections that he raised.
Mr. Glasser. Then my answer to Congressman Clardy's question
is "Yes."
Mr. KuNziG. Now, we got slightly sidetracked this morning. You
started giving us your occupational background.
Mr. Glasser. That is right, you never finished that.
Mr. KuNziG. You never finished it.
Mr. Glasser. No, I think-
Mr. KuNziG. I ask you to go back to the question-
Mr. Glasser. Pardon me. It was not I who failed to finish. The
members of the committee began asking the questions of the date of
my employment with the Department of Justice.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor, it does not matter.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is the witness willing to continue with his
educational background?
Mr. Glasser. Of course.
Mr. KuNZiG. Will you continue?
Mr. Velde. Will you proceed?
Mr. Glasser. I just don't like this contentious, invidious characteri-
zation. What is happening today is unfair enough without this sur-
plusage.
Mr. Velde. The witness has said that he was willing to answer
Mr. Glasser. Yes; that is correct.
Mr. Velde. The question relative to his educational background.
Mr. Glasser. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Velde. Will you please proceed to do that.
Mr. Glasser. I am ready.
Mr. KuNziG. Then will you kindly do it. Professor Glasser ?
Mr. Glasser. I believe I got to the point where I had described my
OPA employment, which terminated April 3, 1946, when I resigned to
go into private practice, and I tried my hand at private practice for
about a year or year and a half.
Mr. KuNziG. A\liat was the firm with which you were associated,
if any ?
206 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION f EDUCATION)
Mr. Gr.AssER. Mv. Chairman, does the committee require me to
answer that ? ]\Iy only thought now is that these are perfectly cas-
ually connected people.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, does the witness have to argue with
counsel over every question that is asked? We are going to be here
until Christmas.
Mr. Glasser. That will be
Mr. Velde. If it takes. until Christmas
Mr. Glasser. If that will be the day, I ask your forgiveness, and I
hope tliat we come to that day soon.
My firm was first Midonick & Glasser, M-i-d-o-n-i-c-k & Glasser,
G->-a-s-s-e-r.
Mr. KuNziG. What was the city in which that firm
Mr. Glasser, It was a two-city firm, New York and Washington,
I being a member of the Washington bar, and Mr. Midonick of the
New York bar. I want the record to show^ that ]Mr. jMidonick's involve-
ment here, that his name should not have any cloud cast upon it. He
is helplessly brought in here against my will.
Mr. Doyle. May I say to you, sir, we are certainly not intending
directly or indirectly to cast any cloud on his name.
Mr. Glasser. I trust not.
Mr. Doyle. Certainly not, sir.
Mr. Glasser. I believe you, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. What was your next legal association?
Mr. Glasser. Well, that firm then became enlarged and with a
change of name became Pollard, Rothbard and — I do not remember —
it was Pollard, Eothbard & Midonick, but whether I remained in the
firm name — I think — and Glasser. I am not sure whether that was
the name or whether my name dropped out because I was not able
to be actively and continuously in New York, not being admitted there,
and I left that finn for all intents and purposes, so far as active par-
ticipation was concerned, around the time that I went to work as a
law teacher in Rutgers, which was in July — I was hired as of July 1,
1947.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever try to become a member of the New York
bar.
Mv. Glasser. Do you mean did I ever file an application?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes.
Mr. Glasser. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Where are you presently employed ?
Mr. Glasser. I am presently employed at the Rutgers University
School of Law as an associate professor of law.
Mr. KuNziG. That brings us up to the present as far as your em-
ployment is concerned ?
Mr. Glasser. Yes; unless my employment is changed as of this
afternoon, which is quite possible.
Mr. KuNZiG. During the entire time of your employment with the
Depai'tment of Justice, did anyone in authority in these various hear-
ings which you have mentioned ever ask you if you knew Armand
Labis Feldman?
(At this point Mr, Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. For the reasons previously given and for the reasons
which I have not been permitted to give and for one additional reason,
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 207
just one, Mr. Cliairmcan, namely, that that would involve my arro-
gating unto myself the function of transmitting to the legislative de-
partment of the Government matters which are within the custody
and jurisdiction of the executive department, I decline to answer
that.
Mr. KuNziG. You decline to answer, is that it ?
My previous question was whether anyone with authority in the
Department of Justice asked you. Now I ask you did anyone ever
ask you whether you knew Armand Labis Feldman.
Mr. Glasser. The same answer.
Mr. KuNziG. Who recommended you to the United States Depart-
ment of Justice, to be employed there ?
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, again I appeal to you that if possible
this committee can see its way to what I think would be a gracious
indulgence — may that question be withdrawn?
Mr. Velde. No ; of course not. The question cannot possibly be
withdrawn because it is a very important question relative to our
Nation's security. However
Mr. Glasser. Then the answer
Mr. Velde. However, the chairman does feel that if we can agree
upon a time of 1 or 2 minutes, could the witness answer this question
in 1 or 2 minutes
Mr. Glasser. I can answer it shorter than that
Mr. Velde. In what time.
Mr. Glasser. I will just speak the name. First, I reiterate my
protest and then : The person who recommended me for employment
in the Department of Justice was the veiy distinguished professor
of constitutional law at Princeton University, Prof. Edward S. Cor-
win, who was my beloved teacher and whose name I do not wish to
apj)ear on this record.
Mr. KuKziG. Can you explain to the committee how you were em-
ployed as an attorney by the Department of Justice when you were
not a member of any bar ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I think I explained that before, but I will explain
that again. I believe that it may have been Congressman Doyle who
asked about that before.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, if you will, please.
Let the record show at this point that the fact that Professor Cor-
win approved of your application in no way reflects upon his
Mr. Glasser. Good, good.
Mr. Velde. Upon his loyalty or his affiliation with any subversive
group.
Mr. Glasser. Good. Mr. Chairman, I thank you with all sincerity
for that.
Mr. Clardy. Should not the record show, Mr. Chairman, instead,
that that is the statement of the witness which contains — so far as this
committee is concerned, there is nothing of the kind you mentioned.
Mr. Glasser. I would suggest that Chairman Velde's statement
was fairer to Professor Corwin and in accord with the actual facts.
Mr. Velde. Proceed. I think the record is clear on this.
Mr. Glasser. Do you want me to proceed with the explanation of
the attorney status?
208 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNZiG. Yes, please.
Mr. Glasser. During that period the Department of Justice ap-
propriation, it is my understanding, allowed the Department to en-
gage under the title of attorney or special attorney, as my title was,
persons who were not members of the bar, but who were professional-
ly and technically trained for purposes of research.,
Mr. KuNziG. Did you acquire civil-service status as a result of this
position ?
Mr. Glasser. I don't think so, but I am not sure. I don't think so.
Mr. KuNziG. Who recommended you for a position with the Office
of Price Administration ?
Mr. Glasser. Many, many people. Do we have to list those names
also?
Mr. KuNziG. Who from the Department of Justice where you were
just leaving?
Mr. Glasser. The principal person who recommended me was my
then superior officer, who was the Assistant Attorney General in charge
of the Antitrust Division, and who again, as in the case of Professor
Corwin and all of these names, I crave this committee shall make it
clear that these people acted in good faith. They believed me, they
believed in me, and they are good people. The man I refer to is
Thurman Arnold.
Mr. KuNziG. When you went to the Office of Price Administration,
did you there obtain civil-service status ?
Mr. Glasser. I don't think so.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you have to go through any civil-service proce-
dures to get this position ?
Mr. Glasser. Oh, yes, yes, yes. It is my understanding that in
that period, in connection with transfers of attorneys in Government
service, the Board of Legal Examiners which — the structure in some
way, both within the Department of Justice and the Civil Service
Commission, had to pass upon transfers, and it is my understanding
also that the Civil Service Commission would thereupon pass upon
actions of the Board of Legal Examiners, but that is simply my under-
standing, and I am not able to aver that as having been the law or the
organizational pattern of Government-lawyer transfers at that period.
iMr. KuNziG. You did not have any civil-service hearing at that
period when you transferred?
Mr. Glasser. At that period there was not a civil-service hearing
at which I appeared, but it was my understanding that both the Board
of Legal Examiners and the Civil Service Commission reviewed the
Department of Justice matter in detail.
Mr. KuNziG. At a later time was there another civil-service hearing
in your case ?
Mr. Glasser. There was.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain the facts of that hearing to the
committee?
Mr. Glasser. I had been — T am going to set forth only the pure
administrative facts. I am not going to be drawn into substantive
content matters. I think I have made that clear.
Tlie administrative facts were that I, having made known to the
OPA that I was going to be resigning as of the beginning of April
Mr. KuNziG. What year ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 209
Mr. Glasser. 1946 — was in the course of the usual packing of my
papers and so on, and just a few days before my resignation was to
take effect, I received written interrogatories from the Civil Service
Commission. The way that arose was that a couple of years before
that or thereabouts, OPA had routinely sent in my name along with
other OPA attorneys who had served a given number of years in the
Government for the purpose of obtaining what was called Ramspeck
status, which is a form of permanent civil-service status with the
service.
I am not familiar with that whole legal procedure, but anyway the
Civil Service Commission apparently did not get around to my case
for Ramspeck status processing until just before I was to resign in
April 1946, and it was then they sent me these interrogatories.
The interrogatories were the inception of a very whole civil-service
investigation and hearing in my case.
Mr. KuNziG. This was 4 years after your alleged clearance by the
Department of Justice.
Mr. Glasser. The clearance is not alleged, JNIr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNZiG. Well, the record speaks for itself. Would you please
continue ?
Mr. Glasser. With that understood, I will continue. This was 4
years — no, let us have the dates. October 24, 1941, to approximately
March 20, 1946. But you are leaving something out, Mr. Counsel.
You are leaving out the Supreme Court proceedings in my case.
Mr. KuNZiG. We are talking at the moment — and I asked you — about
the civil-service hearings in your case. Would you kindly continue
explaining that to the connnittee ?
Mr. Glasser. I then answered the Civil Service Commission inter-
rogatories under oath. The only testimonial declaration I now make
to this committee in that regard is that I did so answer under oath.
I specifically reserve this, that I am not now reaverring statements I
then made under oath. I am merely informing the committee my
testimonial utterance is that I answered those interrogatories under
oath. Do you
Mr. KuNZiG. I wish the chairman would ask the witness if he is
trying to say that his statements now are not under oath.
Mr. BouDiN. No; you don't understand.
Mr. Glasser. May I explain ?
INIr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. Glasser. Is it clear to the committee, although it may not be
clear to its counsel ? Is it clear to the committee ?
Mr. KuNziG. I think
Mr. Velde. You understand that you are imder oath at the present
time ?
Mr. Glasser. Oh, yes, of course. That is why I am making very
clear just what are the statements that I am now making under oath.
I don t want any ambiguity or misunderstanding as to what my state-
ments under oath are.
Mr. Kearney. I don't see how there could be, with the line of testi-
mony you have given in answer to the questions.
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Am I still answering, or is Mr. Kunzig going to put
another question?
210 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]\Ir. KuNZiG. You are still answering on the question of the civil-
service hearing that you had.
Mr. Glasser. So the interrogatories
Mr. KuxziG. If any.
Mr. Glasser (continuing). Were answered
(Representative Bernard W. Kearney left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Glasser. And then a formal hearing was held, also under oath,
as to which I make the same reservation previously stated concerning
what my testimonial utterance at this time is, and
JSIr. VELDE. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon a short recess was taken at 2:43 p. m., after which
Representatives Harold H. Velde (chairman), Bernard W. Kearney,
Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, and Clyde Doyle
reentered the hearing room.)
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point that present are Mr.
Kearney, Mr. Clardy, and Mr. Scherer ; Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, and
the chairman, a quorum. Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Glasser, I shall repeat the last question prior
to the recess which was that you continue your explanation to the
committee of the civil-service hearing.
Mr. Glasser. May I recall something to you? I don't think I
finished — I realized I did not tell you the last item in my employment
history. We trailed off on that. Would you like to have that now?
Mv. KuNziG. We will come back to that in a moment, then. Just
finish this question.
Mr. Glasser. All right. On this civil-service matter I stated inter-
rogatories w^ere sent to me. I answered them. Then here was a hear-
ing, and in that hearing I was interrogated. Then time was allowed
to me by the hearing board to file documents, additional documents.
I don't have the dates entirely clear now in my mind, but the hearing
was May 1, 1946. I was given a fairly generous period of time in
which to file documents because there would be a delay anyhow in the
preparing of the transcript of the hearing. I think I got a look at
that transcript sometime late in July or early in August, and there
were still some documents that I was waiting for from people, and
finally the Civil Service Commission, against my objections, closed
the record on September 15, 1946.
Now, there is one thing I am happy to have an opportunity to tell
this committee, as a matter of fact. The day I came into the Civil
Service Commission to look at my transcript, the officer in charge sat
by, and I asked him how soon the rating board would decide the case,
after the record was closed, there being still important documents
to come in, and he said, "Well, we will decide it the following morn-
ing; in fact, maybe that very afternoon."
From that I gathered that there was a hostile disposition in the
manner of prejudgment, since the record was not complete.
Anyway, on September 15 the record was closed, and then they
didn't decide the case the next morning or that afternoon. They held
it for, oh, 1, 2, 3, about 41/2 or 5 months. I kept calling and saying,
"Will you please hurry up and decide ? I have to submit my applica-
tion for membership to the New York bar. You are hanging me up
here. I was in good shape before you fellows came into the picture.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 211
I had a series of adjudications in my favor, including: one by the
Supreme Court of the United States. Now, will you please adjudi-
cate?" And they didn't adjudicate, and they didn't adjudicate.
Mr. Velde. By "you fellows," who do you mean ?
Mr. Glasser. The Civil Service Loyalty Rating Board.
Around the end of December of that year in phone conference
with one of the members of the Board, he asked me whether I
wanted them to drop the case. I said, "No, I want you to decide it."
He said, "All right."
Well, about another month went by, and they had again offered,
as I recall, to drop the case, and I finally accepted their offer to drop
it, on this basis, that I was going to be going before the bar examiner,
character committee of the New York bar, and I would remit myself
to them on the record theretofore made. Well, I actually signed up
for a bar preparation course in New York and attended, oh, per-
haps 10 or 15 lectures, which would carry us into the early part of
1947, but then early in the spring of 1947 I got this teaching job
at Rutgers and
Mr. KuNziG. That is where you are at the present time ?
Mr. Glasser. Yes, and therefore I never carried through wath my
application for the New York bar.
Mr. KuxziG. Do you recall who on the rating board offered to drop
the case ?
Mr. Glasser. Mr. R. J. Fenn, F-e-n-n — well, what he said to me
was, "Would you like us to drop it ?"
Mr. KuNziG. You were then not employed by the Government?
Mr. Glasser. No, no.
Mr. KuxziG. You were never then cleared by the Civil Service
Board?
Mr. Glasser. The civil-service procedure was never concluded.
Mr. KuxziG. W^ere you ever cleared by the Civil Service Com-
mission ? That is the question.
Mr. Glasser. Are you serious in asking me that ?
Mr. KuxziG. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be required
to answer the question.
_ Mr. Velde. Yes, if the witness knows, I think it is a perfectly le-
gitimate
Mr. Glasser. Well, I will tell you, I don't know. All I can say is
that I was never advised by them that I have been cleared. They
may have cleared me. That is quite possible, you know.
Mr. Cl.\rdy. Counsel, do we have the identity of the gentleman
he mentioned having said something to him about it during the
pendency of the case? Do we know who he was or who he is?
Mr. KuNZiG. If you know, would you state the position of this gen-
tleman you just named, Fenn ?
Mr. Glasser. I believe he was a member of the Loyalty Rating
Board panel which sat in my case, and it was he to whom all cor^
respondence would have been addressed in that period and so on.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, did anyone
Mr. Glasser. Incidentally, may I add something? I don't think
that Fenn was doing anything other than expressing to me what I
understood to be the feeling of that group, that they would just as soon
t]iey had never heard about this case, and apparently they were in- .
212 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
viting me to withdraw my application for Eamspeck status, and that
is what finally happened. There is nothing sinister. Fenn, I think,
is a good, conservative fellow. I don't think Fenn is in any danger
by my testimony.
Mr. KuxziG. Now, Professor, did anyone in this Civil Service hear-
ing ever ask you whether you knew Armand Labis Feldman ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. Well, now, for the reasons previously stated — and
now for one more reason — I cannot answer that question, the addi-
tional reason being that at this time I don't know to a certainty what
was in that transcript. I haven't seen that transcript since August
of 1946. I requested to be permitted to see it again a couple of weeks
ago when you people subpenaed me, and I was refused that right
Mr. KuNziG. Eef used by whom ?
Mr. Glasser. C. L. Edwards, the present head of the Civil Service
Commission. I think he is Acting Chairman or something like that.
And I protested very strongly, and he said, "These are confidential
executive department records. You have seen your transcript once — "
incidentally, the stenographic transcript was garbled — well, much of
it was gibberish. I desperately sent in to them a memorandum of
corrections at the time — but my additional reason then for not answer-
ing this question is that I don't know. I don't know for sure what
I was asked. I couldn't make a
Mv. KuNziG. I ask you once again, do you know Armand Labis
Feldman ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. Glasser. I refer to my previous answer in the record — do you
mean do you know him now ?
INIr. KuNZTG. Did you know him then and do you know him now ?
Mr. Glasser. The same answer as before, with all the protests and
reservations.
Mr. Velde. Let us divide the question.
Mr. KuxziG. Did you know him then ?
Mr. Glasser. Same answer ; that has been answered.
Mr. KuKziG. Do you know him now ?
Mr. Glasser. Same answer.
Mr. KuNziG. Did the Civil Service group questioning you at your
hearing ask you at that time whether you had ever been a member of
the Communist Party ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. (Glasser. Look, may I answer the question in this way : The
Civil Service interrogation covered everything the Department of
Justice interrogation had covered.
Mr. Walter. Did that cover this question of whether or not you
were a Communist?
Mr. Glasser. Yes, sir. It covered everything that the
Mr. KuxziG. Did they ask you whether you were a Communist
under oath ?
Mr. Glasser. Yes ; they did.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you testify under oath that you were not a
Communist?
Ml'. Glasser. In answering that question, which I am going to do^
I again reserve this, that the only testimonial declaration I am mak-
COlVUVrUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 213
ing before this committee is that it is a fact of record that on a pre-
vious date I made a certain statement. I do not at this time aver in
any manner the substance of that statement. They asked me whether
1 was a Communist. I believe they asked me whether I had ever
been a Communist. They asked me just about everything as far as
I can recall that the Department of Justice had asked me, including
the old Spanish loyalist business, and I answered all of those ques-
tions under oath.
The statement I just made, the subject and the reservation which
just preceded, concerning what my testimonial declaration was
Mr. Kearney. What was your answer to the question concerning
whether or not j'ou were a Communist or had been a Communist ?
Mr. Glasser. Again subject to the same reservation, I swore to the
Civil Service Commission that I was not and never had been a Com-
munist.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you swear to the Department of Justice that you
were not and never had been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Glasser. Well, I think you know.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. That is not an answer. The witness
is directed to answer the question.
Mr. Glasser. The Department of Justice findings, as you know —
you read it — state that I was not a
Mr. KuNziG. That is not the question. I ask that the chairman
direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. BouDiisr. What is the question ?
Mr. Glasser. Whether they asked me whether I was. The Depart-
ment of Justice finding which you read states that I made denials.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you make those denials under oath?
Mr. Glasser. ?n^ow, I can't recall. I honestly can't recall because
this was a departmental proceeding let me say this: The state-
ments were made either under oath or in contemplation of the Federal
false statement statute, which would make the statements punishable
if false, as you know.
May I just interject
Mr. Yelde. I still think. Professor, that you have not answered
the question directly.
Mr. Glasser. I don't recall whether there was a formal oath ad-
ministered to me, but I was pointing out that it is not of consequence
since in any view of the matter the Federal false statement statute
would have been applicable. You are all familiar with that.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I have a document before me marked
"Exhibit 4" for identification, which I should like to read into the
record :
Department of Justice personnel recommendation (non-civil-service) Abraham
Glasser. Date .July 31. 1941.
Present status: Special attorney, suspension. Salary, $3,000. Proposed ac-
tion — •
it goes down under remarks, and I will read the material portion.
Mr. Glasser is to be returned to pay status effective August 1, 1941. Respect-
fully submitted, Thurman Arnold, Assistant Attorney General.
I should like to offer this exhibit into evidence.
Mr. BouDiN. Could I see it, please ?
Mr. Velde. It will be received.
214 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
]VIr. BouDiN. May I see it ?
(Department of Justice personnel recommendation marlved and re-
ceived as Glasser exhibit No. 4.)
Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked "Exhibit 5" for iden-
tification. It is the same type of form, personnel reconnnendation,
non-civil-service, Department of Justice. Abraham Glasser, October
30, 1941.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, counsel.
Will you repeat your last statement for counsel? Counsel for the
witness was examining
Mr. KuNziG. I have here personnel recommendation, non-civil-serv-
ice. Department of Justice, the same type of form as exhibit 4, marked
"Exhibit 5."
Abraham filassev. Date. October ?,0, 1941.
Present status, special attorney, ,$?>,000, Antitrust Division. Proposed action —
and then under No. 13, typed in, it says :
Dropped from the roll, close of business, October 31, 1941.
But that is crossed out, Mr. Chairman, and written across in hand-
writing it says,
Resignation without prejudice.
Under "Remarks" it states :
Mr. Glasser's resignation is attached. It is recommended that it be accepted
without prejudice. Mr. (41asser is accepting a position with the Office of I'rice
Administration.
Respectfully submitted.
Thurman Arnold,
Assistant Attorney General.
JNIr. KuNziG. I should like to offer Exhibit 5 into evidence, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Velde. It will be received. That is Glasser exhibit 5,
(Department of Justice personnel recommendation marked and re-
ceived as Glasser exhibit No. 5.)
INIr. Clardy. Counsel, may I inquire ? You said "crossed out." Do
you mean merely that it had a line, a light line, drawn through the
typewriting?
INIr. KuxziG. It seems as if the document has been changed and
altered and made to read, "Resignation without prejudice."
Mr. Clardy. Well, what I meant was, it does not make the orig-
inal typewriting illegible in any way whatever. It merely has some
additional words written above and below with a light line drawn
through the typewriting.
]\Ir. KuNziG. That is correct.
Mr. Glasser. Is there any imputation that I or anyone, with my
knowledge and consent, tampered in an unlawful or improper manner
with the official records concerning my leaving the Department of
Justice?
Mr. Clardy. I was not addressing any questions to you at all.
Mr. Glasser. No, no, I knoAv, Mr. Clardy. I am raising it in line
with Mr.— I think, Mr. Chairman, please, would you ask counsel
to
Mr. Veldk. Professor, you are here to give testimony and not to
question.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 215
Mr. Glasser. I know, I am giving testimony now.
Mr. KuNziG. I have before me another document marked "Exhibit
6" for identification, which is the United States Civil Service Com-
mission statement of Federal service. Among other items on this
statement, under the date of October 31, 1941, it is marked "resignation
without prejudice (voluntary) " and then the words "another position"
appear after the listing of the witness' Department of Justice service
and prior to the listing of his OPA service.
I should like to offer exhibit 6 into evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. It will be received, Glasser exhibit No. 6.
(Civil Service Commission statement of Federal service marked
and received as Glasser exhibit No. 6.)
Mr. KuNziG. I should like to point out for the record that on No-
vember 1, 1941, the next day, the witness went to the Office of Price
Administration, and that that was prior to the final approval given
under the initials F. B. of the action taken in the Department of
Justice. I should also like to point out for the record that the word
in the Civil Service Commission appears, "voluntary resignation
without prejudice," in spite of the record already in evidence which
shows that the witness was asked to resign by the Department of
Justice, which would be far from voluntary.
Mr. Glassek. Mr. Chairman, may I — counsel has commented. Now
may I please have one brief comment opportunity. I won't be im-
polite, and I won't be lengthy. I merely wanted to say that it is
evident to me in all earnestness and respect — it is evident to me that
in this hearing I am on trial, and not only I, but the entire admin-
istration of the National Government which was in office during the
late thirties, middle forties, and it is just what we thought would
happen. This is an attack on the New Deal.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Glasser
Mr. Walter. Does that include the Democratic Members of
Congress ?
Mr. Glasser. I think there are some Democratic Members of Con-
gress who don't remember the New Deal with fondness, sir.
Mr. Walter. I don't believe it. I don't know how they
Mr. Glasser. I said with fondness, sir.
Mr. Velde. May I assure you again that we are not interested in
belittling the New Deal or any other deal or any other administra-
tion. We are interested in facts. We want the facts of your con-
nections with the Communist Party. We want the facts of your
connection with any espionage ring, and again we would appreciate
very much if you would answer the questions instead of continual!"
giving lectures to this committee.
Mr. Glasser. Well, I await further questions. Mr. Kunzig, at any
time are you going to bring out the Supreme Court proceedings ? If
not, may I please ask for an opportunity to do that?
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that the witness
be reminded that we are asking him the questions, not he us.
Mr. Glasser. I realize that.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Kunzig.
]Mr. Kunzig. Professor Glasser, immediately after this committee —
and I feel courteously — agreed to a request for a continuance last
week because your attornej^'s wife was ill, you released to the press a
30172— 53— pt. 2 7
216 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
50-page printed pamphlet which yon hai)pened to have on hand, ex-
phaining your position in this matter. The brief, however, never
mentions your name. Interestingly enough, it mentions no name,
but refers'to a Professor A. Citizen. I want to ask you, are you the
Professor A. Citizen mentioned in the pamphlet?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
Mr. KuxziG. Can there be any question as to whether you are the
Professor A. Citizen ?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr. Boudin.)
jNIr. Glasser. Yes, your question cannot be answered in the form
in which it was put, Mr. Kunzig.
Mr. Clardy. Do you want to show him a copy, counsel ?
Mr. Kunzig. I show you a copy marked "Glasser exhibit 7" for
identification
Mr, Glasser. Let me explain what I mean.
Mr. Kunzig. I will give him the exact one. This one is in book
form, bound. You have seen this, have you not? I presume you
know about it.
Mr. Glasser. What is your next question ?
Mr. Kunzig. Have you seen this document I am handing you?
Mr. Glasser. Xo proper legislative purpose. You know the an-
swer to that.
Mr. Kunzig. I ask that the Avitness be directed to answer the ques-
tion whether he has ever seen •
Ml-. Gi^ssER. Yes, I have seen it.
Mr. Kunzig. You have seen the exhibit No. 7 so marked for identi-
fication. I ask you whether you are the Professor A. Citizen referred
to in that printed document which you distributed to the press.
Mr. Glasser. If you will stop your question at whether I am the
Professor A. Citizen referred to. I will answer it.
Mr. Kunzig. Are you attempting to deny that you distributed it to
the press ?
Mr, Glasser. My point is this, the distribution to the press— —
Mr. Walter. Never mind your point,
Mr. Glasser. Had already occurred by hands other than mine be-
fore I got to Washington. That is the point.
Mr, Velde. Will you please answer the question? The question is
very simple.
Mr, Glasser. All right. My answer is as follows : I am the Pro-
fessor A. Citizen referred to in that document, which document was
distributed to the press unconditionally by persons other than myself
in New Jersey.
Mr. Kunzig. Who distributed it down here at the hearing last
week?
Mr. Glasser. Distribution
Mr, Clardy. Just outside the door.
Mr. Glasser. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. People from New Jersey ?
ISIr. Gi^vssER. No, no : now I will answer that question. I distributed
it to the press after the hearing last week.
Mr. Clardy. Will you hand it back now ?
Mr, Glasser. Certainly. Did you Avant another copy ?
Mr, Clardy. One is sufficient, I assure you.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 217
Mr. Walter. I would like to have one, because honestly I threw
mine in the Avastebasket.
Mr, BouDiN. If you threw yours in the wastepaper basket, Con-
gressman-
Mr. KuNziG. I RUOfo;est that counsel refrain from commenting.
Mr. Velde. According to previous order.
Mr. Glasser. I will ask my counsel to mail you one, Mr. Con-
gressman
Mr. Walter. No ; I will borrow one from Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Glasser. No ; I will ask my counsel to mail you one.
Mr. BouDiN. If the Congressman will withdraw his remark about
throwing it in the wastepaper basket, I will give him one,
ISIr, Walter, That is actually what I did with it.
Mr, BouDiN, It is actually not polite to say, I am very sorry,
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr, Kunzig.
Mr. Gl.\sser. I await further questions.
Mr, Doyle. Wouldn't you feel more rested. Witness, if you would
sit down? I notice you are standing on one foot first and then the
other, and I am wondering — —
Mr. Glasseh. Well, sir, I am much better on my feet than what I
would be on if I sat down.
Mr. Kunzig. Professor, did you at any time attempt to get back
into the Department of Justice?
(At this point Mr. Glasser conferred with Mr, Boudin,)
Mr, Glasser. Can you point that question in time ?
Mr. Kunzig. After the time in which you were asked to resign from
the Department of Justice, did you ever try to get back ?
Mr. Glasser. After the time when I resigned without prejudice from
the Department of Justice, I did initiate an inquiry as to my being
reinstated, if only on a nominal basis, so that the record could be
completely cleared that I had gone back to the Department, all this
with a view to my preparing for private practice. That effort which
was initiated occurred in the fall of 1945, and I never made formal
application — I will tell you why — word came back through the same
office that had prosecuted this matter — not the office which had ad-
judicated it — but the same office in the Department which had prose-
cuted it — from which Judge Holtzoff's document of today emanated,
the cops in the case had the decision, the officials — the judges were
ignored — and the word came back then that my application, my
informal application, was not viewed very encouragingly, so it dropped
there.
Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Chairman, I have a document in front of me
marked "Exhibit 8" for identification, which I should like to read
into the record.
Mr. Boudin. Excuse me, do you have a 7 ?
Mr. Kunzig. Exhibit 7 was your book ; 7 is your printed publication.
Exhibit 8, Office of Price Administration, Washington, D. C, July
3, 1944 : This is a letter to the Honorable James P. McGranery, as-
sistant to the Attorney General, Department of Justice, Washington,
D. C. It is signed by Thomas I. Emerson, Deputy Administrator for
Enforcement, Office of Price Administration.
This is July 3, 1944.
218 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dear Mr. McGranery : The amendments to the Price Control Act just en-
acted will create a new and important litigation problem in connection with
criminal prosecutions of price and representative control violations. The amend-
ments make available to a criminal defendant a new procedure whereby the
entire proceeding may be stayed until the validity of the OPA regulation in-
volved has been finally settled by the Emergency Court of Appeals and the Su-
preme Court. In the interests of developing proper legal precedents, this office
will probably desire to participate in tlie United States attorney's early cases
in which the new stay procedure will be invoked. Conferences have already
been had by representatives of this office with officials of the criminal division.
From time to time in the near future as these new stay proceedings arise, we
shall be requesting the Department of Justice to designate attorneys from
OPA's litigation division to serve as special assistants to the Attorney General
for the purpose of participating in such proceedings.
Tlie particular occasion for this letter is to inquire whether the Department
would be willing to designate as a special assistant for these purposes one of
our litigation attorneys, Abraham Glasser, should this office desire in the future
to request such designation for Mr. Glasser. Some months ago Mr. Glasser was
refused designation as a special assistant. I understand that Mr. Ugo Carusi
is familiar with the circumstances which led to the Department's refusal to
designate Mr. Glasser at that time. It would seriously handicap the work of
this office in connection with the new stay procedure for criminal cases if Mr.
Glasser should be unavailable for court appearances in these cases. He is our
litigation expert on the provisions of the Price Control Act which are affected
by the new amendments providing for stays in criminal cases. If the Depart-
ment should advise me that it will continue in the future to be unwilling to
approve Mr. Glasser's designation on a formal basis, I should appreciate your
giving consideration to the possibility of working out some other form of authori-
zation, short of formal designation, whereby Mr. Glasser's services could be
utilized for court appearances in these cases. The effective date of the new
amendments to our act is July. 1 so that applications by criminal defendants for
stays under the new procedure may be expected to begin at any time. In view
of the time element I ask that you advise me at your earliest convenience what
would be the Department's attitude on this matter should we desire to request
authorization, formal or otherwise, permitting use of Mr, Glasser's service in
these cases.
Very truly yours,
Thomas I. Emerson,
Deputy Administrator for Enforcement.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, you see, that was not an application
for reinstatement. That was the familiar procedure whereby the
Department of Justice designates attorneys pro tern as temporary
assistants. Now, when you put your previous question to me, frankly
it did not occur to me to recall this. This episode did occur, but it
was not in the nature of my getting reinstated by the Department of
Justice. It was purely one of these interagency lawyer cooperation
things. That is all it was.
Mr. KuNziG. I offer this document in evidence as Glasser exhibit
No. 8.
Mr. Velde. It will be received.
INIr. Walter. May I ask a question at this point: When were you
admitted to the bar ?
Mr, Glasser. I was admitted to the bar, sir, in March or April of
1989, probably April 1939.
Mr. Walter. 1939. Did you try any cases between that time and
the 3d of July, 1944?
Mr. Glasser. Oh, yes ; I had
Mr, Walter. Wliere ?
Mr. Glasser. I had numerous
Mr. Walter. Where!
Mr. Glasser. "Where?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 219
Mr. Walter. In the District of Columbia ?
Mr. Glasser. All over the country.
Mr. Walter. For the Department of Justice ?
Mr. Glasser. No ; for the OPA. I didn't try cases ; I argued ap-
peals and legal motions. I was not a trial lawyer. I was an appel-
late lawyer.
Mr. Walter. This letter indicated that you were a trial expert.
That is why I asked the question.
Mr. Glasser. Well, expert in the litigation involving the stay appli-
cations which involved questions of law primarily rather than ques-
tions of proof of fact through witnesses.
Mr. Walter. "WTiat was your salary at the OPA ?
Mr. Glasser. You mean when I left? I started out at $3,200, I
think, and I ended up with the war increments, etc., and promotions,
at a little over $7,000. That was in a period of 5 years.
Mr. Walter. Who recommended you for your promotion in the
OPA?
Mr. Glasser. I stated that before, sir. I stated that before.
Mr. Walter. I did not hear it.
Mr. KuxziG. Thurman Arnold was the answer given.
I now have before me a document marked "Exhibit 9" for identifica-
tion, wliich I should like to read into the record. This is from the
Department of Justice, signed James P. McGranery, the assistant to
the Attorney General, dated July 7, 1944, 4 days after the previous
letter.
It is addressed to Mr. Thomas I. Emerson, Deputy Administrator
for Enforcement, Office of Price Administration, Washington, D. C,
Deau Me. Emerson: Replying to your letter of July 3. I regret to say that
it will not be possible to comply with your request for the designation of Abraham
Glasser as a special assistant to the Attorney General for the purpose of appear-
ing in court, as stated in your letter.
I have discussed this matter with Mr. Tom Clark, of our Criminal Division,
and he advises me that his field offices are prepared to take care of this new
procedure authorized by Congress.
Sincerely,
James P. McGbaneey,
The Assistant to the Attorney General.
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, will the record ever show today that
the Department of Justice designated me to argue a case before the
Supreme Court for the Solicitor General's office in January of 1946?
Mr. Velde. Well, let me say to the witness that there is a matter
being discussed on the floor of the House, a matter of legislation in
which the members of the committee are very vitally interested, and
I believe that at this time, if the counsel does not have further questions
or if this is a good breaking off point, that we will have to recess and
continue these hearings.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, may we put one more document in
evidence which will be very short?
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. BouDiN. May I ask when you would recess to, Mr. Velde, or
would that be an indefinite date?
Mr. Velde. Subject to call of the Chair.
Mr. Glasser. Pardon me, not tomorrow ?
Mr. BouDiN. No.
220 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked "Exhibit 10," for
identification. Prior to reading that I should like to offer exhibit 9
into evidence.
Mr. Velde. That is Glasser exhibit 9. It will be received in
(Letter dated JulyT, 1944, signed by James P. McGranery, marked
and received as Glasser exhibit No. 9.)
Mr. KuNziG. Exhibit 10, office memorandum, United States Govern-
ment, to a
Mr. BouDiN. Wliat is the date of that, please ?
Mr. KuNziG. November 15, 1945. From H. A. Bergsom. Subject:
Abraham Glasser's request for re-employment. It is initialed H. A. B.
In accordance with your request, I interviewed Mr. Glasser on the afternoon
of November 18. Mr. Glasser was accompanied by his attorney, Charles A.
Horsky, H-o-r-s-k-y, Esq. The files disclose that in June, 1941, Mr. Glasser was
emplo.ved as a special attorney in the Antitrust Division. He was suspended on
June 17, 1941, i)ending investigation of complaints charging him with being a
member of and furnishing information to the Communist Party. He was ac-
corded a hearing, and at the conclusion thereof, the hearing hoard found the
charge that Mr. Glasser was a Communist unfounded, that he did not knowingly
and disloyally furnish information to any ill-intentioned outsider, but that he
was negligent in his treatment of the contents of official files and papers of the
Department of Justice. It was recommended that because of his careless and
improper disclosure of official information, his suspension should be terminated
as of the close of business on July 31, 1941, and that he should be given the op-
portunity to resign without prejudice effective at the close of business on
October 31, 1941.
This recommendation was effected, and Mr. Glasser was permitted to resign
without prejudice. Since that time he has been employed by the OflBce of Price
Administration and now wishes to be reemployed by the Department in order
to clear his name.
He states that he wishes employment for only a brief period of time and that
Assistant Attorney General P.erge has told him that he has a place for him
if it is decided to reemploy him. He submitted a letter of recommendation ad-
dressed to the Attorney General by Mr. George Moncharsh, Deputy Admin-
istrator for Enforcement of the Office of Price Administration, and copies of
letters of recommendation addressed to the regional director, Office of Surplus
Properties, New York, N. Y., all of which are attached.
After discussing the matter with Mr. Glasser and his attorney and examining
his file, I do not believe that he should be reemployed merely for the purpose,
as he says, of clearing his name. He freely admits that he negligently and care-
lessly handled department files, and this was the ground for requesting his
resignation. It seems to me that if this was a valid ground for requesting his
resignation, it is an equally valid reason for refusing to reemploy him. Conse-
quently, I recommend that Mr. Glasser's request be denied and that he be not
reemployed for any length of time.
Then written in handwriting at the bottom. "I concur in your rec-
ommendation," and initials that are a little difficult to read. It looks
like J. McG, but
Mr. Glasser. Mr. Chairman, you see — incidentally, this is news to
me because these people smiled and smiled and smiled to me — Shake-
speare says, "Smiled and smiled like a villain." I did not know they
were the ones who turned me down. I thought they were — you see
Mr. Velde. Mr. Glasser, may I again remind you that you are here,
as a witness.
Mr. Glasser. I know. I did not intend any intrusion.
Mr. Velde. I would appreciate it if you would just answer the
questions.
Mr. Glasser. I was just a little bit startled at this.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 221
Mr. KuNziG. I offer exliibit 10 in evidence as Glasser exhibit 10,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walter. Whose initials were they ?
Mr. KuNziG. J. McG. It looks like Mr. McGranery's initials.
Mr. Velde. Yes ; Glasser exhibit No. 10 will be admitted.
(Office memorandum. United States Government, marked and re-
ceived as Glasser exhibit No. 10.)
Mr. Velde. At this time, before I declare a recess or adjournment,
for the information of the press and the public, I am authorized by
the committee to make the following statement :
In relation to the appearance of Abraham Glasser, professor in
the Rutgers University School of Law, the committee wishes to
acknowledge and express its appreciation to Rutgers University and
its officials for the excellent cooperation it has extended the committee.
The committee wishes to state that it hopes that the excellent spirit of
cooperation exhibited by this outstanding university might serve as a
model to other colleges and other universities in the United States.
There has been no implication nor misunderstanding that the com-
mittee, in hearing Mr. Glasser, has in any manner instituted or con-
ducted any investigation of Rutgers University. One of the most
forthright and objective statements made by any educator concerning
the committee's investigation in the field of education was made by
the president of Rutgers University, entitled "Academic Freedom
and Civic Responsibility," which every detractor in this field should
read.
Mr. BouDix. Every what was that, sir?
Mr. Walter. Detractor.
Mr. Velde. Which every detractor in this field should read.
Mr. Glasser. May I say
Mr. Velde. No ; the committee will now stand in adjournment until
further call by the chairman, and your subpena is continued, Mr.
Glasser.
(Whereupon, at 3 : 30 p. m., the hearing was adjourned until further
call by the Chair.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(Education— Part 2)
TUESDAY, APRIL 14, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee
ON Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. C.
public hearing
Tlie subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to call, at 10:45 a. m., in the caucus room, 362 Old
House Otlice Buildino-, Hon. Harold H. Velcle (chairman), presiding.
Connnittee members present : Representatives Harold H. Velde, Kit
Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, and Francis E. Walter.
Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig and Frank S. Tavenner,
Jr., counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Raphael I. Nixon,
director of research; and Donald T. Appell, investigator.
Mr. Velde. The hearing will be in order.
Lei the record show that present are Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr.
Walter, the chairman. Mr. Velde. and that I have appointed a sub-
committee of the full connnittee consisting of the members present
for the purposes of this hearing.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNzio. Will Daniel Fine please step forward?
Would you stand and be sworn ?
Mr. Velde. ^^'ill you raise your right hand?
In tlie testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee,
do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. P^iNE. I do.
Mr. KuNZKi. Are you represented by counsel?
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL FINE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
MARSHALL PERLIN
Dr. Fine. I am.
Mr. KuNzro. AVould counsel please state his name and address for
the record?
Mr. Perlix. The name is Marshall — M-a-r-s-h-a-1-1 — Perlin —
p-e-r-l-i-n— 104 East 40th. New York, N. Y.
Mr. KuNzio. Dr. Fine, would you please state your full name and
present address?
Dr. Fine. ]My name is Daniel Fine. I live at 721 Huntington Ave-
nue, Boston, Mass.
223
224 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Are you at the present time a medical doctor?
Dr. Fine. That is correct. I am a physician.
Mr. KuNziG. Physician,
The correct name, then, is Dr. Daniel Fine; is that right?
Dr. Fine. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Fine, when and where were you born?
Dr. P'lNE. I Avas born in New York City, February 11, 1924.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you kindly outline for the committee your edu-
cational background ?
Dr. Fixe. I attended grammar school and high school in New York
City.
In 1941 I entered Yale University, and in 1944 graduated from the
Sheffield Scientific School with a bachelor of science, with honors.
During attendance at Yale University I was elected to Sigma Xi,
which is an honorary scholastic scientific fraternity.
Thereafter, after a lapse of 2 yeai-s, in 1946, I entered the Yale
School of Medicine. During my time at the Yale School of Medicine
1 was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha, which is an honorary scholastic
fraternity of medical students, and, in addition to that, during my
third year I received the Ramsey Memorial Scholarship prize, which
is given for a student after his first year of clinical medicine — for a
student of unquestioned ability and character.
Mr. Perlin. Excuse me just a minute. I would appreciate, Mr.
Chairman, if there were no flash bulbs during the testimony. It
bothers the witnesses and he asked me not to have them,
Mr. Velde. Yes. Will the
Mr. Perlin. So, I would like to have them desist during the testi-
mony.
Mr. Velde (addressing news photographers). Will you please take
your pictures now and desist ?
Dr. Fine. I was saying that in 1950 I was graduated with the degree
of M. D. from the Yale School of Medicine.
Since that time I have been in training at the Boston Hospital, first
as a house officer, second year as a junior assistant resident in medi-
cine, and during my third year, present year, as a senior assistant
resident in medicine.
Mr. KuNziG. What is the name of that Boston hospital?
Dr. Fine. Peter Bent Brigham Hospital.
Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Fine, is that the conclusion of the educational
background ?
Woukl you then set forth such as may have been your employment
backgi'ound up to the present time ^
Were you studying during the entire time or were you employed at
various times, in addition — = —
Dr. Fine. Well, teclmically, during hospital training one is em-
ployed by the hospital to give service to patients in the hospital.
Mr. KuNziG. Is there any other employment? Did you work at any
other place while studying or anything of that nature ?
Dr. Fine. In 1942 — I believe it was the sununer — I worked for about
2 months at the Calco Chemical Co.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that for the reporter?
Dr. Fine. C-a-1-c-o Chemical C'o., ])roducing sulfa drugs for the
servicemen who were overseas at the time.
Mr. KuNziG. I see.
COIVIAIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 225
Any other part-time employment ?
Dr. Fine. Not that I recall.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your military service, if there was
any?
Dr. Fine. In 1944, of July, I entered the Navy as an apprentice
seaman. I attended recruit training at Sampson, N. Y., and thereafter
I was selected to attend midshipmen's school, which I attended at
Notre Dame University, for about 4 months, the last part of 1944 and
the first part of 1945.
I might say that while there I received a prize for the first rank in
the class in damage control, whicli was one of the courses there.
Thereafter I attended line officers' school, tactical radar school,
fighters' direction school in Florida and down at St. Simons, down
in Georgia, and in September 1945 I was ordered to a destroyer, the
U. S. S. Laffey^ 72If, and I boarded the Lafey in Hawaii.
Thereafter I was on sea duty for about 8 or 9 months and subsequent
from that I was separated from my ship and about 2 months later,
in 1946, July, I was separated from active duty in the Navy.
JNIr. KuNziG. Would you list any organizations or clubs in which
you liold membership or may have held membership while you were
at college or in medical school?
Dr. Fine. ]\Iight I ask what the pertinence of that question is?
That seems to be an all-inclusive question, and I don't quite see the
relevance to this inquiry.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
answer the question.
Mr. Peiilin. Mr. Chairman, may I
Mr. Velde. Well, just
jNIr. Perlin. Excuse me.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. I think you have been advised of the
Mr. Perlin. Beg pardon.
Mr. Velde. I think you have been advised of the rights you have to
confer with your client, haven't you?
Mr. Perlin. Tliat is right. I was just wondering whether, to facili-
tate this — 1 was just going to make a suggestion for your considera-
tion. If you don't want me to, I will hold back the suggestion.
Mr. Velde. Go ahead and make your suggestion.
Mr. Perlin. I was going to suggest that perhaps it would facilitate
it, rather than ask such a broad question, if the questions may be more
specific in character.
Mr. Velde. Yes, Mr. Counsel, make your questions more specific.
Mr. KuNziG. All right, Mr. Chairman.
Have you ever participated in the activities of a Marxist study
group, either as a member or an attendant at Marxist lectures.
Dr. Fine. Is that directed to the chairman ?
Mr. KuNziG. No; it is directed to you.
Dr. Fine. Will you repeat the question, please ?
Mr. KuNZiG. Have you ever participated in the activities of a Marx-
ist study group, either as a member of or as an attendant at Marxist
lectures ?
Dr. Fine. Mr. Chairman, I would like to decline to answer that
question, and I would like to decline to answer that question for the
following reasons — and I would like to state them in full for the benefit
of the committee and for anyone else :
226 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
In the first place, I decline to answer that question because it is of-
fensive to the Bill of Rights, as I understand it, as I learned in my
schooling in New York City and later in my college training. In par-
ticular, it is offensive to the first amendment to the Constitution,
which guarantees to every citizen the right of freedom of speech, of
freedom of assembly, and of freedom of the press; and I would like
to say there that this is a freedom which is meaningful and has been
extremely meaningful to all Americans insofar as there has not been
coercion attached to expressing one's personal views, matters of the
heart
Mr. Velde. The committee
Dr. Fine. Or matters of the mind.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Has granted you the privilege-
Dr. Fine. I would like to go on, Mr. Chairman, if I may, to com-
plete the answer to that question.
This is a meaningful right insofar as there
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt a moment ?
Dr. Fine. Is no coercion.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt?
;Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. The witness is not answering the question. He can
state precisely and concisely whether he is relying on the fifth amend-
ment or not, and beyond that he should not be permitted to argue.
I request the Chair to so direct him.
Mr. Velde. Yes.
You have been given an opportunity to answer a question which is
very simple as to your association or as to your membership in various
organizations.
Dr. Fine. Mr. Chairman, I am answering that question, and I am
answering that question to the best of my ability.
Mr. Velde. You may
Dr. Fine. I would like to state the grounds for my refusal to an-
swer that question, and I think it is an intrusion on my rights before
this committee to prevent me from stating my reasons in full.
Mr. Velde. Now, we have heard all of these things before many,
many times.
Dr. Fine. I would still
Mr. Velde. The question is very simple. It is very easily under-
stood.
Dr. Fine. I have stated, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Velde. The question was whether you belonged to a Marxist
group, a study group. You can answer that either "Yes" or "No," or
you can refuse to answer it.
Dr. Fine. I am not refusinsr, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Now, I am asking you to do that at the present time
Dr. Fine. I am declining
Mr. Velde (continuing). Because we must get on with these
hearings.
Dr. Fine. I am declining to answer that question, and I am stating
my ground, and I would like to have the opportunity, the courtesy
of this committee, to state my grounds in full.
Mr. Velde. You have been given every courtesy by the committee.
Dr. Fine. I have been interrupted, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Velde. All the members
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION ( EDUCATION ) 227
Dr. Fine. On three occasions already.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Of the committee have other business,
which is very important, too, and we can't be delayed by this continual
liarangue.
Now, will you answer the question ?
Mr. Perlin. Mr. Chairman, he just wishes to state
Mr. Velde. Now, Counsel
Mr, Perlin. The legal gi'ounds on which
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, you know your rights in this.
Mr. Perlin. I just want to explain that he wants to deal with legal
gi'ounds, on which he is asserting
Mr. Velde. Will you answer the question, Mr. Witness ?
Dr. Fine. I answered it. I am declining to answer that question.
I am declining on the basis of the first amendment. Secondarily,
I am declining on the basis of the fifth amendment, which guarantees
to every citizen the right not to bear witness against himself in matters
of this sort.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, before we go into that, Mr, Chairman, may
1 ask a question concerning the first amendment?
Mr. Velde, Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. Do you feel under the first amendment it is an abridge-
ment of 3'our freedom, right of freedom, of speech, to be a member
of an organization directed to the purpose of overthrowing this
Government ?
Dr. Fine. I believe that it is a matter of defense which Is protected
by the first amendment.
Mr. Walter. What do you mean "a matter of defense" ?
You are not charged with anything.
Dr. Fine. The first amendment was placed in the Constitution to
defend citizens against any misuse of governmental authority, and
in that sense it is a defense of the citizen. It is also a spear of the
citizen which allows the citizen, if he wishes, to criticize the Govern-
ment, to criticize governmental policy, and to dissent, if he chooses.
I will go on to say this is complemented by the fifth amendment,
which is
Mr. Walter. Well, we are not going
Dr. Fine (continuing). The shield of the citizen.
Mr. Walter (continuing). Into the fifth amendment until I ascer-
tain whether or not you believe you have a right, had a right, to partici-
pate in a movement that was designed to overthrow this Government.
Dr. Fine. Mr. Walter, I believe you are making assumptions. You
have no right to make these assumptions. I have seen no evidence
brought forth before this committee. I Avas asked a question. I am
declining to answer that question.
Mr. Walter. Well, were you
Dr. Fine. If you have any evidence-
Mr. Walter (continuing). A member of such organization?
Dr. Fine. I have declined to answer that question. I have stated
my grounds on the basis of the first amendment, on the basis of the
fifth amendment. I have stated what I mean by these things.
I also wish to decline to answer that question on other grounds.
Mr. Walter. Well, the fact of the matter is you are declining to
answer because you have been a member of organizations that were
228 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
erected for the purpose of attempting to overthrow this Government ;
is that the fact?
Dr. Fine. If you have-
Mr. Walter. That is why you are not^
Dr. Fine. Any evidence of that fact, Mr. Walter, I would ask you
to bring that forth here in this hearing at this moment. If you have
any informers, or any political spies, or anything of that sort, which
have given you this evidence, I ask that they be brought forth at the
same time, and that I and my comisel may be given the right to cross-
examine these individuals, and then that I be confronted with what-
ever evidence you may find.
Mr. Velde. Dr. Fine, if j'ou will answer the question and not refuse
to answer it — if you will answer the question that was put to you by
counsel — then I will be glad to give you every opportunity to state
your political beliefs, or anything else you want to state. Just answer
the question "Yes" or "No," truthfully.
Mr. Perlin. Wliat was
Dr. Fine. I have declined to answer that question. I liave stated
my grounds. I have stated my grounds at length. I believe this is
the right of every citizen, and I resent the coercion of this committee
in compelling me or attempting to compel me to answer a question of
conscience and a question which I am protected from answering under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Clardy. If you were not such a member, is there any possibility
that you can explain to this committee that you might be convicted
of some crime or of some other offense
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Mr. Clardy (continuing). If you were not a member of such an
organization ?
(Dr. Fine continued to confer with Mr. Perlin.)
Mr. Clardy (continuing). If so, tell me how that is possible.
(Dr. Fine continued to confer with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. Would you repeat your question, please?
Mr. Clardy. It is very simple. If you are not or never have been a
member of an organization dedicated to the destruction of this Gov-
ernment, would a denial of membership in that organization, in your
opinion, in some way, incriminate you ?
Dr. Fine. I would like to say it has been clearly shown and has
been the opinion of many justices in our country, of many legal au-
thorities, it has been the historical background of the fifth amend-
ment, that is a protection against bearing witness against one's self.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, you
Dr. Fine. It is a protection afforded
Mr. Walter (continuing). Haven't shown
Dr. Fine. May I finish, please?
It is a protection afforded primarily to the innocent. Its intention
is to protect the innocent, and I will say that in these times of hysteria
and fear, which I consider this committee to be largely responsible
in this atmosphere of fear, which Justice Douglas has called the black
silence of fear, in this atmosphere of informers, many times or almost
always unreliable, in this atmosphere of political spies, and things of
that sort, I think there is every ground to believe that an answer to
some of the questions put by this committee might under these cir-
cumstances bring forth some sort of prosecution.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 229
Mr. Clardt. If you-
Mr. Walter. Were you^
Mr, Clardy. Were to answer any of those questions
Dr. Fine. And I would say
Mr. Clardy. In that connection, do you so apprehend-
Dr. Fine. And I would say the case of Mr. Lattimore is a prime
example of that.
jNIr. Clardy. You are defending Mr. Lattimore, I take it?
Dr. Fine. I am not in a position to defend Mr. Lattimore.
Mr. Clardy. Why did you bring it in, then ?
Dr. Fine. I believe his example is a prime example of a citizen who
is being persecuted and prosecuted on the flimsiest grounds, which in-
volves the interpretation of this committee and of committees
Mr. Walter. Well, now-
Dr. Fine. Like it, as to what
Mr. Clardy. May I
Dr. Fine. The person's beliefs are, and what the meaning of those
beliefs are.
This committee never had the right to impress on the American
people what its conception of the right way to think is, and I deny
that right here at this moment.
(Representative Morgan M. Moulder entered the hearing room at
this point.)
Mr. Walter. Well, you haven't shown any reluctance at all in
telling us of your membership in other organizations. As a matter
of fact, you have been boasting about it. Now, why is it you all
of a sudden become so hesitant
Dr. Fine. I would like to say, first of all, I think that is extremely
unfair. I wasn't boasting. I was asked my educational background,
and I so stated.
Mr. Walter. You were asked your educational background
Dr. Fine. And I so stated.
Mr. Walter. But vou weren't asked about any organizations, were
you?
Dr. Fine. Now, I would like to go on.
It seems to me, in certain areas in which this committee is par-
ticularly concerned and disturbed, that there shouldn't be any dis-
agreement with the ideas of what is correct, what is standard, what the
authority of this committee is. In those areas, there is a very serious
problem for the serious citizen, the citizen who takes his responsi-
bilities seriously and believes it is his right and his duty to criticize,
to dissent where his conscience tells him thus.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, are you sitting there in fear and trembling
at the actions of this committee this morning ?
Are you intimidated or have you been intimidated at any point ?
Dr. Fine. I am not trembling for myself, but I will say, in answer
to that question, I have great trepidation for the American people,
for the medical profession, and for the teaching profession; and if I
may, I would like to read here
Mr. Walter. Before you go
Dr. Fine. At this time.
Mr. Walti:r. I am going to interrupt you at this point, because I
have a great regard for the medical profession, coming from a family
230 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
of doctors, who were not members of the Communist Party at the
same time.
Now, what is there about this questioning that in anywise affects
the freedom of action of any doctor, and why is it that the fact that
you are being interrogated is used by you to make it appear as if this
committee was attempting to do something to the medical profession 'i
You don't speak for the medical profession.
Mr. Clardy, You won't even speak for yourself.
Mr. Velde. Now, let's give the witness a chance to answer these
questions.
Dr. Fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Is there a question pending ?
Mr. Velde. Yes — the question as to your membership in the Marxist
study group.
Dr. Fine. I have already declined to answer that question.
Mr. KuNziG. Shall I continue, sir ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Let me
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Are you a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds
exactly — —
Mr. Scherer. You have never been
Dr. Fine. As the question that was put before.
Mr. Scherer. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on exactly the same
grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever attend Marxist lectures at Communist
Party headquarters in New Haven, Conn. ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did Joseph Cort — C-o-r-t — a medical student at Yale
University, ever give any of the lectures held at Communist Party
headquarters in New Haven ?
Dr. Fine. I would like to decline to answer that question on the
same grounds, and I would also like to decline to answer that question
on another ground — and I think the committee sliould bear with me
at this time.
Mr. Velde. Well, the question is not as you would like to do it. The
question is very simple and can be answered "Yes'' or "No."
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer the question on those grounds, and I
would like to state additional grounds for declining to answer that
question.
Mr. Scherer. He has already stated sufficient grounds for his
declination, namely, the fifth amendment.
Dr. Fine. I have additional grounds to state here, and I would
like to have permission of the chairman to state those grounds.
Mr. Clardy. May I ask him a question first?
Mr, Velde. How long would it take you to state those grounds?
Dr. Fine. Approximately 30 seconds.
Mr. Velde. All right. I will give you 30 seconds to state those.
Mr. Clardy. May I inquire: Is it argumentative or merely a
statement ?
COMIVIUXIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 231
Mr. Velde. No ; the Chair has stated he may have 30 seconds to state
tlie additional grounds.
Dr. Fine. Every physician takes the Hippocratic oath for a serious
plan in rehxtionships, as I have tried to do in my relationships, with
patients and people, and I would like to read a pertinent section from
the Hippocratic oath :
In whatsoever house-
Mr. KuNziG. I don't see what the Hippocratic oath has to do with
this question.
Dr. Fine. I think it is very pertinent to the question.
Mr. Clakdy. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. The Chair has made a statement he will
be allowed 30 seconds to state
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt to insist on this : Since
he has identified the nature and since, in my opinion, as a member of
the committee, it can have no relevancy whatsoever, I don't think we
should entertain any more loss of time.
Dr. Fine. I think it is very relevant, if I may say so, Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Never mind.
Dr. Fine. As a physician.
My grounds are these — and I am reading them from the Hippocratic
oath :
In whatsoever house I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain
from all intentional wrongdoing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies
of man or woman, bond or free, and whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course
of my profession, as well as outside my profession, in my intercourse with men,
if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such
things to be holy secrets.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. You have refused to answer that last question?
Dr. Fine. I have declined to answer that question.
Mr. KuNziG. Declined to answer the question.
In what organization, if any, were you affiliated with Joseph Cort?
Dr. Fine. That is an extremely broad question. I couldn't begin
to answer it. I don't know even what it means.
Mr. KuNZiG. You don't know what organization you were affiliated
in with Joseph Cort ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I was a fellow student at Yale University School of
Medicine with Joseph Cort.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Joseph Cort to be a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds
stated before.
Mr. KuNziG. While you were a student at Yale University, did you
ever participate in a door-to-door or neighborhood campaign for the
sale of the Daily and Sunday Worker ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. While you were a student at Yale University, did you
ever perform such functions as distributing Communist Party litera-
ture at the industrial plants or factories in the New Haven area?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds
stated before and the same reasons.
30172— 5.3— pt. 2 S
232 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know William Kerner — K-e-r-n-e-r — while
he was a student at ^ ale University?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I do not recall any such person.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know an Arthur Levy — L-e-v-y — while you
were at Yale University?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I have no present recollection of such an individual.
Mr. KuNziG. You don't ha^'e any present recollection whether you
attended Marxist lectures with William Kerner or Arthur Levy?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
• Dr. Fine. I think that is the same question as has been asked before
in a slio^htly different form, and I decline to answer that question on
the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. On the same grounds ?
Dr. Fine. As stated before.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Hal Woerner — W-o-e-r-n-e-r — while
you were at Yale University ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Ben Dontzin — D-o-n-t-z-i-n?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer tliat question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you participate in any Marxist lectures with
either Hal Woerner or Ben Dontzin ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer tliat question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know William Rubenstein?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you attend Marxist lectures with William
Rubenstein ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Ted Polumbaum — P-o-l-u-m-b-a-u-m?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Doctor, did you attend any Marxist lectures with Ted
Polumbaum ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know his wife, Nina Polumbaum?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know one Jerry Brown — B-r-o-w-n?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you attend any Marxist lectures with either Jerry
Brown or Nina Polumbaum?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Now. according to the committee's investigation, Doc-
tor, the individuals whose names I have mentioned were among those
who participated in and were a part of the youth section of the Com-
munist Party in Ncav Haven, Conn. Were you a member of the youth
section of the Connnunist Party?
Dr. Fine. This is the same question as has been asked before, and I
decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know any of the individuals we have men-
tioned previouslv in this questioning as members of the Communist
Party? ^
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 233
Mr. KuNziG. The committee's investigation has determined that the
Marxist study group to which we have been referring this morning-
was known as tlie John Reed Chib — R-e-e-cl tlie John Reed Club.
Were you a member of the chib known as the John Reed Club ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. Before I proceed to answer that question, I would like to
know the evidence that this committee has on which to base the asser-
tion which has just been made.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be required
to answer the question.
Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Witness, let me tell you this, in case 3' ou do not
know it — I am sure you know it ; but I want to tell you again : That the
committee is asking the questions under the direction of the House of
Representatives to ascertain facts relative to subversion in this country,
and the other duty is to report to Congress and to report to the Ameri-
can people concerning subversive activities. We consider that a mem-
ber of the Communist Party is a subversive.
Now, as far as this question has been put to you is concerned, as I
said before, the committee is asking the questions through its counsel
and we are trying to get information.
Dr. Fine. I would like to make a point, if I may.
Mr. Velde. All right, proceed.
Dr. Fine. I think that in naming individuals in the manner which
has been named here that this committee is seeking to punish by smear,
by publicity, by innuendo that which the Constitution prevents the
Congress from punishing by law. I would like to say, therefore, I
believe it has usurped one of the functions of the judiciary.
Since this is my belief, I think the safeguards which are provided
for the judiciary should be recognized here and, therefore, I again
lequest that any evidence which this committee has wnth respect to
myself or to the people named before this committee be brought for-
ward at this time. If there are witnesses, that you allow my counsel
to
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness
Dr. Fine. Cross-examine these witnesses.
Mr. Velde. You are the best answer to that.
Do you belong to the Communist Party at the present time ?
Dr. Fine. Mr. Velde, that question has been asked at least a half
dozen times before. I have stated as a matter of conscience and on
other grounds that I refuse to answer that question, and I would like
to have an o])portiinity at this time to read something that Thomas
Jefferson said wih regard to this type of questioning, and I will pro-
ceed
Mr. Velde. Now, you have been given plenty of opportunity
Dr. Fine. I think it would be very pertinent to this committee to
refresh its memory with regard to some of the things Thomas Jefferson
said.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Fine. And I would like to have an opportunity to do this.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. In view of the statements you made, if you were not
a member of the Communist Party, would you answer the question
when that question was j)ropounded to you ?
234 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. It seems to me that is an identical question or a very
subtle variation of questions which have been previously asked, and
I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Clardt. May I interrupt to ask one question?
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, do you apprehend that merely asking you if
you know some person whose name is given to you will in some
way invade your field of j^ersonal freedom, no matter who that indi-
vidual might be?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Mr. Clardy (continuing). Is that your position?
I want to understand it clearly.
Mr. Perlin. I wonder whether you— —
Mr. Clardy. You may consult
Mr. Perlin. No ; I wonder — just the question. I am sorry.
Mr. Clardy. I will repeat it.
I am seeking to ascertain whether you really honestly and truly
believe that a question directed merely at discovering whether you
know a given person or a group of persons will, in your opinion, in
some way, invade your personal freedom. It that your position?
I want to understand it
Dr. Fine. I would like to say
Mr. Clardy. Clearly.
Dr. Fine. That is not necessarily so; but I think it is clear from
the questions that have been made, that have been placed here, and
from the assertions that have been made with regard to certain indi-
viduals, it unquestionably would be an invasion of my personal free-
dom if i were to answer some of these questions.
Mr. Clardy. Is that because of your own knowledge, that you know
those persons belong to the kind of subversive organizations we have
been inquiring about?
Dr. Fine. Mr. Clardy, isn't that the same question all over again ?
Mr. Clardy. No; it is not.
Do you care to answer that or decline
Dr. Fine. As I understand the question
Mr. Clardy. To answer it?
Dr. Fine. It is the same, and I decline to answer it on the same
grounds.
Mr. Clardy. On the same grounds.
Now, if we should ask whether you know your counsel who sits be-
side you, would you decline to answer that also ?
Dr. Fine. I think it is quite obvious I know my counsel.
Mr. Clardy. And you know a great many people in your hometown
about whom you would answer the question ?
Dr. Fine. I obviously know a great many people in my hometown.
Mr. Clardy. But these particular people who were named, you will
decline to answer as to any of them because you know they belong to
the group about which we are inquiring; is that not the fact?
T)v. Fine. Is that an assertion on your part?
Mr. Clardy. No ; it is not. The fact of the matter is
Dr. Fine. But it is an assertion the way it was phrased.
]SIr. Clardy. Now, you heard the question.
COMJVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 235
Dr. Fine, Well, the question-
Mr. Clakdy. Now, is that not the fact ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I think that the whole purpose of this type of questioning
is an attempt to destroy the rights which are guaranteed
Mr. Velde. You have been asked
Dr. Fine. Under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. A very simple question.
Dr. Fine. And I will say
Mr. Velde. Now, will you answer the question, please ?
Dr. Fine. That there "is no implication whatsoever of guilt of any
sort in invocation of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Clardt. Well, I asked you a simple question
Dr. Fine. And this is the basis
Mr. Velde. Now, do you invoke the fifth amendment ?
Dr. Fine. I have so stated.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. The committee's investigation
Mr. Scherer. Pardon me just a minute.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Did you know any of these men Mr. Kunzig men-
tioned by any other name ?
Mr. Clardy. Any alias, he means.
Mr. Scherer. Any other name.
Well, let's put it this way : What other name have you used at any
place, at any time, during your life than Daniel Fine ?
Dr. Fine. I have no personal recollection whatsoever of ever having
used any other name, and I would doubt offhand that I would ever do
such a thing.
Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that you are and were a member of the
Communist Party and, as such, you used another name ?
Dr. Fine. I think that is the same
Mv. Perlin. Just on the formulation
Dr. Fine (continuing). Question, Mr. Sherer.
Mr. Perlin. Just on the formulation, it is a confused question.
Mr. Scherer. It is not confused.
Mr. Perlin. It has two things in it, and I would just request-
Mr. Velde. Mr- Counsel, j^ou are allowed, by the courtesy of the
committee and the courtesy of Congress, to confer with your witness
and advise him as to his constitutional rights and other rights which
he might have. Unless you are under oath, joii are not allowed to
make a statement.
Mr. Perlin. Mr. Chairman, just one question, for clarification, to
you, if I may.
Mr. Velde. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Perlin. When a question is, as most of you know, or practically
all of you know, as attorneys, confused or has 2 answers or 2 parts,
that makes it impossible to give an accurate answer to it, or 1 question
is based on an assumption of fact and stated in 1 part of the question.
The only reason I raise it is just for the question of the clarification
of the question so there will not be
Mr. Velde. Now, Counsel^
Mr. Perlin. A confused answer.
236 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Veij>e. Will you read the question back by Mr. Scherer?
Mr. Ci^^RDY. If I may interrupt to interject something, sir
Mr. Velde. No ; let's have the question read.
(The reporter read the question as follows :
Did you know any of these men Mr. Kunzig mentioned by any other name?
Mr. ('LARDY. Any alias, he means.
Mr. Scherer. Any other name. Well, let's put it this way: What other name
have you used at any place, at any time, during your life than Daniel Fine?)
]\rr, Scherer. The question after that.
Mr. Velde. Would you restate your question, Mr. Scherer?
Mr. Scherer. Yes.
Is it not a fact you were a member of the Communist Party and, as
such, used another name other than Daniel Fine?
Mr. Velde. Well, that is
Dr. Fine. Yes.
IVIr. Velde. A split question. Let's ask one question at a time.
Mr. Scherer. Well, as a member of the Communist Party, did you
use any other name other than Daniel Fine?
Mr. Velde. That still is a split question, Mr. Scherer.
May I clarify the question by asking whether you used any other
name?
Dr. Fine. In my recollection, to my recollection, I never have.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kunzig. Doctor, the committee's investigation
Mr. Clardy. Just one moment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr- Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. May I just suggest something to the counsel — that
when he has any advice at all, a:long the nature you suggested a while
ago, he is at perfect liberty always to tell his client to raise that
objection.
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Perlin. Right.
Mr. Clardy. You are just not permitted to take part.
We are all lawyers up here, and I am sure you understand the score.
Mr. Perlin. I just wanted to facilitate it, and I thought that was
the best way to do it.
Mr. Clardy- That is just why I told you what I did.
Mr. Kunzig. Doctor, the committee's investigation has determined
that the members of the Connnunist Party in Xew Haven dominated
and controlled the Young Progressives and the Progressive Citizens
of America in New Haven. Were you a member of either the Young
Progressives or the Progressive Citizens of America?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Kunzig. Were you at any time elected to or appointed to the
Connecticut State Youth Council of the Communist Party?
Dr. Fine. It seems to me fairly clear that this question is not being
asked to obtain information, but merely to place on the record certain
smears, certain implications, certain cloak-and-dagger conceptions.
Mr. Velde. What was the question?
I am sorry
Mr. Clardy. INIr. Chairman, may I ask that be stricken from the
record ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Kunzig. The question was
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 237
Mr. Velde. It may be stricken, until we hear the question.
Mr. KuNZiG. The question was, Mr. Cliairman : Were you at any
time elected to or appointed to the Connecticut State Youth Council
of the Communist Party ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Mr. Walter. And what was that answer'^
I don't think that should be stricken.
Mr. Clardy. Well, it is impertinent. That is the reason I suggested
it. It might be helpful other ways.
Mr. Walter. It is very contemptuous. It indicates the general
attitude of the witness and, for that reason, I think it should remain
in the record. So, I aui going to object
Mr. Clardy. I will withdraw my objection. You have a better idea.
Dr. Fine. I would like to assert my attitude is not contemptuous.
I liave a great respect for the Congress of the United States as in-
dividuals, and I have a great respect for you gentlemen here today.
I disagree with certain things I think this conmiittee is doing, and I
think it is my right as a citizen to so state.
Mr. Velde. Now, will you answer the question that was put to you.
by counsel ?
Mr. KuNziG. I believe he has already given tlie answer to that
question.
You refuse to answer further, or you decline on that question?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds — —
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know
Dr. Fixe. As previously stated.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Charles Lindsey Clark — L-i-n-d-s-e-y —
Clark — C-1-a-r-k — who was a gi'aduate student at Yale and an instruc-
tor in physics ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to auswer that question on the same grounds
as previously stated.
jSIr. KuNziG. Did you know Clark to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, you have mentioned that you went to radar
school. Were you a student or did you perform any other duties at
radar school of the Navy? You were not on the faculty, in other
words, or anything like that ?
Dr. Fine. No: I was a student.
Mr. KuNzTG. Did you at any time during your Navy training have
given to you confidential or classified information I
Dr. Fine. I believe I did.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you at any time pass on any classified or confi-
dential information to the Communist Party or any agents thereof?
Mr. Chairman, I request that the record show the witness thinks
this question is so humorous that he is literally laughing about it.
Mr. Velde. Yes ; I think the record should
Dr. Fine. That is ridiculous.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Certainly show that.
Mr. Perlin. That is ridiculous.
Mr. Velde. And let the record show counsel for the witness thinks
it is ridiculous, too.
238 COI^IMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Perlin. I do. .
Mr. Velde. I am sure all of the member^ of the committee tlunk it
is not ridiculous. It is very sincere.
Mr. Perlin. Well
Dr. Fine. I would like to say I think that question is an insulting
question. It implies certain thin^^s which are clearly untrue and you,
Mr. Vekle, know the thin<j: that is implied there is untrue, as well as
I do.
Mr. Velde. Xow. will you answer the question ?
Dr. Fine. I am a law-abidinir citizen, and to my knowledije
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, will you answer the question '.
Dr. Fine. I liave never violated the law.
Mr. Velde. Will you answer the question?
Dr. Fine. I am answering the question.
If I had any confidential information, it was passed on only within
the realm to which it was supposed to be. In other words, if I was
functioning as an officer messenger, the confidential information was
given to those to whom it was supposed to be given, which was the
regulations of the Navy, or any other capacity, any other confidential
information which I may have
Mr. Velde. You did giVe confidential information; is that correct?
Dr. Fine. Absolutely not.
Mr. Perlin. No : he didn't say
Dr. Fine. If I had confidential information in my possession, it may
have been given to other Navy officers whose duties required of their
having that confidential information.
Mr. Velde. Wliat I am asking
Dr. Fine. In other words
Mr. Velde. What I am asking, Mr. Witness : Did you give informa-
tion to any other officer of the Navy, regardless of whether it was in line
of duty or not ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. No; I did not, except within the realm it was fulfilling
of my duty.
Mr. Perlin. In the line of duty.
Dr. Fine. I think that is clear.
Is that clear, Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. The Daily Worker, New York, Thursday, September
the 8th, 1949, carried a story concerning the Paul Kobeson situation at
Peekskill — P-e-e-k-s-k-i-1-1. In that document, in the paper, it lists
one Daniel Fine, Yale Medical School student, as one of those injured
in that riot. Did you participate in that riot or fighting which took
place up there at Peekskill ?
Dr. Fine. I would like to answer that question, and I would like to
have an opportunity, before I begin, to have permission of this com-
mittee to answer that question in full.
Mr. Velde. Well, now, I can't give you permission to harangue
Mr. Perlin. He doesn't wish to harangue.
Mr. Velde. And argue. The question is very simple : Did you par-
ticipate in the Peekskill riot?
Now, if you wnll answer "Yes" or "No," then we will allow you to
explain your answer.
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr, Perlin.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 239
Dr. Fine. I would be glad to have the opportunity to tell everything
about Peekskill, but I participated in no riot. I was a victim of vio-
lence, of force and violence, at that concert
Mr. Velde. You were there ^
Dr. Fine. At the hands of hoodlums and vigilantes, whom I believe
were partly incited by the work of this committee and similar com-
mittees ; and, since this committee claims to be interested in force and
violence, and since I am wholly and totally opposed to force and vio-
lence, in any form, particularly because of my experience at Peekskill,
I would like to have an opportunity to answer that question in full.
Mr. Velde. You answered that you were present at Peekskill ?
Dr. Fine. I was severely injured at Peekskill.
Mr. Velde. Whatever you call it, whether it was a riot, whether it
was picketing, or whatever it was, you were in Peekskill at the time
mentioned by counsel ; is that true ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I would like to say I was not picketing. I was a spec-
tator at a cultural event, and in the course of leaving that concert, I
was struck in the face about three-quarters of a mile away from the
concert ground by a rock thrown from a car coming in the opposite di-
rection. As a result of that, I was hospitalized for 2 weeks, and dur-
ing that illness I was in an extremely dangerous — an extremely
dangerous condition.
Mr. Clardy. Do you know Paul Robeson ?
Dr. Fine. I know of Paul Robeson from his cultural work, from
his artistry, as I think most Americans who are interested in music
and the theater know Paul Robeson.
Mr. Clardy. Well, my question was : Do you know him personally ?
Dr. Fine. I know of him merely by public report.
Mr. Clardy. I see. You have had no social intercourse with him,
then?
Dr. Fine, That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know a Mike Russo — R-u-s-s-o ?
Dr. Fine. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds —
that is, the grounds previously stated — the first amendment, the fifth
amendment.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever have a discussion with Mike Russo re-
garding membership in the Communist Party ?
Dr. Fine. I think that is an identical question to ones which have
been previously answered, and I think my answer is clear to this
committee. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. No questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
(No response.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
(No response.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. I just want to ask him one question.
Doctor, during the past 5 years have you attended any conference,
political conference or meeting, or discussion, which you didn't con-
sider to be communistic ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
240 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (P^DUCATION)
Mr. Perlin. What was that question again, because it's a double
ne<rative, and I don't know
]Mr. Moulder. AYell. 1 will ask it this way : Have you attended any
political nieetino- during the past 5 years, or anj^ conference, or meet-
ings, which were not communistic ?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I would like to decline to answer any question of that
sort on the basis of the first amendment to the Constitution which
guarantees freedom of assembly, guarantees freedom of speech, and
guarantees freedom of the press.
Mr. Moulder. I wasn't challenging vour right of freedom or the
statement which you have just made.
Dr. Fine. I tliink
Mr. Moulder. It in no way interferes with that.
Dr. Fine. I think it is
Mr. Moulder. I was merely asking-
Dr. Fine. Implicit in our form of government that the ballot is
secret, I think, in the same sense one's political convictions, one's
political activities, are a matter of conscience, to be spoken or not to
06 spoken, as the individual pleases, and I would like to, in that re-
gard, read from Thomas Jefferson because I think this committee will
be very interested in that.
Mr. Moulder. Well, Thomas Jefferson
Mr. Walter. We have all read all of that.
Dr. Fine. I don't think this committee has heard this particular
statement of Thomas Jefferson.
Mr. Walter. Yes. I am very well acquainted with Jefferson, and
perhaps have a different appreciation of what he stood for than what
you and other people who have hiding behind him think he said.
Dr. Fine. May I read the statement, and will you tell me then if
you agree with the meaning of the statement ?
Mr. Walter. No; I know all about Jefferson. I have read his
works
Dr. Fine. Mr. Velde. I appeal to you
Mr. Walter. As a boy.
Dr. Fine. For the privilege of reading
Mx. Velde. No; I must say this: Thomas Jefferson was a great
man, and I think all the members of the committee know of his great
work, and you can't enlighten us any further with a
Mr. Moulder. He couldn't
Mr. Velde (continuing). Dissertation on the work of Thomas
Jefferson.
Mr. Moulder. He certainly can't refuse to answer, Mr. Chair-
man
Dr. Fine. I would like to in that regard-
Mr. Velde. So, Mr. Witness, I must insist-
Dr. Fine. In that regard — to read a quotation from Thomas Jeffer-
son and ask Mr. Velde whether he agrees with this statement.
Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. The Chair refuses to hear anything further — —
Mr. Perlin. Mr. Chairman
Dr. Fine. Does tliis committee feel frightened by Thomas Jefferson ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 241
Mr. Velde. Dr. Fine, let me say this: You have been called as a
witness here to give information to the committee. I have told you
this before. We have the duty, as imposed upon us by the House
of Representatives, to investigate subversive activities. I am sure
that you could be of great assistance. We asked you to come before
this committee to give that assistance. The committee — and I am
speaking for myself — and I think I can speak for the other members —
can draw the inference from your performance here today that pres-
ently you are a member of the Communist Party and that you have
been engaged in subversive activities.
Now, I want to ask you one final question : Do you want to remove
that doubt, or that opinion, that we as a committee of Congress have?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I believe the assumption that has been made by you is
anotlier attempt of this committee to destroy the fifth amendment,
and I again state that if this committee has any evidence, has any
witnesses, has anything of the sort, which it wishes to bring forward,
if it will allow my counsel to cross-examine the witnesses, to be con-
fronted by the evidence, then I think we can discuss this matter fur-
ther.
Mr. Velde. Is there anything further?
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. My understanding, Mr. Chairman, is that the wit-
ness has not declined to answer your statement.
Mr. Clardt. He hasn't declined to answer. He just hasn't an-
swered it.
Mr. Moulder. No : he has not declined to answer your statement,
Mr. Chairman — the statement containing the assumption he had been
guilty of engaging in subversive activities.
Mr. Perlin. Mr. Chairman, with your leave
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel
Mr. Perlin. Excuse me. I am not going to — I am just going to
make a request. I gather the questioning is over. I would just like
to make this request, with your leave. It will take 10 seconds.
Mr. KuNziG. The questioning, sir, is not over because there was no
answer to the last question.
Mr. Velde. No. It would be unfair to other counsel who have ap-
peared before this committee to allow you to make
Mr. Perlin. Well, it represents the same procedure followed by this
committee
Mr. Velde. You understand, Mr. Counsel, this is not a court of law.
Mr. Perlin. No.
Mr. Velde. We are trying to ascertain facts.
We give you the privilege of consulting with your client.
Mr. Perlin. I recognize that, Mr. Congressman, but other commit-
tees have followed the same procedure I was going to ask. ^ ^
Mr. Velde. Other committees of Congress do not allow their wit-
nesses to have counsel.
Mr. Perlin. I was
Mr. Velde. We are going out of our way to allow you to represent
a client before this committee.
Mr. Perlin. I appreciate that, Mr. Congressman.
242 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. I just camiot allow you to make any further statements.
Mr, Perlin. Well
Mr. Velde. You may consult with your witness and give him all
of the benefit of your legal ability, your knowledge, and everything
else, but I cannot allow you to make any voluntary statements.
Mr. Perlin. All right. I am not-
Mr. Velde. That is all there is to it.
Mr. Perlin. I am not making any stat-ement. I am just referring
to a prior procedure followed by this committee before
Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Perlin. Where Mr. Jackson followed this procedure.
Mr. Cl vrdy. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Perlin. That is the only thing I am requesting.
^Ir. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. May I suggest the witness has not answered your
question
Mr. Perlin. That is the only thing.
Mr. Clardt. And that he be compelled to answer it.
Mr. Perlin. I think it is the practical thing to do.
Mr. Clardy. Will counsel please subside?
Mr. Velde. ISIr. Counsel
Mr. Perlin. Yes.
Mr. Velde. May I say this : We have, in the past, or this committee
has — not under my chairmanship — removed witnesses from the hear-
ing room
Mr. Perlin. You mean counsel ?
Mr. Velde. Both.
Mr. Perlin. Both.
Mr. Velde. And I wouldn't want to do that.
Mr. Perlin. I wouldn't want you to do it, Mr. Congressman. I
wouldn't want you to do it.
Mr. Velde. Now, there has been a suggestion made
Mr. Clardy. Yes.
Mr. Velde. That the witness has not answered my question, and
you are directed to answer the question.
Dr. Fine. Would the question please be repeated ?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Will the reporter read the question ?
(The reporter read the question as follows :)
Dr. Fine, let me say this : You have been called as a witness here to give
information to the committee. I have told you this before. We have the
duty imposed on us by the House of Representatives to investigate subversive
activities. I am sure that you could be of great assistance. We asked you
to come before this committee to give that assistance. The committee — and I
am speaking for myself — and I think I can speak for the other members — can
draw the inference from your performance here today that presently you are
a member of the Communist Party and that you have been engaged in sub-
versive activities. Now, I want to ask you one final question : Do you want
to remove that doubt, or that opinion, that we as a committee of Congress
have?
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Dr. Fine. I would like to say that, as far as I have been able to
ascertain here today, that assumption is based on no evidence, other
than the characterization which this committee has chosen to make.
COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 243
This is exactl}' tlie basis on wliicli Mrs. Agnes Meyer has criticized
this committee for its improper proceedings
Mr. Velde. Doctor
Dr. Fine. Which reduced the rights of American people.
Mr. Velde. Doctor, you can furnish
Dr. Fine. I woukl like to ask
Mr. Velde. Evidence. If you are asking about evidence, you can
furnish the evidence here today by just answering this question.
(At this point Dr. Fine conferred with Mr. Perlin.)
Mr. Clardt. All you have to do is deny any Communist connec-
tions and your record will be clear.
Dr. Fine. If this committee has no other evidence, then I think
it is improper that they make any sort of accusation.
If this is the method of operation of this committee, it is clearly
one which is inquisitorial, which was followed in the tradition of every
inquisition in our history, starting with the inquisition of Jesus Christ,
proceeding through the inquisitions in Spain, the inquisitions of the
Puritans and the inquisitions which took place in this country of the
so-called Salem witches.
On this basis, I think there is no reason to believe that this com-
mittee has any evidence. I have stated before — if it does, I ask it to
bring such evidence forward and I would like to also ask
Mr. Velde. Well, now
Dr. Fine. At this moment
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness
Dr. Fine. If I may proceed, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Velde. No. No ; you may not proceed any further, because it
is merely a harangue and you are not answering the question.
It is very dull to us
Dr. Fine. I am sorry to hear
Mr. Velde. Dr. Fine
Dr. Fine. That our noble history, one which has brought forth free-
dom in this country, through long struggle, is dull to this committee.
Mr. Velde. Now, the committee has other business to attend to and
we don't care to listen to a person who is a witness before this com-
mittee who refuses to answer a very simple and easy question to answer.
Now, do you or do you not refuse to answer this question ?
Dr. Fine. I have declined to answer this question and similar ques-
tions, and I have stated my grounds, and I would like to ask this com-
mittee-
Mr. Velde. Do you so decline to answer the question
Dr. Fine. I have declined to answer
Mr. Velde (continuing). That was put to you?
Dr. Fine. And I would like to ask this committee to give me the
same assurances
Mr. Velde. The committee is adjourned until Thursday morning
at 10: 30.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 45 a. m., the hearing was recessed until 10: 30
a. m., Thursday, April 16, 1953.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTEATION
(Education— Part 2)
THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 1953
UNiiTiD States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. C.
public hearing
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 : 40 a. m., in the caucus room, 362
Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman),
presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde,
Bernard W. Kearney, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer (appearance
noted in transcript) , and Morgan M. Moulder,
Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, and Frank S. Tavenner,
Jr„ counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Raphael I. Nixon,
director of research; Donald T. Appell, investigator; and Thomas W.
Beale, Sr., chief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The conmiittee will come to order.
Mr. Reporter, let the record show that I have set up a subcommittee
for the hearing of Dr. Wendell Furry consisting of Mr. Kearney as
chairman, Mr. Clardy, and Mr. Moulder.
(Representative Harold H. Velde left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Kearney (presiding). Mr. Counsel, are you ready
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. With the first witness ?
Mr. Taatenner. Is Mr. Wendell H. Furry in the hearing room?
Mr. Kearney. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to
give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Dr. Furry. I do.
Mr. Kearney. Proceed.
TESTIMONY OF WENDELL HINKLE FURRY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Wendell H. Furry who appeared as a
witness before the Committee on Un-America]i Activities on February
26, 1953, are you not?
Dr. Furry. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel?
Dr. Fltrry. Yes, sir.
245
246 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. FoKER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washin<Tton, D. C.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think at this point I should state
for the record the facts and action of the committee leading up to
Mr. Furry's appearance here today, or Dr. Furry "s appearance.
A great many calls, telephone calls, by members of the press came
to this committee on and prior to March the 13th with reference to
the witness' supposed request to appear before the committee, and
newspaper articles were called to our attention with regard to it.
I have in front of me the March 10, 1953, issue of the Boston Post
which, in headlines, says "Furry will testify in House probe again."
This led to action by the Committee on Un-American Activities in
an executive session on March 13, and I read from the minutes of that
meeting as follows :
The chairman called the attention of the committee to the press releases made
by Dr. Wendell H. Furry indicating that he had arranged to appear before the
Committee on Un-American Activities and, in one instance, had stated that he
was ready to appear before the committee if called.
After considerable discussion, it was unanimously agreed that in the event
the chairman is again contacted by the press to advise the press that no commu-
nication of any character had been received by the committee from Dr. Furry
with regard to his desire to again appear before the committee, and that in the
event Dr. Furry desired to appear before the committee he would be ftermitted
to do so.
(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the liearing room at
this point.)
Mr. Tavenner. Then a letter was received under date of March 17,
1963, from Wendell H. Furry addressed to the committee, enclosing
an affidavit, and in which he stated as follows :
I have since examined the record of my testimony. I am satisfied that I was
legally justified under the fiftli amendment in all my refusals to answer. On
reconsideration, however, I have decided that I wish, nevertheless, to answer cer-
tain ones of the questions that I refused to answer. With regard to my refusals
to answer other questions, I have not changed my position.
And then he attached an affidavit which he desired to be considered
as a part of his testimony, and I think I should read into the record
the affidavit :
CouNTT OF Middlesex,
Comtuomvcalth of Massachusetts:
Wendell H. Furry, being first duly sworn, deposes and says :
I am not, and have not been at any time in at least the last 2 years, a member
of tlie Communist Party. I have no knowledge of the present existence at
Harvard University of any group or cell of the Communist Party.
Wendell H. Purry.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of March 1953.
Mary Conlon, Notarp Public.
On the following day, March 18, 1953, the chairman of the commit-
tee wired Dr. Furry as follows :
Re request in your letter March 17, 1953, hearing before Committee on Un-
American Activities will be granted you in Washington, D. C, on April 16, 1953,
10 :30 a. m.
Harold H. Velde, Chairman.
So, it appears that the witness is here today as a voluntary witness
and is not under subpena of the committee.
Di-. Furry, I want to make a further statement with regard to your
appearance here.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 247
It* is noted from the March 10, 1953, issue of the Boston Post that
you are quoted as having stated : "Professor Furry has stated that
he intends to supplement his previous testimony," referring to the
appearance liere today.
Now, I trust, Dr. Furry, in supplementing your testimony today
you will see fit to cooperate with the committee without any reserva-
tions on your part and that you will decide not to limit your testimony
to the answering of questions which you may feel, for some p^^rsonal
reason, it is to your interest to answer. In other words, 1 aui asking
you now that you are here and you desire to supplement your testi-
mony that you will supplement it without reservation and advise the
committee regarding facts that it is seeking to elicit.
Now, as you know, witnesses have testified before this committee
that there existed an organized group or cell of the Communist Party
made up of exclusively or almost exclusively members of the teaching
profession at Harvard University. That cell, according to the public
testimony, which has so far been taken, was in existence as early as
1937, ancl when the individuals testified they left the party in 1939 it
was still in existence.
The committee, because of the seriousness of Communist organiza-
tion of members of the teaching profession, both because of the nature
of the profession and because of the great influence that teachers have
on members of the community generally, is anxious to learn the
extent that the Communist Party has been successful in its objectives.
It is anxious to know the methods by which it sought to promulgate its
purposes and to accomplish its purposes.
According to this sworn testimony that the committee has, and with
which you are familiar, and, in fact, from your own testimony when
you appeared before, it is quite apparent that there are facts within
your knowledge that, if developed and given, would aid the committee
in this investigation.
So, I am asking you now not to limit your testimony to the two
things referred to in your affidavit, but to advise this conunittee fully
regarding the subject of its inquiry.
Now, with that preliminary statement, I want to ask you whether
you know, of your own knowledge, that this Communist Party group
among the professors at Harvard which has been shown to have been
in existence by the testimony up to 1939 continued past that date, and,
if so, how long it continued.
Dr. Furry. On the gi-ounds of the first and fifth amendment, which
I stated in my previous testimony, I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Ta^^nnee. Then, it is quite obvious that in appearing here to
supplement your testimony that you do not desire to supplement it in
a way to be of any assistance to this committee.
Dr. Furry. It's evidence that I told the truth in my letter to Mr.
Velde.
Mr. Kearney. As I take it from the correspondence that has been
read here, Doctor, you are willing to come back before this committee
and testify to those things that you want to testify to ; in other words,
you are going to limit your testimony and only answer those questions
in accordance with that letter that was written under that date — I have
forgotten what it was now.
Mr. Moui.DER. The affidavit.
S0172— 53— pt. 2 9
248 COIMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kearney. The affidavit.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. The 1 7th of March.
Dr. Furry. That is correct, sir. I was convinced I had the right
under the fifth amendment, had the privilege, of refusing to answer
even these questions before.
Mr. Kearney. What was your object in requesting the chairman of
the committee then to reappear before the committee vohmtarily ?
Dr. Furry. I i-equested, first, that the affidavit be made part of the
record, and simply indicated my willingness to reappear if that was
the only way those particular statements could be made part of the
record.
Mr. Kearney. "Well, I am a little bit confused. Doctor, about your
thoughts in this matter. If what you say is so, why didn't you testify
to that on your original appearance here ?
Dr. Furry. Wlien I appeared here at first, I was naturally, in my
public appearance here, not used to this sort of circumstance. I was
not at ease. I was under some considerable strain. I could not appre-
ciate the full impression that the whole course of the testimony could
give, and I was in fairly complete ignorance of the testimony of other
witnesses. I .have had a chance to examine all of that at leisure
since
Mr. Kearney. Well, this is
Dr. Furry. And I
Mr. Kearney. After you had already conferred with counsel ; isn't
that so ?
Dr. Furry. Yes ; I also conferred with counsel.
Mr. Kearney. But you are at ease today, I trust ?
Dr. Furry. Not completely, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
In your affidavit you state that you have not been at any time in at
least the last 2 years a member of the Communist Party. Wliat would
you say if the question were propounded to you, say, during the last
3 years have you been a member of the Communist Party ?
And I am now asking that question
Dr. Furry. That is not
Mr. Moulder. Have you been at any time
Dr. Furry. A hypothetical question ?
Mr. Moulder (continuing). Been a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Furry. That is an actual question
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Dr. Furry. And not a hypothetical question ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Moulder. Then, in your affidavit, you further state you have no
knowledge of the present existence at Harvard University of any
group or cell of the Communist Party. Now I am asking you the
question as to whether or not you have any knowledge of the existence
at Harvard University of any group or cell of the Communist Party at
any time during the past 5 years.
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously given.
Mr. Moulder. That is all.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 249
Mr. Kearney. Well, then, to be honest, Professor, again will you
tell me what was the purpose of recjuesting a further hearing in your
particular case, requesting permission to come before this coimnittee?
Dr. Furry, My request of permission to come before this committee
was not an unqualified request. I requested that these two state-
ments of mine be placed in the record and indicated that I would re-
quest that — I did request the opportunity to appear to place them in
the record if they could not be got in the record in any other way.
Mr. ScHERER. Doctor, isn't it a fact that you came all the way
down here from Harvard to testify that you hadn't been a member
of the Communist Party for the last 2 years for the reason that you
have made an agreement with the officials of Harvard University
that if you so testify you woukl retain your position as a teacher at
Harvard ? Now, isn't that the fact ?
Dr. Furry. That is not the fact, sir, and there is no such agreement.
Mr. IvEARNEY. Have you discussed with the officials or the board of
trustees, or whatever the governing board at Harvard is, your actions
as a witness on the stand before this committee and your request to
voluntarily appear before the committee again?
Dr. Furry. I have discussed the matter in general with some mem-
bers of the Harvard Corporation, and I indicated to them my inten-
tion to do so.
Mr. ICearney. In other words, you have indicated to them that you
would be willing to appear before this committee and state under
oath you had not been a member of the Communist Party for the
past 2 years ?
Dr. Furry. I told them that was my intention.
Mr. Kearney. You had already decided in your own mind that that
would be the only testimony you would give before this committee
concerning your membership in the Communist Party, past or present,
that you had not been a member of the Communist Party in the past
2 years ?
Dr. Furry. When I first indicated to some members of the Harvard
Corporation that I intended probably to offer further testimony at
this committee, I did not tell them just what it would be. I told them
I intended to consult with counsel
Mr. Kearney. But the only
Dr. Furry. And to make up my mind
Mr. Kearney. Further testimony
Dr. Furry. After further consideration.
Mr. KJEARNEY. Pardon me.
The only other testimony you were willing to give before this com-
mittee and are willing to give before this committee is that within the
past 2 years you have not been a member of the Communist Party;
is that correct?
Dr. Furry. And that I have no knowledge of the present ex-
istence
Mr. Kearney. I was going to follow that up.
Dr. Furry. Of a Communist group at Harvard.
Mr. EIearney. But prior to that period of time you refused to
testify ?
Dr. Furry. That is correct.
Mr. Clardy. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ?
250 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. FiiiTV, I have your affidavit in front of me, and I must confess
your first sentence tliat you have been referring to leaves me con-
fused. So, I want to ask you some questions about the meaning of the
terminology you employ.
You say : "I am. not, and have not been at any time in at least the
last two years, a member of the Connnunist Party, "
Now, my first question — -and there will be a series of them — is this :
Wliat do you mean when you say "at any time in at least the last
2 years''?
Dr. Furry. I mean a time of at least the last 2 years.
Mr. Clardy. Well, how much time do you mean beyond 2 years,
if any ?
Dr. Furry. Well, perhaps you can elicit that by questioning, sir.
Mr. Clardy. By what ?
Dr. Furry. Perhaps you can elicit that information by questioning.
Mr. Clardy. Well, do you mean to say 2 years and 1 day ?
Now, I'm attemptino- to find out exactly what you are trying to
represent to this committee, and if you mean some period more than
2 years, I wish you would tell me how much more, if you can, because
you are leaving in my mind
Dr. Furry. I will say not at any time since the 1st of March 1951.
Mr. Kearney. Is that when you left the Communist Party ?
Dr. Furry. Sir, that question contains an obvious implication.
It's like the question: When did you stop beating your wife?
I refuse to answer that question on the
Mr. Kearney. I assumed
Dr. Furry. Constitutional grounds.
Mr. Kearney. You would.
Mr. Clardy. Well, now, the chairman has asked it in a slightly
diiferent form than I intended to ask it, and I will put it to you this
way : I will preface it with a brief statement. The way you have
worded that first sentence leaves in my mind at least the plain infer-
ence that you are admitting there that you were a Communist at some
period prior to the date that you just mentioned. Now, that is not
a question. I am telling you that is the impression I get from your
statement.
But my question is this: When were you last a member of the
Communist Party ?
Dr. Furry. Sir, that question has just as much of an implication
in it as Mr. Kearney's question
Mr. Kearney. I think
Dr. Furry. And I refuse to answer it
Mr. Kearney (continuing) . The Congressman intended to have — —
Dr. Furry. On the grounds given.
Mr. Kearney (continuing). That implication in the question.
Dr. Furry. Beg pardon.
Mr. Kearney. I believe the committee members who just asked
that question intended to have that implication in the question.
Dr. Furry. Well, yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Well, his own affidavit gives that implication,
certainly.
Mr. Kearney. Your own affidavit gives that implication.
Dr. Furry. My affidavit was not intended to give that impression,
and did not convey that impression.
COMJVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 251
Mr. ScHERER. Well, it does.
Mr. Clardy. Well, do you refuse to answer my question ?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer your question.
Mr. Clardy. On the same grounds ?
Dr. Furry. On the constitutional grounds ; yes.
Mr. Clardy. Let me ask you this : If it does not contain that impli-
cation, why did you employ such careful language when you said you
had not been a Communist at any time in the last 2 years, instead of
saying, "I have never been a Communist at any time" ?
Now, why did you choose this language instead of that which L
just suggested?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry, I used that language because that was as much as I
was willing to say without asserting the privilege of the
Mr. Clardy. Now, may I inquire why you were not willing to say
more than that ?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that on the constitutional grounds,
sir.
Mr. Clardy. Well, sir, would you not agree that it is a fair implica-
tion from that language and your answers that you are concealing
something from this committee about the period prior to the date you
mentioned ?
Dr. Furry. I am refusing to answer certain questions about that
period. That's been^
Mr. Clardy. Well, I
Dr. Furry. Obvious all along, sir.
Mr, Clardy. We understand it perfectly; but, Doctor, I am not
trying to trap you. I am not trying to get you to say anything in
that way, in any way that might incriminate you ar make you a
witness against yourself; but if you expect your trip here to do you
any good, if you intend to allay any of these implications which you
say may be drawn from what we ask, a plain answer to the question I
have asked — that you have never been a Communist — will allay the
ghost forever, unless there is other testimony to dispute you.
Now, bear with me for just a moment. The next sentence — you
say you have no knowledge of the present existence at Harvard
University of any group or cell of the Communist Party. Now,
that, to my mind at least, leaves the plain implication when you use
the word "present" that you do have knowledge of the existence of
such a group or cell at some time in the past. So, my question is this :
During what period did such a cell exist to your own knowledge ?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I
have stated before.
Mr. Clardy. Do you have knowledge that such a cell did exist at
some such time?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds stated
before.
Mr. Clardy. Well, Doctor, was your trip down here designed in any
way to create the impression in the public mind or in the mind of
those who employ you that you have never at any time been a member
of the Communist Party ? In other words, is that the purpose of your
trip and your testimony here ?
30172— 53— pt. 2 10
252 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. Fui?RY. The purpose of my trip and my testimony is to make
precisely the statements which are made in my written commmiica-
tion
Mr. Clardy. Then vou-
I)r. Furry. To the committee.
Mr. Clardy (continnino-). Did you intend to come here for the pur-
pose of denyino- past ))arty membership; is that true?
(At this "point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. Now I have forgotten the question.
Mr. Clardy. AVill you read it to him, Mr. Reporter?
(The reporter read the question as follows :
Then you did not intend to come here for the juirpose of denying past party
membership; is that true?)
Dr. Furry. Yes; that is true, sir, and I think tluit probably the
purpose mio;ht be made a little more clear if the entire contents of
my letter to Mr. Velde were read into the record
Mr. Kearney. Well
Dr. Furry. If Mr. Tavenner wants to do that, or
Mr. Clardy. We are trying to get at it by testimony directly from
you, and give you an opportunity to thoroughly explain.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the purpose of your testimony here
today. Doctor, is indicated in the words of your affidavit : isn't that so?
Dr. Furry. Practically so, sir.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, "I am not, and have not been at
any time in at least the last 2 years, a member of the Communist
Party"?
Dr. Furry. Plus the other statement, sir ; yes.
Mr. Kearney. Plus that you have no knowledge of the present
existence at Harvard University of any group or cell of the Com-
munist Party? . ^ , , i i
Dr. Furry. I am willing to add to that, sir, I have no knowledge
of it at any time during the last 2 years.
Mr. Clardy. But you won't
Mr. Kearney. And that is as far back as you will go i
Dr. Furry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question i
For the second time, I want to ask you the question : Have you
ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Dr Furry. I refused to answer that question m previous testimony
and i now refuse to answer it on the same grounds I have stated.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Scherer. ,.^,^,10^1
Mr Scherer. Doctor, isn't it a fact that on or about March 1951
vou '^ot out of the active membership in the i)arty as a result of an
arrano-ement between you and the party for doing so for the reason
that it would be beneficial both to you and the party at that time f
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Isn't that a fact ?
Dr. Furry. That is not a fact, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Isn't that a fact ?
Is any part of what I said true?
Dr Furry. No, sir. .
Mr. Scherer. Have you accepted any discipline of the party within
the last 2 years?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 253
Dr. Furry. No, sir.
Mr. ScHERKR. None whatsoever?
Dr. Furry. None whatsoever.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever accept any discipline of the |)arty prior
to the hist 2 years 'i
Dr. FuRKY. I refuse to answer that question on the "rounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Kearney. All ri^ht, Mr.
Dr. Furry. I would like to make one
I would like to make one further
Mr. Kearney. ]Mr.
Dr. Furry. Addition, sir, before you close.
Mr. Tavenner. We are not <ioino- to close.
Mr. Kearney. Is this an observation on the question or is this ji'oing
to be an attempt to harangue the committee or make a speech!'
Dr. Furry. Well, there is no need for me to make it now if the hear-
ing is not about to close. I didn't know what the meaning of your
gavel was. It, however, was simply
jNlr. Kearney. My gavel, for your information, Professor, was to
have counsel proceed
Dr. Furry. Yes, sir.
JNIr. Kearney. And speedily end this hearing, because I think it
leads to nowhere.
Dr. Furry. Yes. Well, if the hearing is likely speedily to end, I
simply would like to amplify my answer to a question about the bear-
ing of these statements on my position at Harvard University, and
that is: That no action on my part was specified by the authorities of
the university ; that the authorities of the university made no promise
to me of any sort as the probable or certain, or any other such word,
results of my taking this action.
Mr. Clardy. But-
Mr. Kearney. What is your present status at the university ?
Dr. Furry. Beg pardon.
Mr. Kearney. What is your present status at the university?
Dr. Furry. I am to continue with my duties, so far as I am able,
and I am naturally missing some of them today, and my case is being
very carefully considered by the authorities at the university.
Mr. Kearney. Now, one or two more questions, ])lease.
Doctor, all of this correspondence between you and the chairman and
this affidavit resulted in the fact, did it not, that after your testimony
here, your i:»revious testimony, innnediately upon leaving the commit-
tee room you went to the offices of the Associated Press and stated to
them in words or in substance that for the past 2 years you had not
been a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Furry. I did not make that statement, sir. I stated I am not
a member of the Communist Party.
JSIr. Kearney. You stated you were not a member of the Communist
Party ?
Dr. Furry. In that press statement.
Mr. Kearney. That was at the present time ?
Dr. Ftjrry. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. You didn't state to the pressman you had been a
member of the Communist Party at any other time ?
254 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. Furry, I refuse to answer any questions by them on this subject.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
One additional question : At any time while you were employed ov
have been employed at Harvard University as a professor or as a
teacher — at any time durin^^that period of employment — were you a
member of the Communist Farty ?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Moulder. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, we have talked about the present and you
have refused to answer about the past. I want to ask you now about
the future.
Is there any intention on your part to rejoin the party as soon as
this little episode has been forgotten ?
Mr. Furry. Sir, that question contains an implication.
Mr. Clardy. It sure does.
Dr. Furry. If you will word it differently, I will answer it.
Mr. Clardy. I will let it stand as it is.
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. I have no intention whatever of joining the Communist
Party at any future time, sir.
Mr. Kearney. Or rejoining the party?
Dr. Furry. I have no intention of joining it in any way at any future
time.
Mr. Kearney. Have you any intention of rejoining the party ?
Dr. Furry. Sir, I will not accept the wording of that question. If
you insist on wording it that way, I will refuse to answer on constitu-
tional grounds.
Mr. Kearney. Will you answer the question or decline to answer it ?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. I decline to answer it worded that way
Mr. Kearney. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Dr. Furry. On constitutional grounds.
Mr. Ta\^enner. Dr. Furry, I am not certain I fully understood your
answer to a member's question as to your reason for not telling the
committee when you were here before as a witness that you had not
been a member of the Communist Party for at least 2 years. Will
you explain that to me, please ?
Dr. Furry. Well, the circumstances of the hearing prevented me
from having as full a view of the whole situation and the whole im-
pression that w^ould be given by the evidence of myself and others as
I could get later on a careful study of it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, as a matter of fact, Dr. Furry, hadn't
you determined before you came to that committee hearing that you
would answer that question just as you did and that you would not tell
this committee anything about your membership or nonmembership'
at the time ?
Dr. Furry. I don't quite understand, sir, what you're asking of
M-hether I had predetermined or not.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you if you had not deliberately decided
ahead of the hearing that you would not answer the question as to
whether or not you are now a member of the Communist Party ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 255
Dr. Furry. Well, sir; before the hearing I could have even less no-
tion of what impression would be given to the testimony than I could
have at the hearing.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question ? It is a direct ques-
tion.
Dr. Furry. And because of that reason and because of the im-
pressions I had received at the private hearing the committee had
given me a week before, I had indeed, after consultation with counsel,
decided that I would refuse to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You knew before the hearing you were going
to refuse to answer. So, it wasn't a question of your being taken off
guard at all. It wasn't a question that you were under any stress
or strain at this hearing. You had decided ahead of time you were
not going to answer that question.
Dr. Furry. It was not a matter of my being taken off guard or of
my being confused, sir. I won't deny that I may have perhaps some-
times been either or both of those, but I simply say that under the cir-
cumstances of the hearing, giving questions — giving answers in rapid
succession to questions, with the subject changing frequently, I could
not get the view of what the whole effect of the evidence would be that
I could get later on from deliberate study.
Mr. Tavenner. But you have just told us you made the decision
before you came to the hearing room that you would not answer that
question.
Dr. Furry. And I have also told you I could have even less notion
about what the whole effect would be before the evidence had even
happened.
Mr. Clardy. Counsel, one question at that juncture : At this hear-
ing you are not being rushed or hurried or harried at all, are you?
Dr. Furry. Not very much, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Well, you are not at all, are you? You have been able
to take your time. In fact, we have had to have a question read back.
You took so much time conferring. Isn't that true ?
Dr. Furry. It has been pretty good, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Thank you.
Mr. Kearney. Well ; that is quite an admission from the witness —
that it has been pretty good.
Dr. Furry. Well ; my wife sometimes says the word "not bad" from
me is about the highest praise I ever give, sir.
Mr. Kearney. All right, proceed.
Mr. Clardy. You have exceeded that, then ?
Dr. Furry. I have exceeded that.
Mr. Tavenner. What I am trying to ascertain, Dr. Furry, is that,
whatever the effect was, you had decided before you came to this meet-
mg, to this hearing, you would not answer the question as to whether
or not you were at the present time a member of the Communist Party.
Dr. Furry. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Therefore, you refused to answer that question, but
at the same time you had prepared in advance, had you not, a state-
ment you proposed to give to the press, in which you were taking the
position that you were not at that time a member of the Communist
Party ; isn't that true ?
Dr. Furry. Yes, sir, and this statement to the press, of course, was
an entirely different sort of thing from any answer to the question
256 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
liere. It was followed, it's true, by some questions from some mem-
bers of the press ; but. these questions were not as skillful
Mr. Tavenner. Is that
Dr. Furry. As yours, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner (continuinjx). A copy of the statement you had pre-
pared for the press before you entere(l the hearinjz room?
Mr. Clardy. Has that been marked as an exhibit ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, and I ask it be marked "'Furry Exhibit No.
1"' for identification only at this time.
Ml-. Kearney. Let it be so marked.
(The statement of Dr. Wendell H. Furry was so marked "Furry
Exhibit No. 1" for identification.)
Dr. Furry. Well, sir, without readin<»: this, every word at o^'eat
care, and probably without comparing it with another copy, I couldn't
state that with absolute certainty, but it cerainly appears to me
Mr. Tavenner. To the best of your judgment
Dr. Furry. Yes; to the best of my judgment
Mr. Tavenner. It is a copy; in fact, it is the very copy which
you handed to the downtown office of the United Press, is it not?
Dr. Furry. Well, I certainly couldn't judge that.
Mr. Tavenner. Well
Dr. Furry. I agree it is quite possible.
Mr. Clardy. You wouldn't question counsel's word on that, would
you ?
Dr. Furry. I would see no reason to question counsel's word.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer the paper in evidence and ask it be marked
"Furry Exhibit No. 1."
Mr. Kearney. Received.
(The statement of Dr. Wendell H. Furry, previously marked
"Furry Exhibit No. 1" for identification, was received in evidence as
"Furry Exhibit No. 1.'')
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you testified, Dr. Furry, Avhen you refused
to answer the question before this committee that in your refusal to
answer the question you were relying upon the fifth amendment and
you were afraid or would have reason to fear that to answer that ques-
tion truthfully would tend to incriminate you. That was the ground
that you had asserted, or one of the grounds you had asserted.
Dr. Furry. I asserted the grounds, sir, of the fifth amendment not
to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Dr. Furry. Now, this question had in itself a dangerous nature.
The setting, both right here and in general, appears to me to be such
and the sort of questions wliich might follow it — the things that might
come out of it — and you must remember that I alread}^ had appeared
in a closed hearing before the committee, and I had some notion of
what might follow, and the situation I was in — my own personal
situation — 1 felt, after having secured the legal advice of counsel, and
i still feel, I was entirely justified in refusing to answer this ques-
tion
Mr. Tavenner. \]] right ; now
Dr. Furry. At the time.
Mr. Tavenner. Let's review that situation. You decided, before
coming to the hearing, that you were not going to answer that ques-
tion. V'ou came to the liearing and you relied on the fifth amend-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 257
meiit — that tlie ansAver mio-lit tend to incriminate you — and, yet, at the
same time you had prepared in advance a statement to give to the pub-
lice, your oAvn typewritten statement, which could be iised in evidence
against you.
Dr. FuKKY. It was not a sworn statement, sir.
Mr, Tavexxek. It was not a sworn statement, but it was a statement
and was evidence which could be used against you. In other words,
the point I am making is: You absohitely did not rely on the fifth
amendment when you refused to testify here.
Dr. P'uRRY. I did rely on the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Tavexxer. You did in words, but actually you were not in fear
of any criminal jjroseeution when you went out to the press and gave
them a written statement of the same thing the committee was asking
you about. -
Dr. Furry. By ansAveriiig that question to the press, I did not sub-
mit n^yself to further questioning. I did not place myself as a wit-
ness at the disposal of counsel for further interrogation.
Mr. Tavex^xer. Now, then
Dr. Furry. That's probably one aspect of it, but that certainly was
an aspect that was lively in my mind.
Mr. Tavexxer. Now, the matter of pleading or relying upon the
fifth amendment, the good faith involved in it, is a matter of great
importance and if you had such little good faith in resorting to that
amendment, under the circumstances, which have been shown here,
how can we be certain that you are relying in good faith upon your
refusal to answer the questions as to what happened prior to March
5, 1951, at Harvard University with reference to the Communist
Party ?
Dr. Furry. The date I gave you was jNIarch 1, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. March i, 1951.
Dr. Furry. Sir, my reliance on the fifth amendment on that occa-
sion was in absolute good faith. It depends on my personal situa-
tion and on what I could anticipate might come out of that question.
I realize that I have now answered it. I have now given a chance
for further questioning.
You gentlemen have, as was brought out a moment ago. been pretty
considerate with me. but I feel, in view of what might come from it,
I was entirely justified in relying on the fifth amendment on that
occasion.
Mr. Tavex'xer. How could a person be justified in relying on the
fifth amendment when he had already ]>re])ared in advance a state-
ment of the same answer to the same question to be presented in
writing for public dissemination i How could such a thing have been
done in good faith i
Dr. Furry. Sir, I have certainly not said that answer was directly
incriminating.
Mr. Tavexxer. Well
Dr. Furry. Also that was not a sworn statement.
Mr. Tavexxer. All right, then, is the same thing true with reference
to your ]M)sition with regard to what occurred at Harvard prior
to March 1, 1051, with reference to the Communist Party?
Let's judge that situation under the same standards that you judge
your action with reference to your present Communist Party mem-
bership. Is it the same?
258 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
(At this point Kepresentative Harold H. Velde reentered the hear-
ing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Are you adopting
Dr. Furry. Sir
iVIr. Tavenner. Excuse me.
Dr. Furry. I am quite sure I have the right of the fifth amendment
on that question, as I am also quite sure I had it on the preceding one.
Mr. Tavenner. But you were not actually truthful to this commit-
tee, were you, when you said you were in fear of criminal prosecution,
which is the effect of your pleading, resorting to the fifth amendment,
if, as a matter of fact, you were giving the same information to the
public on your own typewritten paper?
Dr. Furry. Now, Mr. Tavenner, I am not an authority on the
law; but I have been talking to various authorities on the law. I
cannot state eloquently or in detail what the broad meaning of the
privilege of the fifth amendment is, but I certainly understand that it
covers more than simply directly incriminating statements, and I am
convinced I had the privilege, and that I have it now.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, how can this committee, in light of your testi-
mony with regard to that, be convinced that you are testifying in good
faith when you say you have not been a member of the Communist
Party for the past 2 years ?
Dr. Furry. Sir
Mr. Tavenner. Is there any evidence you can give us?
Dr. Furry. That is a true statement, and I have made it under oath,
subject to the usual penalties.
Mr. Tavenner. But you are not willing to go into particulars?
Dr. Furry. You mean
Mr. Tavenner. Let me put the question this way : There has been
established here by evidence, which is not disputed, a sworn state-
ment of a number of witnesses, that this Communist Party cell was or-
ganized within the teaching profession at Harvard; that there were
12 to 15 members of it ; that you were one of them.
Now, you are telling us that for the past 2 years you have not been a
member of the Communist Party. Under those circumstances, don't
you think there is an obligation on your part to convince the commit-
tee, or give it some facts upon which it might rest its opinion, that you
had actually withdrawn from the Communist Party, having been
sliown you were a member at one time ?
Dr. Furry. Sir, I don't know what these facts could be. I've been
busy in the work of my profession, very busy, for a number of years
past, and the work of my profession is such that politics doesn't enter
into it.
Mr. Tavenner. All right, I think I can help you probably on that.
Since March 1, 1951, have you conferred with any Communist Party
group in a Communist Party meeting?
Dr. Furry. I have not.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. You have not.
Well, what course was followed by you when you withdrew from the
Communist Party, if you contend you withdrew?
Dr. Furry. Sir, that is a question that contains an implication, and
I will not answer it under the grounds I have stated already, consti-
tutional grounds.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 259
Mr. Tavenner. Now, we have learned from a number of witnesses,
Dr. Furry, a rather peculiar situation has existed with reference to
certain individuals. Lee Pressman was one. Lee Pressman testified
at a certain date he withdrew "organizationally" — that was his lan-
guage—from the Communist Party. That did not necessarily mean
that his severance was full and complete in every respect.
Now, I want to know whether there is any distinction or qualifica-
tion of that character with regard to you, it having been shown by
this evidence, which is undisputed, that you were at one time a
member.
Dr. Furry. With regard to my answer that I have not been a mem-
ber of the Communist Party in the last 2 years, there is no such mean-
ing or implication whatever, sir.
Mr. Clardt. Counsel, I have a question at that juncture.
You have named an exact date — March 1, 1951. Wliat act on your
part took place on that date that enables you to select that as the spe-
cific beginning of the period during which you say you have not been
a Communist?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. FuERT. Sir, I haven't given any indication in my testimony
that any activity took place on that date, or before it. I have simply
said I will give the answer to the question back to that date and I will
invoke the constitutional privilege before that date.
Mr. Clardy. Then why do you select such an exact date as March
1, 1951, if it does not have some specific meaning?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. Sir, that is simply the date I am willing to testify on
Avithout using the privilege.
Mr. Clardy. Well, my question is : Why did you select the date ?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. Well, I was asked to specify more precisely some time.
1 did specify precisely.
Mr. Clardy. Yes. I asked you how far back you would go
Dr. Furry. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. In the period you were willing to cover by your state-
ment you were not a Communist, and you selected an exact date. Now,
I am trying to get at this : Something must have happened that you
now recall that fixes that March date as the beginning of the period,
and what I am seeking to find is : What took place on or about March 1
that enabled you to single that specific period out, or that specific date
out?
Dr. Furry. Sir, I am not indicating that anything took place at
that time.
Mr. Clardy. Did anything take place?
You say you are not indicating. Did anything take place ?
(At this point Dr. Furry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Kearney. Would you have selected just as well the date of
February 1?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr." Kearney. Or February 27?
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question.
260 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Kkarney. You can select March 1.
Doctor, what is your definition of an outspoken liberal ?
Dr. Furry. Well, it's a person who, in general, has liberal views
and who is willing to say so to anybody.
Mr. Kearney. Even though it included membership in the Com-
munist Party ^
Dr. Furry. That is not part of my definition, sir.
Ml'. Kearney. Well, I am reading now from your statement that
was issued to the press on February 26, 1953 :
The attack on me had its inaiii source, I believe, in my record as an out-
spoken liberal. My sentiments have always been well known to my colleagues
and friends, and to many others. I never concealed them, and am still proud
of them and convinced of their essential ri,i,ditness.
Your testimony this morning wouldn't indicate you are following
out your own thoughts in that paragraph, would it?
D1-. Furry. Sir, I am not ashamed of my sentiments, as I indicated
in my previous testimony.
Mr. Kearney. But even as far as those sentiments, political or
otherwise, are concerned, in your own mind, that causes you to refuse
to answer certain questions about your affiliation with the Communist
Party?
Dr. Furry. What do you mean "causes" me, sir, to do something?
]\Ir. Kearney. Well, just look over the record of your testimony
here. You have declined to answer certain questions on the grounds
that it might incriminate you
Dr. Furry. I have not refused
Mr. Kearney. And sought refuge under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution of the United States.
Dr. Furry'. I have not refused to answer any questions about my
public utterances or statements I have signed, or anything like that.
Mr. Kearney. All right, now, wnth reference to your ])ublic utter-
ances, have 3^ou ever spoken before a Connnmiist Party group in this
country ?
Dr. Furry. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. Then, you ai'e not truthful in your former answer,
are you ?
Dr. FuiiRY'. If such a speech were given, it would not be a public
utterance.
Mr. Kearney. It would be a private utterance before a group of
individuals who were and are concealed members of the Communist
Party; isn't that so?
Dr. FuRRY'. Probably.
Mr. Kearney. Is there any question about it in your mind?
Dr. Furry. I can't claim to be an ex})ert on these things.
Mr. Kearney. That is after March 1.
Dr. Furry. At any time.
]Mr. Kearney. How about Februaiy 27 ?
Dr. FuRRY'. I can't claim to be an expert on these matters at any
time.
Mr. Kearney. Prior to February 27, have you ever addressed any
Coimnunist Party cell in this cotmtry, either at Harvard or any other
place ?
Mr. Tavenner. What year ?
Mr. Kearney. 1951.
tr.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 261
Dr. Furry. I refuse to answer that question on the constitutional
Cfrounds.
Mv. Kearney. In other words, Doctor, in order to shorten this
hearing-, I get tlie impression — and you correct nie if I am wrong —
that you came back here today, before this committee, on your own
request, but that request contained a particuhir affidavit, one sentence
of which was that you have not been a member of the Communist
Party for at least 2 years — the other sentence was that you know of
no existence of a Communist Party cell at Harvard today — that as
far as any other questions concerning your aifiliation with the Com-
munist Party is concerned, you decline to answer?
Dr. P'uERY. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kearney. Well, Mr. Counsel, 1 don't see the sense of this com-
mittee wasting the time of the good doctor or the members of the
committee.
I am frank to say. Doctor, that your testimony this morning leaves
me with the same impression that it did wlien you previously testi-
fied here and that testimony is unworthy of belief.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. ]May I ask him just one question, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Moulder. I have one more
Mr. Clardy. I have one I would like to ask you. Doctor: Is it in
your mind that an admission by you or anyone else of either past or
present membership in the Communist Party — that, and that alone —
would incriminate them in some way ?
Dr. Furry. That is not my belief, sir, but that is also not my belief
of what the protection of the fifth amendment amounts to.
Mr. Clardy. "Well, then, is it a fair assumption on my part that,
in invoking the fifth amendment, it has to do with some other sub-
ject, other than membership in the Communist Party, as well as
membership ?
Dr. Furry. Sir, the fifth amendment ]H'otects a person against being
a witness against himself and, although I by no means know much
about legal matters, I know the interpretation of this is very broad
and means that anything that might play a part
Mr. Cl.\rdy. Well, I wasn't asking that.
Dr. Furry. In any way in constructing a criminal accusation
Mr. Clardy. I wasn't
Dr. Fl^kry. Or carrying on a criminal prosecution is covered.
Mr. Clardy. Well, we are all lawyers up here
Dr. Furry. O. K.
Mr. Clardy. And you can depend on us having some understanding
of that, and that was not my question. My question was : In invoking
the fifth amendment here today and in prior hearings, is there some
apprehension on your mind that you might incriminate yourself in
some other way than an admission in the Communist Party ?
Dr. Furry. The apprehension is that an accusation might take place.
Mr. Clardy. A what ?
Dr. Furry. An accusation of a criminal act against me might occur,
might be made.
Mr. Clardy. Did that have some relationship to the Comnnmist
conspiracy against the Nation?
(At this point Dr. P\irry conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Dr. Furry. Sir, I can't — I can't explain the whole situation
Mr. Clardy. I am not
262 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. Furry. To you.
Mr. Clardy. Asking you to.
Dr. Furry. I have the privilege of the fifth amendment against
•explaining the whole thing.
Mr. Clakdy. Are you refusing to answer
Dr. Furry. I am refusing to answer.
Mr. Clardy. To finish this up ?
Dr. Furry. I am refusing to explain my whole situation. That is
•quite plain.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. I have one question: Since the 1st of March 1951,
"have you arrived at or formed an opinion of the approval or disap-
proval of the philosophy and objectives of the Communist Party dif-
ferent from your opinion or sentiments held by you prior to the 1st
day of March 1951, in that respect ?
Dr. Furry. I would say, sir, my opinions on this subject, so far as
they exist, are in probably a constant state of change and that they
have been uncertain and subject to change through this whole period.
Mr. Moulder. The reason I am asking that question is in view of
your statement during the past 2 years or since the 1st day of March
you haven't been a member of the Communist Party, and I am try-
ing to determine whether or not your ideas and your opinions and
your own philosophy in respect to the Communist Party and its ob-
jectives have changed from that which you held or the sentiments
which you had prior to the 1st day of March 1952.
Dr. Furry. I've told you that they probably are changing all the
time, and I think
Mr. Moulder. Well, that question has
Dr. Furry. They have probably
Mr. Moulder. Given you an opportunity
Dr. Furry. Changed since then.
Mr. Moulder. To redeem yourself, not only on the technical gi'ounds
you claim here but also in your own heart as to what you believe ; and
if you refuse to answer that, it leads us to only one conclusion.
Dr. Furry. I didn't refuse to answer it. I told you I thought they
were rather continuously changing, subject to other influence.
Mr. Velde. Well, Doctor, are they changing toward you having more
sentiment for Soviet Russia and the Communist Party or against
Soviet Russia and the Communist Party ?
Dr. Furry. Well, Mr. Velde, everything I read in the press is pretty
much against it, and I think I stated in previous testimony that I dis-
count some of that; but I suppose some of it is true, and I think the
influence is pretty much toward making me less favorable.
Mr. Clardy. Then, you do not today approve of the aims and ob-
jectives of the Communist Party?
Dr. Furry. I feel I have very little acquaintance with them today,
sir; but if they are what they are represented in the press, I would
disapprove them heartily.
Mr. Kearney. The committee will adjourn until 10:30 tomorrow
morning.
Dr. Furry. Am I dismissed, sir?
Mr. Kearney. You certainly are, Doctor.
(Wliereupon, at 11 : 41 a. m., the hearing was adjourned until 10 : 30
:a. m., Friday, April 17, 1953.)
INDEX
Individuals
Page-
Achesou 200
Allen, Oliver S lGl-178
Arnold, Thurman 213, 214,219
Berge 220
Bergsom, H. A 220
Boiidiu, Leonard B 126, 127, 179-221
Bowers 193,194
Breit, Gregory 132, 133
Brown, Gerald Edward 132, 138
Brown, Jerry 232
Burling 20O
Carusi, Ugo 201, 218
Chayman 135, 139, 140
Clark, Charles Lindsey 237
Clark, Tom 219
Conlon, Mary 24&
Cort, Joseph 230, 231
Corwin, Edward S 207,208
Covington 200-
Cumuaings, Homer 184
Darling, Byron Thorwell 129-154 (testimony)
Davis Robert G 156, 166-168
Dickinson, Edwin 201
Dontzin, Ben 232
Douglas, Dorothy W 154-159 (testimony) 166,168
Douglas, Justice 228
Edwards, C. L 212
Emerson, Thomas I 217-219
Fahy, Charles 201
Feldman, Armand Labis 201,202,204,206,207.212
Fenn, R. J 211,212:
Fine. Daniel 223-243 (testimony)
Flynn, Hulda Rees (nee Hulda Johnson Rees; see also Hulda Mc-
Garvey) 156, 161-178 (testimony)
Flynn, John P I6.5.
Forer, Joseph 129-154, 245-262
Furry, Wendell Hinkle 245-262 (testimony)
Glasser, Abraham 125-127 ( testimony ). 179-221 (testimony)
Golos, Jacob I57
Hartman, Fannie 165
Holtzoff. Alexander 198, 217
Horsky, Charles A 220
Jackson, Robert H 184, 197
Kerner, William ' 232
Lattimore, Owen 229
London, Ephraim 154-159
Lumpkin. Katherine 156, 166
McGarvey. Hulda {see also Hulda Rees Flynn) 156,162.165,166,168
McGranery. James P 217-219,221
McGuire, Matthew F 197^198
Meyer, Agnes ' 24.3
263
264 INDEX
Page
Mi(l..uick 206
Moncharsh. George :^-"
Murphy- Frank |°J
Nichols, Congressman |°°
Nielsen, Professor___^ }-^^
O'Hair. Richard F jqo
Ovaldmian ^Y^
IVrliii, Marshall HI
IMiUbrk'k, Herbert ^^^
I'dlninbaum, Nina ^^^
I'olumbaum, Ted ^-
I'ressman, Lee -'^'■^
Rees, Ilulda Johnson. (See Hulda Rees Flynn ; Hulda McUarvey.)
Uobe'son. Paul 238, 239
Rubenstein, William ^^-
Rumely ^^^
Russo, Mike -^^
Snrincrer '
S?ern:Ni^;i^__: 199, 204, 205
Weinberg. Joseph l-*^- ^^^' f'^^
Welner, William ^^
AVilliams, Professor ^^^
Woerner. Hal ™
"X,- Mr 1^' 2^4
Zilsel. Paul l''^2, 133
ORGANIZATIONS
American Federation of Teachers |56
American Physical Society j'^^
Amherst College 1^<S
Associated Press ■- ~'^l^
Aurora Conference l'^^, irfo
Bryn Mawr College 1;^^
Calco Chemical Co -^'*
Chemical Bank_____-__ f^
Civil Service Commission ^"^^ ^'^^ f^'^
Civil Service Loyalty Rating Board --—"V^'o^i^po ^-n
Columbia University lo-^' lo2, Ibd, 1(0
(^rane Technical High School ^f^
Department of Justice 1'^' ^f*^'
184, 187, 191, 192, 196-201, 204-208. 212-215, 218-220
Federal Bureau of Investigation i«q i-n
George Washington University l"''- 1'''
(ierman-American Bund }^'^
Harvard Corporation ""~;^„,^ .";„^
Harvard University 167, 246-249, 251, 253, 254, 257, 2o8, 2b0, 261
John Reed Club 233
Massachusetts Federation of Teachers 1"°
Michigan State College 130-132, 135, 147, 148. 153
xMouni Holyoke College i!^
National Federation of Teachers 1^
Naval Medical Research Institute ilo
Navy __ I*-
Navy Department ,^^!;
Notre Dame University '-'„ "^ot!
Office of Price Administration 183,205,208,214,215,21.-220
Office of Surplus Properties --**
( KiPU !•'•'
Oliio State University 130.131,135,137,142
Pennsylvania St:ite College 1^1' l-^-^
Peter Bent Brigham Hospital '-24
Princeton Graduate School 1^
Princeton University -^
INDEX 265
Page
Radcliffe College 155
Rutgers University 183, 206, 221
liutgers University School of Law 221
Samuel Adams Scliool 165, 166, 168, 169
Sheffield Seientitic Scliool 224
Simmons CoUece 168
Smith College 155, 156, 162, 163, 166-168
State Federation of Teachers 167
Supreme Court of the United States 209, 211, 215, 218
Teachers' Union 167, 168
United Press 256
United States Air Force 135-137,139,142,152
United States Rubber Co 132,151
University of Connecticut 132
University of Illinois 130, 153
University of .Michi.tran 130, 153
University of Wisconsin 130-132, 134, 150, 153
Wellesley College 168
Western Electric Co 132
World Tourists, Inc 157
WQQW Radio Station 166
Yale School of Medicine 224,231,238
Yale University 131-133, 153, 224, 230-232, 237
Publications
Boston Post 246, 247
Daily Worker__^ 231, 237
Physical Review 143
Sundiiy Worker 231
X
